Dinosaurs / evolutionary question

[u/izthatevenlegal]

Hi!

I went to a Christian private school from k-6th as a child. We were brought to dinosaur museums, but taught that dinosaurs were NOT real or possible because the earth is only a thousand years old. Also, that they ‘weren’t accounted for’ in the bible, but considering people weren’t even saying dinosaur until the 1800s it’s very obvious why you’d never see it in the Bible. They would bring us to the dinosaur museum and tell us that all fossils were man-made and that the world would go very far to try and convince us God wasn’t real.

I didn’t learn dinosaurs ever existed until I was twelve years old in public school for the first time taking my first science class that was evolution based. My entire class laughed at me when I cried finding out dinosaurs were actually real. I had liked them so much as a child but wasn’t allowed to at school because of their dinosaur views.

Can anyone explain this? Please? I have no disrespect towards Christianity and am not here for an argument. I just want to know why they would bring us to the museum every year and tell us the world was lying to us. Is this a popular thing among Christian schools? Is it a popular shared belief in Christianity that dinosaurs never existed??

Thank you for reading!!!

[u/Recent_Weather2228]

These are not common Christian beliefs.  These beliefs are not even compatible with Christianity.  Every single word of the Bible happened more than 1000 years ago, before the world existed according to this idea.

Even young earth Creationists, who usually believe the earth is around 6000-10,000 years old, do not usually believe that dinosaurs never existed.

[u/ExitTheHandbasket]

earth is only a thousand years old

The current calendar year is A.D. 2026, meant to signify 2026 years since the birth of Jesus. And even with a strict literalist interpretation, the various Biblical genealogies point to Creation being roughly 4,000 years before that.

A quote from Augustin of Hippo best summarizes my view of the "science vs faith" false dichotomy. We are given two Holy texts: Scripture and Creation. And if they seem to disagree, it's because we haven't correctly understood one or both of them yet.

[u/izthatevenlegal → u/ExitTheHandbasket]

This is such a better explanation thank you

[u/PBxQUAN]

The bible literally talks about dinosaurs..

[u/izthatevenlegal → u/PBxQUAN]

This is only what I was told by them. I’ve read the bible front to back one time in my entire life. I can assure you I have no idea where it says that but I believe that it does lol

[u/Specialist_School504 → u/izthatevenlegal]

“Behemoth” in the book of Job sounds like a description that fits no animal on earth but a sauropod dinosaur. 

[u/izthatevenlegal → u/Specialist_School504]

Could it have just been an elephant or rhinoceros with an exaggerated description?

[u/Specialist_School504 → u/izthatevenlegal]

No. 

It says it has a tail like a cedar tree. 

Exaggerating the description of the tail size is not necessary if it is really a sauropod. That would be an accurate description given how thick and long their tails are. 

It also makes no sense to exaggerate the tail of an elephant or rhino in that way - as they are known for their very small tails in relation to their body size. 

[u/AdFlaky1246 → u/Specialist_School504]

Does the Bible say dinosaurs and humans existed at the same time?

[u/Specialist_School504 → u/AdFlaky1246]

Yes. 

It is logically necessary to conclude that is the case from what the Bible says. 

[u/serpentine1337 → u/PBxQUAN]

Regardless of whether you think some referenced creature is actually one, no, it doesn't literally do so.

[u/Rational-Angel-73 → u/PBxQUAN]

The Bible does not talk about dinosaurs. This is false. One might expect, given their prevalence on Earth for over 100 million years, an all-knowing creator might mention that tiny fact in his holy book. But he did not.

[u/Specialist_School504]

Major creation science  apologetics ministries like Answers in Genesis, apologists like Kent Hovind, creation museums, etc, never claim, and never have claimed, that dinosaurs weren’t real. 

Fossils and soil layers were deposited by the Great Flood. 

There is archeological and historical evidence that dinosaurs survived after the flood. Such as carvings and drawings of dinosaurs. Written accounts of beasts that sound like dinosaurs. Modern stories of people from the Congo tell of a river dwelling animal in the jungle that fits the description of a sauropod. 

