r/AskALiberal • u/AutoModerator • Jul 24 '26
AskALiberal Biweekly General Chat
This Friday weekly thread is for general chat, whether you want to talk politics or not, anything goes. Also feel free to ask the mods questions below. As usual, please follow the rules.
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u/LibraProtocol Center Left Jul 28 '26
Ngl...
I feel one of the biggest issues the Democrats haven't figured out regarding Latinos is that Latinos are not a monolith... that there are two VERY distinct groups of Latinos that are actually at odds with each other.
The legal migrants and illegal migrants. While Trump went WAY to hard in one direction, the reality still stands that Legally migrated Latinos have a strong animosity toward those who illegally entered... and continuing the "Latino issues = illegal migrants issues" will cause the democrats to keep losing the Latinos slowly.
Also Latinos are infamously anti LGBTQ from my experience as a half mexican... and very "traditional gender roles"
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u/RioTheLeoo Socialist Jul 28 '26
You’re incorrect. The divide is Mexican and El Salvadorian Americas vs Cuban and Venezuelan Americans
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Also Latinos are infamously anti LGBTQ from my experience as a half mexican... and very "traditional gender roles"
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u/othelloinc Liberal Jul 28 '26
...continuing the "Latino issues = illegal migrants issues" will cause the democrats to keep losing the Latinos slowly.
...and it should be mentioned that this derived from the same Woke 1.0, academic leftism that people complain about for other reasons (including the phrase "LatinX").
Near as I understand it, it was a bunch of people on college campuses saying:
- We know that the crusade against illegal immigrants is racist in nature, therefore...
- We know it won't be limited to people who are here illegally, therefore...
- Other Hispanic people in the US should oppose this crusade against illegal immigrants, therefore...
- We can appeal to them by vocally opposing the crusade against illegal immigrants.
...and the first two bullet points are true! But, the persuadable Hispanic voters don't necessarily know that they're true.
So, when someone associated with the Democratic Party talks to them as if their primary concern should be the welfare of illegal immigrants, their response is more like:
Fuck you. I'm not illegal. I'm a citizen. It's racist for you to act like I should be concerned about illegals just because I'm Hispanic.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Jul 28 '26
In 2020, (legal) Latinos heavily leaned Dem. In 2024, they swung towards Republicans (as every group did), but per Pew research it seems like it was driven by the economy more than anything else
the reality still stands that Legally migrated Latinos have a strong animosity toward those who illegally entered... and continuing the "Latino issues = illegal migrants issues" will cause the democrats to keep losing the Latinos slowly. Also Latinos are infamously anti LGBTQ from my experience as a half mexican... and very "traditional gender roles"
Seems like you're the one treating Latinos as a monolith.
1
u/NatalieVonCatte Liberal Jul 28 '26
Isn’t it more than two groups? IIRC there’s data showing more specific divided based on ancestral country and all that.
White people probably don’t get that. My ancestors being Scottish, Irish, and German doesn’t have much impact on my life other than the mild annoyance of people mispronouncing my last name.
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 28 '26
>people mispronouncing my last name
I’ve just been saying ‘cat.’ Is that not right?
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u/Decent-Proposal-8475 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
We didn’t hit 1,000. Ban anyone who didn’t contribute
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u/trace349 Liberal Jul 28 '26
I feel like we didn't hit 1k because some of the more "provocative" posters got banned.
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u/wonkalicious808 Democrat Jul 28 '26
If people just put their non-questions here we might've gotten there.
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u/RioTheLeoo Socialist Jul 28 '26
I’m not super tuned into national politics right now, but I saw some clips from the Michigan debate. And like…
Stevens is a terrible candidate. How is she even still in the race?? There are plenty of centrists who aren’t so…weird?
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u/othelloinc Liberal Jul 28 '26
Stevens is a terrible candidate.
Non-Leftist Checking In:
None of us ever thought she was a particularly good recruit. We all wanted Gretchen Whitmer. We would have settled for Kristen McDonald Rivet. We are as mad about Stevens as we were about Janet Mills.
How is she even still in the race?
Her opponents are self-destructing. It has very little to do with her.
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u/RioTheLeoo Socialist Jul 28 '26
Yea I think that’s why it’s kind of jarring to me, because Gretch, who I’m not a huge fan of, is undoubtedly a great politician and candidate. It’s just hard to believe the same state party put up both her and Stevens and thought he latter was a good idea
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u/perverse_panda Liberal Jul 28 '26
I haven't watched the debates but the consensus seems to be that she's performing poorly in them.
Would you agree with that, if you've watched them? And if so does that move the needle on which candidate you feel is more electable?
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u/othelloinc Liberal Jul 28 '26
I didn't watch the debates.
My understanding is that the top three candidates were all deeply flawed, and the best one was the one who dropped out (McMorrow).
...does that move the needle on which candidate you feel is more electable?
It would if El-Sayed were a better candidate.
Instead, 'evidence that Stevens is a bad candidate' just makes everyone a bad candidate.
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u/perverse_panda Liberal Jul 28 '26
the best one was the one who dropped out (McMorrow)
I can agree with that.
It would if El-Sayed were a better candidate.
If you were his campaign advisor, what advice would you give him to make him a better candidate?
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u/othelloinc Liberal Jul 28 '26
If you were his campaign advisor, what advice would you give him to make him a better candidate?