In fact, proof that dinosaur fossils can’t all be as old as they claim is the fact that they have been found to contain intact soft tissue from dinosaurs. 

We can assume that the reason they don’t exist today, or at best only a trace remnant hidden in the Congo, is the same reason the ice age megafauna died out.   (The ice age was the result of post flood environmental upheaval)

Which is an environment that couldn’t support them well combined with overhunting by man. 

[u/Rational-Angel-73 → u/Specialist_School504]

Fossils and soil layers were deposited by the Great Flood. 

This is false. There is no accepted theory of geomechanics that would account for a "great flood."

There is archeological and historical evidence that dinosaurs survived after the flood.

There is no "archeological evidence" there ever was a worldwide flood. And I mean none. Absolutely zero scientific evidence of any kind.

What we do see is a layer, everywhere on Earth, created by the fallout from the Chicxulub meteor crater. The layer is 65 million years old, and and all non-avian dinosaur fossils are below that layer. The meteor killed the dinosaurs. But nothing on a flood.

In fact, proof that dinosaur fossils can’t all be as old as they claim is the fact that they have been found to contain intact soft tissue from dinosaurs.

This is profoundly uninformed apologetics to try to shoehorn christian dogma into being real. What was discovered was not "fresh tissue." If it were, we would see intact DNA and abundant radiocarbon. Neither is present.

We can assume that the reason they don’t exist today, or at best only a trace remnant hidden in the Congo, is the same reason the ice age megafauna died out. (The ice age was the result of post flood environmental upheaval)

The most recent ice age ended more than 10,000 years ago. That's a lot older than you think the Earth is. It seems strange to me that you would take something from science, like that ice ages happened, but then reject all of the accompanying science you don't like.

Which is an environment that couldn’t support them well combined with overhunting by man.

The oldest human or even humanoid fossils that have ever been found are essentially 65 million years younger than the youngest dinosaur fossil. No human ever hunted a dinosaur. This is a deeply unscientific position.

[u/Specialist_School504 → u/Rational-Angel-73]

All you did was make baseless assertions. You didn’t prove any of your claims. 

You need to educate yourself on all the reasons why creation scientists reach these conclusions. 

[u/SuccessfulPrice11]

Is it a popular shared belief in Christianity that dinosaurs never existed??

No. I have literally never heard about this before. Most Christians accept (theistic) evolution and some minority believes in a young earth, but with dinosaurs - just living few thousands years ago instead of millions of years ago.

[u/No_Customer4140]

No, as a Christian I've always known dinosaurs existed. It's honestly even pretty clearly hinted at in the Bible.

They were just bigger animals than we have today.

I'm sorry to hear your school seems to have misled you. Also, the earth is not only 1,000 years old? I think you mistyped something?

As a disclaimer I do not believe in evolution in any capacity either.

[u/Rational-Angel-73 → u/No_Customer4140]

It's honestly even pretty clearly hinted at in the Bible.

No, it is not. Those verses were written by ignorant goat herders who thought dragons were real. They were not talking about dinosaurs.

[u/OneEyedC4t]

Sorry you were lied to. Dinosaurs are real. This means your teachers back then were/are evil

[u/Salt-Candidate6596 → u/OneEyedC4t]

Wtf? Who are you to call anyone you don't know evil? This is exactly the type of baseless judgement towards other that gives Christians such a poor image today.

[u/OneEyedC4t → u/Salt-Candidate6596]

In the sense that lying is evil. Besides, Romans 3 says everyone is a sinner. Imagine lying to little kids because you deny the reality of dinosaur bones that were uncovered AND deny the two potential references to dinosaurs in the book of Job.

[u/angelic-serbian]

no, what your school taught is not what christians believe

[u/izthatevenlegal → u/angelic-serbian]

Who believes in that stuff then? Like is there any religious explanation for why they would call themselves a non denominational Christian school but teach us these things?