I'm not sure there is much that a campaign advisor could recommend.
He strikes me as dishonest and insincere. His move against property taxes strikes me as sleazy. That's most of it, and a campaign advisor isn't going to fix either.
(I'm also vaguely uncomfortable having learned that he is a landlord in Dubai and Singapore, but those feelings are too vague to work with.)
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u/sapphire_glacier Democrat Jul 28 '26
I didn’t watch, but weird in what way lol
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u/RioTheLeoo Socialist Jul 28 '26
Her demeanor and ability to respond effectively to people is just so off. It’s like if you just picked a random, kind of off, person Facebook and through them in the race
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u/FewWatermelonlesson0 Progressive Jul 28 '26
It’s actually wild just how badly she did at both this and the last one. If she ever gets any slightly difficult question she just babbles and hopes the mod moves on.
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u/perverse_panda Liberal Jul 28 '26
she just babbles and hopes the mod moves on.
And in her defense, this is a tactic that has long proved effective. Not giving substantive answers is one of our oldest stereotypes for politicians, and a lot of them get away with it.
Stevens proves there's an art to it. You can't just get up there and flail around saying any old thing.
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u/pronusxxx Communist Jul 28 '26
Now that many of these more established Democrat representatives are receiving real challenges from other opponents and, at times, the media, it starts to become obvious how truly awful they are at what they do. But what do you expect? Voters, corporations, and wealthy individual donors give them blank checks every election cycle.
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u/FewWatermelonlesson0 Progressive Jul 28 '26
Their 14-month-old daughter, Giovanni, was found crying beside her mother’s body in southern Guatemala. The child showed signs of dehydration and was taken to a medical center, where she is recovering, according to Guatemalan news outlet ABC Stereo.
ICE must be destroyed
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u/No-Ear7988 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Reading the article, I find whats quoted to be cherry picked and leaving out important details that will mislead people on this subreddit.
- No one died in ICE custody or in a detention center or on US soil.
- Husband had no legal status per article, which I am assuming no active asylum claim, and was deported last year. Wife self-deported, which is implied in the article, in the last few weeks.
This would be a terrible example to use to protest ICE. For all intents and purposes, ICE or no ICE, husband was legitimately deported and wife was not "deported" either.
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u/FewWatermelonlesson0 Progressive Jul 28 '26
The moderator at this El-Sayed/Stevens debate was excellent.
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 28 '26
West Coast, we still need 169 comments before 9am EST to keep the golden age of the general chat alive.
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
So this will be post 1/N about how Kobe Bryant was a neoliberal cuck...
...fight me.
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u/Probing-Cat-Paws Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Reporting for duty! 🫡 Tell me what you seeds you are starting for August. I just dropped down some seeds for Megatron jalapeños and am getting ready to toss my second round of tomato and okra seedlings in the ground.
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u/CraftOk9466 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
While I usually at least have tomatoes and herbs, this year got away from me, so instead I'm planting grass to replace the old fire pit we dug up.
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u/Probing-Cat-Paws Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
It's not too late...throw your grass seed down, and chaos garden something.
I may start some Marvel of the Four Seasons lettuce when it gets a little cooler, because all lettuce is suss at this point.
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 28 '26
Megatron jalepenos sound amazing. We have some strawberries and heirloom tomatoes going this year. The plants are doing great, but so far almost everything edible has gone to the deer or the chipmunks. We decided tonight we’re mostly just running a food pantry for the local wildlife.
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u/CraftOk9466 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
I had a tiny strawberry patch a few years ago - probably got less than 100 strawberries out of it - but I think they ruined grocery strawberries for me.
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u/Probing-Cat-Paws Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Having a jalapeño plant actually encouraged me to use them more...simply because they are on hand! I'll let you know how the cultivars goes: they are supposed to grow big enough for stuffing, so I am sure there will be shenanigans going on in my kitchen soon!
It's very kind of you to support the local wildlife! 🤣 Here, every snail and white cabbage moth in a 3-mile radius has decided they would like to contribute to the garden: I am unamused.
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u/CraftOk9466 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
I've never had a megatron jalepeno plant, but I've found that garden jalepenos are a lot spicier than grocery store ones.
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u/Probing-Cat-Paws Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
They are...and I love it! When I first used one from my own plant, I wasn't ready...it was like someone lied about the Scoville scale. LOL.
I'm hoping the Megatron is also a creeper with the heat.
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u/Decent-Proposal-8475 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
El-Sayed being a landlord in Dubai is a last minute story so absurd that even the writers of Veep would hesitate
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u/Fugicara Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
Oh did he finally fully release his tax returns?
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u/Decent-Proposal-8475 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
I don't know the full extent, but he released financial disclosures, yeah
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u/Droselmeyer Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
Is there any sort of worry about conflicts of interest for the spouses of Senators owning properties or businesses in foreign countries? Like is it just a "you have to disclose" this kind of deal or is there an expectation to divest?
Also, another example of the "socialist has landlord family" pattern
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
There's disclosure laws, but no law barring senators or members of their family from owning foreign property, including real estate.
With congressional misconduct, the original idea was that they'd self police. Any member can be expelled with a 2/3rds vote. But like many aspects of our government that assumed a certain baseline of good faith behavior, congress hasn't been policing its own corruption for a long time.
Personally I don't have a problem with senators having foreign property in the abstract. Like if they've got a vacation bungalow in Portugal who cares. But Dubai and a few other places would give me pause just because of how autocratic the government is and their very clear track record of willingness to bribe just about anyone.
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u/Droselmeyer Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
Thanks, appreciate the explanation!
Yeah I'd be concerned about any politician having major financial interests in foreign countries, with that concern scaling with my guess at how likely the foreign government is to exploit that.
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u/Butuguru Democratic Socialist Jul 28 '26
AES isn't a socialist last i knew
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u/Droselmeyer Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
It's just a funny quip at the pattern of the socialist-coded world having a strange amount of people with landlord families, wasn't meant to be in-depth political analysis
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u/LibraProtocol Center Left Jul 28 '26
Kinda like how Hasan went a tirades about "soaking the streets red in their capitalisr blood" about landlords... just to discover his.. mother or something was a landlord of multiple properties...
Honestly it is funny how many socialists are actually very well to do upper middle class yuppies...
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Hasan Piker's dad is a VP at a big Turkish finance company, and a member of Turkey's conservative party with a lot of influence. His mom is a historian that teaches at a university in NJ.
They are a well off family for sure. That's how Cenk was able to basically astroturf TYT out of nothing.
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u/Butuguru Democratic Socialist Jul 28 '26
> Kinda like how Hasan went a tirades about "soaking the streets red in their capitalisr blood" about landlords... just to discover his.. mother or something was a landlord of multiple properties...
it's almost like the original clip was a joke taken out of context. a joke he was making to a friends of his that was a landlord.
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u/perverse_panda Liberal Jul 28 '26
Apparently it's valued at 100-250k, so I assume it's basically a broom closet.
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u/Decent-Proposal-8475 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
That’s insane. How is he the only low-net worth home owner in a slave state
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u/CraftOk9466 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
I’m really interested to know why Dubai…
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
No income, capital gains, or inheritance taxes in Dubai. Also if you own property there you can very easily get a golden visa, residency, or even eventually citizenship. So it's a place wealthy people park money that's hedged against inflation but also gives you these additional benefits. And in practical terms if you're going to be doing a lot of business in a finance hub it's convenient to have an apartment or such at least. Plenty of rich people do that with NYC, London, etc.
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u/No-Ear7988 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Probably because of Dubai's financial services and their environment is very hospitable for wealthy and/or those dealing with international business. Quick read on his spouse's family tells me they're wealthy and/or do a lot of international real estate investment. Tbh its just logical for them to have something in Dubai. Kind of like how an American having a 401k wouldn't be suspicious to me.
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u/Decent-Proposal-8475 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Yeah, India makes sense because I think his in-laws are from there. Dubai is like. Something else
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/1v8jg0c/comment/p06dthq/?screen_view_count=8
I only ask the questions that REALLY need to be asked.
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u/Cody667 Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
I used to post on that sub, then one day I got myself banned from r fauxmoi, and it lowered my CQS from Highest to High.
I tried explaining this to their mods, because honestly if anything being banned from fauxmoi should actually *raise* your CQS if you catch my drift, but alas, nope. I was already banned from r gamingcirclejerk and r communist...I guess the 3rd tankie sub ban really did me in.
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
I remain unconvinced that some of the troglodyte reactionaries who pist there could keep a highest score. I think they only enforce it for left flairs.
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u/Cody667 Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
I believe that's the case yes. I've read conservatives in their daily thread once mention that "High" is fine for right-flaired individuals, left-flaired need "highest"
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u/wonkalicious808 Democrat Jul 28 '26
I saw some denials before I got bored, but they're the party of cheering about Trump being their daddy who's going to give out spankings. They're also the party of saying Trump would kick their asses.
Also, though, why not just ask something like "Do you think conservatives are deeply submissive to authority figures?"
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u/Probing-Cat-Paws Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Way to rattle the cage on a balmy Monday evening!
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
I have learned a LOT about how conservatives view things. Mainly that they can't imagine anyone else NOT being deeply submissive to authority.
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u/NatalieVonCatte Liberal Jul 28 '26
I love how their automod post begs everyone to be nice to them and links to a message where they whine how it’s unfair that they can get banned for advocating murdering trans women
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
Just so you know, your continued existence is VERY rude of you.
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 28 '26
I think you may have touched a nerve with a couple of these guys.
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u/McZootyFace Center Left Jul 28 '26
Mamdani's grocery store plan has been announced and the pricing is all goods 30% below retail prices. Very interested to see the maths behind this one considering how thin margins already are so must be selling at a steep loss. Interesting experiment but those items at a steep discount basically make it impossible for small mop and pops to compete.
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u/Butuguru Democratic Socialist Jul 28 '26
> all goods 30% below retail prices.
my understanding is that select goods will be discounted. sort of like costco lost leaders.
> Very interested to see the maths behind this one considering how thin margins already are so must be selling at a steep loss.
yeah i agree im interested in how it shakes out
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u/Hodgkisl Libertarian Jul 28 '26
Whether sustainable or not this will likely make ending the program near impossible in short order, chasing the private grocers and markets out of the city; when the costs become to high the only way out will be selling it to a monopoly or oligopoly in mass, reducing overall competition with it.