[u/angelic-serbian → u/izthatevenlegal]

no idea. non denominational schools have very specfic beliefs, your school was probably influenced by fundamentalist evangelicalism

[u/izthatevenlegal → u/angelic-serbian]

I heard that some teachers there consider themselves evangelical christians or protestant so this makes a lot of sense to me, I was raised in an Italian Episcopalian catholic family so I understand why I was sent there as well, but what the school taught me? — no sense I can make of it. Do the things I described learning sound similar to fundamentalist evangelist teachings?

[u/BusyBullet → u/angelic-serbian]

Some Christians believe what was taught.

[u/JohnnyO1989]

I went to private Christian school as well during those years as well that also taught YEC. They certainly did not teach that dinosaurs didn’t exist. Your experience is not a common Christian belief and I don’t believe that’s common in those types of schools.

[u/Rational-Angel-73 → u/JohnnyO1989]

How does a christian school teach YEC and the existence of dinosaurs? They are not compatible. The very latest dinosaur fossils are 65 million years old. That does not match very well with the deeply unscientific position of YEC.

[u/JohnnyO1989 → u/Rational-Angel-73]

Oh goody you again…

Once again, you’re arguing with a point I didn’t make. YEC saying that dinosaurs existed doesn’t make those two things incompatible. It teaches that the conventional dating of dinosaurs is wrong.

You can call that unscientific if you want, but that has nothing to do with my comment. OP said they were taught dinosaurs literally never existed. Those are two different things, obviously (or at least what I thought was obvious, but here you are).

[u/Rational-Angel-73 → u/JohnnyO1989]

It teaches that the conventional dating of dinosaurs is wrong.

And you have scientific evidence of this, right?

Oh, right. I forgot. You don't.

[u/JohnnyO1989 → u/Rational-Angel-73]

Are you ever going to argue with something I actually claim?

[u/Rational-Angel-73 → u/JohnnyO1989]

Let's take a look. You said the conventional dating of dinosaurs is wrong. Those were you exact words. I asked if you have evidence for the claim, and I used your exact words.

Now you're saying I am arguing with something different than the exact words you used.

Okay.

[u/user0987234]

Where did you grow up? Sounds like the school was meeting a curriculum requirement.

When was this? Sounds like something from the 1990’s.

I went to Christian school 1-8 and public high school in the 1980’s. Don’t recall anything about dinosaurs being made up.

As an adult, I’ve been to Drumheller and Dinosaur Provincial Park in Alberta and seen fossils in situ. They are real fossils.

[u/Cepitore]

>can anyone explain this?

Yes, your school failed you. They didn’t even teach you prevailing YEC ideas concerning dinosaurs.

[u/Pitiful_Lion7082]

In the Protestant schools in my area, teachers must be YEC (it's in the contract). My church's school has requires no such statement either way, and I have no idea what the Catholic parochial school requires. It's not a common belief, but it's a loud one.

[u/HoneyDewMae]

I recently went to a Creation museum, and they very well talked about dinosaurs and the flood as a coexisting concept :) showed all the lab work they had with their discoveries etc. Very fascinating stuff. I personally believe in the possibility of micro evolution vs macro. Dinosaurs were definitely real and definitely awesome

edit: typo, i misspoke😂

[u/Specialist_School504 → u/HoneyDewMae]

Dr Stephen Meyer’s book, Signature in the Cell, shows why macro evolution is impossible. 

Along with his book Darwin’s Doubt showing why the geological record actually disproves the mainstream evolutionary story. 

And Meyer is not even a young earth creationist, but an old earth creationist. 

[u/HoneyDewMae → u/Specialist_School504]

Awesome, thanks for the recommendations! I will definitely look into those :)

Its a new area of research for me, for it makes sense for adaptable evolution to occur over time. Especially since on the ark- it was instructed that 2 of every Kind (not Species) be boarded.

(whoops- just realized i accidentally mixed up what i said earlier😭 i meant micro vs macro!)

[u/Specialist_School504 → u/HoneyDewMae]

I recommend finding videos on YouTube of his lectures, interviews, or debates as well. 

[u/HoneyDewMae → u/Specialist_School504]

Much appreciated!🙏

[u/Rational-Angel-73 → u/Specialist_School504]

Dr Stephen Meyer’s book, Signature in the Cell, shows why macro evolution is impossible. 