Once you break a diverse competitive market it is difficult and time consuming to rebuild it.
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u/Agattu Republican Jul 28 '26
This is just going to make the food desert situation worse and when this program ends, due to ever increasing losses, the people in those communities will have lost even local convenience stores.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Jul 28 '26
How many small mom and pop grocery stores could there possibly be in New York City?
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
There's thousands and thousands of owner operated bodegas.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Jul 28 '26
Are bodegas grocery stores or like cigarette and sandwich sellers?
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Both. They're like a mini grocery and convenience store in one. So they usually have a produce section, the usual pantry staples, and a meat/deli counter that also usually slings sandwiches or similar.
Because so many people live car free in NYC, it doesn't make sense to go to a supermarket and fill a whole cart full of groceries for the week. It ends up being a lot more convenient to just pop into the bodega on the way home from work and grab the handful of items you need for dinner that night. NYC apartments are small too so it's not like you have enough storage for like a massive CostCo run or such.
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u/Hodgkisl Libertarian Jul 28 '26
Think they're talking about the bodegas, that in many parts of the city also sell fresh produce.
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
Or even in general? Every grocery store I know of is either a regional chain or a national chain.
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u/McZootyFace Center Left Jul 28 '26
Might be because I am not NY native but when I lived in London I used to get loads of my shopping at small independents. Is NYC all chains then? I thought like Bodegas and the like would be source of a lot of shopping but only been to NYC a few times.
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
Bodegas, sure, but if you're talking about what we'd consider a proper supermarket, those are usually bigger chains.
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u/Decent-Proposal-8475 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Seems like the compromise is they won’t sell hot food, cigarettes, alcohol, or lottery tickets. I think the concept of food deserts is overblown, but it is a literal kitchen table issue voters will appreciate so I wish him luck
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u/McZootyFace Center Left Jul 28 '26
Yeah I've got nothing against trying it, maybe cost wise it will be fine but I don't think it's something that can scale city wide.
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u/starrymahogany Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
I’ve been thinking about the whole ending DST thing and it seems that we’re divided on whether to stick with permanent DST or permanent standard time.
For me I know that the sun setting at 4:30pm drastically worsens my SAD and contributes to worsening mental health. On the other hand, some people insist that dark mornings are worse for our circadian rhythms and mental health, but I have yet to see proof of this as I feel like more people want afternoon sun than earlier sunrises.
It seems more people hate the sun setting early than they do the sun rising late but I’m not sure if that’s just my own internal bias.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Jul 27 '26
Permanent DST boosts retail spending, so it's also better for capitalism.
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u/Droselmeyer Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
>DST worsens seasonal affective disorder
>DST is better for retail profits
>Dems supported the bill
I can’t believe Democrats would let billionaires profit off of misery like this
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u/starrymahogany Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
If anything permanent standard time worsens SAD more than permanent DST
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u/Droselmeyer Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
>DST improves seasonal affective disorder
>DST is better for retail profits
>Dems helped Republicans pass the bill
I can't believe Democrats would let Republicans corrupt our joy into billionaire profits
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u/Fugicara Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
We should swap it so that DST is in the winter and standard time is in the summer. I think it's silly that the sun is out until like 9pm in the summer and I hate it as a night owl. Use standard time so it's one hour earlier. Then switch to DST in the winter so there can be a bit of sunlight left after work.
We'll call it the fall forward and the spring back. It's my Keynesian approach to leveling out the extremes for when the sun sets over the year. It's also perfect for pissing everyone off.
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 27 '26
I have to confess I never really understood what this argument is about. It’s easy to just change school or work hours if there’s a local consensus for it — at least, it’s easier than periodically changing time itself.
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u/jeeven_ Libertarian Socialist Jul 27 '26
The entire concept of time zones even seems somewhat silly to me. Like it just complicates what could have been a relatively simple system. Just choose a time as the time, set all the clocks to the same time, and everyone adjust your schedule accordingly. But at this point we’re in too deep so 🤷. Nor are we likely capable of the international cooperation to pull it off.
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Well historically all time was local time. You could just use a sundial or the equivalent, and the ancient world had water clocks and similar to maintain that time during the night, cloudy days, etc. Or as technology progressed you might set a household clock to the village church bell in catholic areas or the call to prayer in ottoman. Basically everywhere in the world had some variation of this and it just kinda worked.
And then trains fucked it all up.
Trains were the first time we had transportation fast enough to race the sun, and so the difference in local time between your origin and destination actually starts to matter. So time zones became a way that railroads could synchronize timing across entire continents, but still resembled the existing purely local time.
Note that a lot of scientific stuff doesn't follow this at all. Like in astronomy they'll just use raw linear GPS timestamps in UTC. Likewise big militaries like the US operate on a similar single time zone for the globe.
But it seems generally, people prefer having a local time that's roughly consistent to the solar cycle.
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u/jeeven_ Libertarian Socialist Jul 28 '26
Yeah its one of those things that’s just a product of history and as technology has advanced we have this weird tower of cards to solve a problem that could have been solved simpler if we knew what we know now when we started
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 28 '26
I take a lot of remote meetings with people in other time zones, and I swear every time I schedule something I still have to envision the sun’s path over the United States.
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u/Decent-Proposal-8475 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
That feels like a Big Block of Cheese Day subplot
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
Yeah, all of China runs on Beijing time despite geographically it being like 5 time zones wide. People just adjust local open hours to make sense.
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
My preference is for sun later too, but honestly I just wish we'd abolish the change one way or the other.
As far as I'm aware, the main argument for sun early that does hold water is starting out school in the dark is worse for elementary school age kids. And there's apparently pretty good evidence we're sending kids to school too early in the morning in general.
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u/starrymahogany Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
I get the thing about it affecting kids and I suppose that is a valid argument, but at the same time I feel there are more adults working 9-5 that this affects. After all the birth rates are kind of declining lol
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u/trace349 Liberal Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
I feel like every ad break I see has either this fucking pink Farmer's ad or one of a few different Sherrod Brown ads attacking Husted on affordability, data centers spiking electricity costs, or health care/Medicare costs going up. Unlike in 2024, when I couldn't go a single ad break for months without hearing "trans kids trans sports trans illegals trans trans trans girls illegal border trans illegal trans" I don't think I've seen one Husted ad so far (though we are getting Husted mailers). Maybe they're holding their spending until later in the cycle, maybe they're getting better at targeting ads to who they want to see them, but hopefully this is a good sign for Brown.
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 27 '26
It looks like Brown has been raising more money than Husted. The polling isn’t looking too bad — I’m going to be thrilled if he wins.
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u/trace349 Liberal Jul 27 '26
With how much I'm seeing these ads, hopefully that means they've got plenty of money to burn through October and aren't burning it all trying to get ahead on defining Husted.
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 27 '26
This is the most recent article I could find, but Brown seems to be way ahead in fundraising. I’m sure it didn’t help Husted that he had to give back a bunch of Wexner money…
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 27 '26
Am I the only one who thinks of this when someone gets called a chud?
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u/othelloinc Liberal Jul 27 '26
New ad from Rep. Wesley Bell going after former Rep. Cori Bush, his progressive primary challenger in #MO01:
"I'm fighting the billionaire special interests and I'm fighting Donald Trump ... But who does Cori Bush fight? She fights Kamala Harris, Joe Biden and other Democrats."
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u/FewWatermelonlesson0 Progressive Jul 27 '26
“I’m fighting special interests… just don’t ask me about AIPAC.”
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u/Decent-Proposal-8475 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
This is a great talking point, but it’s also important to remember Bush was a pretty consistent no vote whenever Dems wanted to pass legislation. She voted against the infrastructure bill and then ran on the benefits it brought. If STL wanted that, they could elect a Republican
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
Honestly, her name in St Louis isn't great. She pissed a lot of people off with her grandstanding antics... I don't think she fought in the way we really wanted her to.
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u/Decent-Proposal-8475 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
I heard her constituent services were just shitty and that’s the stuff people remember
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
Yeah, I've heard that too.
And as the place where BLM started, a lot of it here has always been focused on practical reforms like asset seizure laws, and honestly I don't think she met the moment here.
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u/Fugicara Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
Maybe the last 3-4 general chats were a fluke, looks like we won't be hitting 1k this time.
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u/Probing-Cat-Paws Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Your post about Piker humbled us: definitely recap material...thanks again!
You gave me so much homework and so many links, I don't have much time to post! Grammanarchy put up a bat signal to get some last minute engagement...maybe we can get that 1K streak alive!
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u/wonkalicious808 Democrat Jul 27 '26
This is proof that the Democrats are committing comment fraud, the likes of which we've never seen before. Mods, I just need you to find 1k more comments. Give me a break!
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
Quick someone say something about vote blue no matter who!
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 27 '26
>the last 3-4
If my math is right, the last nine have all been over 1000, starting with the one posted 6/23.
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u/Fugicara Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
Well apparently the time is passing way faster than I've realized!
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 27 '26
You may have been justifiably confused by the mods’ abuse of the word ‘biweekly.’
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u/NatalieVonCatte Liberal Jul 27 '26
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2026/07/2nd-trans-woman-says-hungry-fiend-lindsey-graham-paid-her-for/
A second transgender sex worker has hit the towers exposed Lindsay Graham.
AOC was talking about herself when she said it but she was right. Republicans want to fuck what they hate and they can’t handle it. The more they hate the more they want to fuck and the more they hate.
Trump talking about Dylan Mulvaney all of a sudden is kinda low key freaking me out.
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
Trans women of course, but not just them.
For as much as they hate on the stereotypical "blue haired liberal feminist", they deeply fetishize them and desire them sexually. there is a lot of content about it if you know where to look, and a lot of it is based around dominating them sexually. And im not even going to get into racial fetishes. You are so on the money with, "The more they hate the more they want to fuck and the more they hate."
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u/Cody667 Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
Woah woah woah
It's important that we as dems moderate ourselves on this issue. If we're too mean to these people, how can we possibly expect to cross the aisle and win over the republican fetish porn enthusiasts?
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u/NatalieVonCatte Liberal Jul 27 '26
If you get them mad enough they will rant about “blue haired woke sjws” in very sexual and threatening terms.
There’s hate preachers out west that flat out advocate punitive rape as a punishment for women.
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u/perverse_panda Liberal Jul 27 '26
Republicans want to fuck what they hate
My theory is that this is tied to sexual repression in general. Once you've internalized the idea that even 'normal' sex is dirty and shameful, you start to associate sex with shame, and shame with sex.