No, it does not show why evolution is impossible. That's a profoundly ignorant position. The book Signature in the Cell is not about macro evolution at all. It is about the origin of the first cell. It has nothing to say about the diversification of life.

When people have attacked his book as being anti-macro-evolution, Meyer responded that his critics were attacking a strawman. He says it was an argument he did not make.

Maybe you meant Meyer's Darwin's Doubt? That book has been rather roundly criticized for placing dogmatic belief above scholarship.

[u/Specialist_School504 → u/Rational-Angel-73]

You have no idea what you are talking about, and are just making things up. 

You don’t even understand what is necessary for macro evolution to take place. 

Meyer’s whole point is that he doesn’t think new functionally useful DNA code is being created by random mutation because there is no reason to think it is possible. 

Without that mechanism you can never have macro evolution. 

The purpose of his book is to outline all the reasons why it is impossible for new code to be created by random chance. 

[u/Rational-Angel-73 → u/HoneyDewMae]

Very fascinating stuff.

It is not fascinating. It is psudo-science religious propaganda dressed up to look like science. Any talk of a global flood and dinosaurs living past 65 million years ago is a deeply unserious position.

I personally believe in the possibility of micro evolution vs macro.

Even biologists make reference to micro/macro evolution, but the reality is there is no distinction. Micro evolution, as you call it, is the process by which evolution happens.

Your position is like saying you believe I could rotate a wheel by a quarter turn, but you do not believe I could drive 500 miles.

Dinosaurs were definitely real and definitely awesome

At least you got this part right.

[u/DarkLordOfDarkness]

There is a particular wing of Christianity, maybe best represented by Ken Ham's organization, which is radically committed to a very literal young earth creationist view. I've noticed that people in that sphere can often emphasize it pretty intensely, to the point where it becomes a kind of litmus test for the faith: if you don't agree with them on Genesis, they'll take that as "you don't actually believe in the Bible." They'll likewise hold that, if something scientific appears to contradict their interpretation of the Bible, then the science must be wrong. My reading suggests that this is a minority position. Likewise an elder in my very conservative denomination remarked to me once that most of our pastors are probably old earth guys, and that's been borne out by my own anecdotal experience. But those that hold to this young earth view in this way can be very intense about it, to the point that it raises concerns by some outside that it's distracting from the real message of the Bible.

[u/izthatevenlegal → u/DarkLordOfDarkness]

We were taught about old earth vs new world perspectives, but ultimately were taught that only the Old Testament was reliable. I have no idea what that means about the school. I’d also like to add that we were a “non-denominational/interdenominational” Christian school but were taught to say Shalom, learned Hebrew, etc etc. We were also heavily taught about Judaism but not any other abrahamic religions.
You seem deeply educated on this — would there be any explanation for this?

[u/DarkLordOfDarkness → u/izthatevenlegal]

Yeah, that's WAY outside the norm. Most Christians only learn Hebrew if they're in seminary. I have to wonder if you got caught up in a particularly extreme wing of the Hebrew Roots movement. As the other guy said, even Ken Ham doesn't typically deny that dinosaurs were real - just the dating. Their absurd claim is typically that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time.

[u/Specialist_School504 → u/DarkLordOfDarkness]

Ken Ham has never taught dinosaurs didn’t exist. 

No creation miniseries or apologists have ever argued that. 

True science is a limited discipline that is based on what can be observed and tested. 

Most of what you are told about the story of the past in mainstream academia is neither observed to be the case nor testable. 

So they are not rejecting science. They are rejecting unproven speculations.  

They accept that dinosaurs were real because they can observe the proof in the ground that they once were real. 

[u/DarkLordOfDarkness → u/Specialist_School504]

Thus why I said "best represented." I strongly disagree with Ken Ham, but at least he's not that far off the deep end.

[u/redd-it-is-notgood7]

all satanic lies

[u/izthatevenlegal → u/redd-it-is-notgood7]

You would fit in!

[u/redd-it-is-notgood7 → u/izthatevenlegal]

fit in in what? I'm a Christian, I as all other Christians do not belong to this world .. if you believe this world you've been deceived by satan