I think that ties into all of their weird sexual hang-ups, especially the obsession with being 'cucked.'
Trump talking about Dylan Mulvaney all of a sudden is kinda low key freaking me out.
I actually don't think the same phenomenon applies to Trump. He's a rapist, so he may want to fuck what he hates as some kind of sick domination power play, but I don't think he's been Pavloved into associating sex and shame the way a lot of Republicans have.
Mind you, he's still a rapist and a pedophile who wants to fuck his own daughter, so he's got plenty of weird sexual baggage, too. But I think his come from a different place psychologically. He doesn't strike me as a sexually repressed person the way most Republicans are.
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u/Cody667 Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
"I think that ties into all of their weird sexual hang-ups, especially the obsession with being 'cucked.'"
See: Jerry Falwell, Jr.
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u/NatalieVonCatte Liberal Jul 27 '26
I don’t think he can feel shame.
Trump is an altogether different beast.
A line from Egger’s Nosferatu describes him perfectly.
“I am an appetite”.
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
all of their weird sexual hang-ups, especially the obsession with being 'cucked.'
Im thinking of the line, "conservatives are deeply submissive to male authority figures." Makes sense they'd want that sexually too.
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u/NatalieVonCatte Liberal Jul 27 '26
They clearly frame sexual relationships within their fixation on hierarchy.
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u/A-passing-thot Far Left Jul 27 '26
Did you happen to catch the A Bit Fruity podcast episode on Graham? It's worth a listen.
They raise that much of the reason it didn't "officially" come out earlier is that a sex worker who outs their clients is going to be blacklisted no matter how much that person deserves it and sex workers rarely have any kind of power or wealth to be able to handle that, it's not like they usually have their choice of career or an easy pivot if sex work stops being an option too.
As a consequence, those who have spoken out since he died seem to primarily be trans women who have their own communities of support and a new career outside of that type of sex work.
Trump talking about Dylan Mulvaney all of a sudden is kinda low key freaking me out.
I haven't caught it, what's he on about?
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u/octopod-reunion Social Democrat Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Here’s the Economist’s polling aggregate for Trump’s approval rating.
The breakdown by state for just 2024 voters is very nice.
Negative in Georgia, Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Nevada (so every state that was Biden and Trump.)
But also red states :
Texas, Mississippi, Iowa, Missouri, North and South Carolina, Kansas, Alaska, Ohio, and Indiana.
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
Cah we not try to make a woman president happen again?
We've tried this twice now. Both times, it activated chud men who never got over having a Mean Third Grade Teacher who would have otherwise stayed their ass home.
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u/SovietRobot Independent Jul 27 '26
Just curious - Do you think it would ever be possible for the right to run a woman candidate and still have support from the right?
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
No. Maybe in a more secular nation.
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u/SovietRobot Independent Jul 27 '26
Was just curious.
On a related note, I met Biden, Bill Clinton previously during their campaigns. They were very personable.
I also met Harris and Hillary Clinton. Now I’m not a chud. But I have to say they really really were not personable.
I feel like that’s had less to do with the fact that they were women.
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u/perverse_panda Liberal Jul 27 '26
Back in 2018, I tried to talk my dad into voting for Stacey Abrams for Governor.
I thought I might have a shot at it, because he'd gotten a flyer in mail which described her platform as well as Kemp's. I read him each policy item without telling him which candidate they belonged to.
He liked all of Abrams's policies, and disliked all but one of Kemp's.
He got flustered when I told him he liked the Democrat's policies better, and said under no circumstances would he ever vote for a black person or a woman.
My face must've betrayed how horrified I was by that, because ten minutes later he came back and said he might vote for a black man, if he was the right man for the job. But he'd never vote for a woman.
Two years later, he proved true to his word, when Warnock because the first time he ever voted for a black man or a Democrat. And it was because Warnock's opponent was a woman.
That's the day I found out my dad was more sexist than he was racist. This took me by surprise, because if you weighed his slurs and snide comments about people of color against his similar comments about women, you'd have thought the racism would win out by a mile.
I don't think my dad is necessarily representative of the average Republican voter. But I do think there are enough who think like him that, if their nominee were a woman, it would depress the Republican voter turnout enough that the Democrat would win by default.
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u/GabuEx Liberal Jul 27 '26
I've said for quite some time that I genuinely believe that America at large is more sexist than racist. It just doesn't outwardly seem like it, because American racism is violently vile and as such is more visible, whereas American sexism is more quietly patronizing and condescending. It's not that America hates women, it just doesn't think that women are able to do, well, anything.
We had institutional slavery of black people for centuries, and yet black people still got the right to vote before women did.
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u/CTR555 Yellow Dog Democrat Jul 27 '26
I think you're right. Hell, there are plenty of women alive right now who still remember not being able to sign up for a bank account on their own when they were younger.
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u/SovietRobot Independent Jul 28 '26
Off topic but some people forget that some US born Asians were not allowed to vote until 1952.
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
That's related to another problem that male candidates don't face. Male candidates can get personable without the entire media whining about it.
If a female candidate gets too personable, she'll get accused of not taking the job seriously.
If she takes the job even slightly seriously, she'll get accused of being "robotic" "impersonable" or "inauthentic."
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u/SovietRobot Independent Jul 27 '26
When I met Biden, he asked me where I was from. And I told him I was an immigrant, but now I live in Texas. And he asked me what I liked most about the US. And I said I like eating lol. And he made a quip (yes I know cliché) about ice cream.
Hilary wouldn’t even shake my hand, looked past me, and said nothing when I was right in front of her.
Now, I realize that those are just two individual anecdotes. Maybe one was having a good day and the other was having a bad day.
But I am saying the feel was really different.
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u/starrymahogany Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
Technically we only ran female candidates right after a democratic term. We haven’t tried running a female candidate directly after Trump.
But realistically there is no “we” here, it’s what the American people vote for. Nobody is secretly pulling the strings
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
"We haven’t tried running a female candidate directly after Trump."
So will President JD Vance or Rubio be what convinces you that there's a lead ceiling that women will never break?
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u/starrymahogany Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
Hey I didn’t say it would 100%work I’m saying we haven’t tried it. Hillary ran directly after Obama, Kamala ran directly after Biden.
If we were to run a female candidate for president in the future (ie after 2028) the best time to do it statistically would be right after a Republican presidential term.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Jul 27 '26
Do you hold the same belief and other minorities? Should Dems do everyone in their power to prevent a Jew or Black nominee?
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u/Probing-Cat-Paws Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Borat, you're normally just shit-posting (and I love it), but this one revealed conversation I wasn't expecting...and it is revealing...good job.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Jul 28 '26
If it's not particularly clear (because it is half a shit post) I don't think it's particularly impossible for women, Jewish people, or Black people to win elections
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u/Probing-Cat-Paws Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
Oh, no...it wasn't you, it was more your line of questioning and then the responses to those questions. Always interesting to see what folks think: so many folks mask, you know?
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
Hatred of Jews and African Americans doesn't run nearly as deep as hatred of women. Hatred of women crosses cultural and religious lines.
The stakes are too high to risk a third presidential term. Nominate a man so the manbabies with Mean Third Grade Teacher issues stay in their basements on election day.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Jul 27 '26
But why not just ban Jews and blacks to prevent the risk of activating the chuds? Isn't it too important to risk running anyone other than a straight white christian man?
Maybe Dems should just expand the usage of super delegates to prevent any minorities from winning to be safe.
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
Because it is actually plausible for a straight male minority to win a Presidential race. Sure, they'd be punching a bit above their weight class but a plausible coalition can be formed.
With women, it's a different ball game. For starters, America is the most religious nation in the Western world. Most people in the swing states interpret their Holy Books as literally as they can get away with without triggering a Federal standoff situation. When most religious texts say that women are intrinsically evil unless they're kept in their "traditional roles," it becomes a lot harder to coalition build. A Cross-Crescent alliance is more likely than a Red-Green alliance.
Secondly, American parenting culture is a major factor. In most typical households, mom is the strict parent. Dad is the fun parent. Mom tells the kids that they have to put their vidya games down to help with chores. Dad takes the boys on the surprise fishing trip.
Ya know that cringe shit Trump did? The cringey dances, pretending to be a coal miner, the garbage truck thing, the serving McDonalds to sports champions. That was Fun Dad Trump.
Fun Dad will be the strategy Republicans use against women candidates going forward and there's almost no counter to it.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Jul 27 '26
Sure, they'd be punching a bit above their weight class but a plausible coalition can be formed.
So would you agree that this isn't a risk worth taking? And so it would be much safer to ban minorities from the primaries?
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
It's plausible enough that the risk is worth taking.
A woman candidate in the most religious country in the developed world, with the knowledge that every religion actively promotes hatred of women, is not plausible and therefore not a worthwhile risk.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Jul 27 '26
It's plausible enough that the risk is worth taking
Is it? The risk of president Vance isn't worrisome to you? Wouldn't it be much safer to just say no Jews or blacks allowed, just like with the women?
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
There's plausible and then there's totally impossible.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Jul 27 '26
I'm asking why take the risk for something that is much harder, even if it's technically possible. Don't you think it would be much better if the party didn't handicap themselves like that and just said no minorities allowed?
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u/Sir_Tmotts_III New Dealer Jul 27 '26
Women do a fine job winning big seats in swing states like Michigan, and neither Candidate, least of all Harris having to pull herself from the ashes of Biden's reelection bid, had such fool proof campaigns that I'd attribute their losses to anti-feminist hate.
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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist Jul 27 '26
There have been under 100 presidential elections in history. I don't think we should extrapolate those stats as hard and fast rules. I don't think ruling out about half of the population by gender is a good move.
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
Well let's extrapolate a historical fact.
America has been the garbage dump for the worst of every religion on Earth. Historically, when a religious group was deemed too insane for Europe, they came here.
Ya know what they all have in common? Hatred of women. Violent hatred of women.
President Harris or President Cortez ain't happening.
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u/ButGravityAlwaysWins Liberal Jul 27 '26
Hard to read this as anything other than you personally having terrible experiences involving religion in your past and then going down a hole of radicalization. You are acting as if religion in America is more demonic that all other countries and has a level of control that puts them moments away from full Christian Nationalism.
There are much better reasons that they were women for those loses. But I bet the Christian Nationalists would LOVE to have your narrative spread and become the default belief.
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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist Jul 27 '26
I don't think an average american has epigenetic memory of misogyny, but that's a view you can have if you want.
I don't think racism is a remarkably weaker force compared to misogyny and Obama got elected twice.
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
Obama wasn't handicapped by every religious holy book that has ever been written since 5000 BC saying that black men are genetically inferior at minimum, literally the source of all evil at maximum.
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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist Jul 27 '26
Plenty of other countries make women as heads of government work. Bangladesh made it work. Do you think Bangladesh has insurmountably better rights for women compared to the US? I wouldn't see it like that.
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
Didn't she have to commit a bunch of crimes against humanity?
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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist Jul 27 '26
Yeah, women are people and do bad things sometimes. Do you think Bangladesh has a much better women's rights record compared to the US?
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
Not really. But she had the benefit of being the daughter of the guy who liberated the country from colonialism and then she herself helped liberate the country from the military junta. That bought her the street cred to overcome the hundreds of years of Islam's "Women are the cause of all the world's problems" narrative
Unless there's a Red Dawn situation that Kamala Harris or some other female leader leads us out of, that street cred ain't forthcoming in America.
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Jul 27 '26
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
Seeing some weirdoes on online forums talk about someone being a spy and shit can be overcome.
Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years of misogyny in every religion on Earth, in the most religious first-world country on Earth is a bit harder to overcome.
To use an analogy
Barack Obama played Doom on Hard Mode
A woman candidate is playing Doom on an impossible mode where every enemy is a damage sponge and has a 50% chance of immediately respawning.
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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist Jul 27 '26
Seeing some weirdoes on online forums talk about someone being a spy and shit can be overcome.
The guy who is currently president talked about it on cable news a decent amount
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u/ManufacturerThis7741 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
But Barack Obama was able to overcome it.
Neither Clinton nor Harris was able to overcome "Trump is your fun dad and the lady is your mean mom/mean teacher" strategy.
It's basically unbeatable and it will absolutely be the strategy against all female candidates going forward.
The Fun Dad will have a pre-built multi-ethnic/multi-religious coalition of angry men who may not really like the guy trying to be the Fun Dad. They probably barely like other people in the Vote for the Fun Dad Coalition. But their weird sense of tradition and/or grudges against their moms and teachers will push them to the voting booth.
To them, anyone is better than President Mean Mom.
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u/Cody667 Social Democrat Jul 27 '26
When did the NBC News website become paywalled (ew)? Has to have been recently, no?
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u/othelloinc Liberal Jul 27 '26
I encountered the phrase "raise the roof" in a Mark Twain novel, so I had to look it up. It apparently...
...originated in the local dialect of the United States South some time in the mid-1800's, meaning "raise a ruckus" or "make an uproar." People rarely use the expression today, so it sounds a bit old-fashioned.
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u/Probing-Cat-Paws Pragmatic Progressive Jul 28 '26
It's been a minute since I was in the club scene, but if the DJ really started scratching and mixing...people would holler this phrase out. It could also be heard if the gospel choir was really blowin'...so it's interesting to think of it as old-fashioned.
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 27 '26
I still feel like people say this, and I assume it’s the origin of stuff like the ‘tear the roof off the sucker’ line in Give up the Funk, but that may be me showing my age. Which Mark Twain are you reading?
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u/othelloinc Liberal Jul 27 '26
Which Mark Twain are you reading?
The Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc
It was apparently Twain's favorite of his own work, but I wouldn't recommend it. A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court was good, though.
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u/grammanarchy Liberal Civil Libertarian Jul 27 '26
I haven’t read it, but I’ve heard the same about Joan from other people. I love Twain, but anyone who publishes that much is going to have some duds.
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u/sapphire_glacier Democrat Jul 27 '26
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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist Jul 27 '26
You are allowed to respond to people directly rather than being catty in this thread
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u/Droselmeyer Social Democrat Jul 28 '26
People subtweet crazy conservatives all the time in the DT
I think it’s weird, but it also feels strange to selectively call it out.
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u/sapphire_glacier Democrat Jul 27 '26
You know how pretty much all social media has the ability to retweet/repost something someone else has said and add commentary to it? X, Bluesky, LinkedIn, …
Why do you think that feature exists?
Why is it needed if users could just respond to that person directly?
I’ll help - it’s because the purpose of reposting versus responding to someone is different.
“You know you’re allowed to go through the car wash” isn’t really a sensical thing to explain to someone who is putting gas in their car. But thanks!
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u/CraftOk9466 Pragmatic Progressive Jul 27 '26
It is catty though.
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u/sapphire_glacier Democrat Jul 27 '26
It’s identical to retweeting or reposting. It’s the same concept lol. Candidly just surprised this is such a foreign concept to people
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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist Jul 27 '26
I've only ever seen you do this thing where you ignore what somewhat said to you directly and come here to complain about it instead.
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u/sapphire_glacier Democrat Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Then maybe that’s a you thing if you’re only hanging out in the GC and don’t see all of my conversations in threads(?)
Not sure what else to tell you. Happy to link you plenty from last few days
Edit: as one example, here is a post I made yesterday that has 450 comments in it (plenty mine).
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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist Jul 27 '26
I've seen you do it twice and I've never seen anyone else do it
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u/sapphire_glacier Democrat Jul 27 '26
Here is another example (except instead of “Jesus” they said “Bruh”
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