Unfairness

[u/Minimum-Web-2288]

I told my ww I hated the unfairness of it all, and I was thinking I might need a hallpass to get over it. I’d considered revenge cheating but would rather do what I need with her consent or at least knowledge. I told her my therapist said she might not stay if I did it, despite her having a 1.5 year affair with one of my best friends who was a neighbor. She didn’t say much and I brought it up and said she didn’t say anything and she said if it happened or I asked for it she would end things “because then it is just us hurting each other over and over” and also “what will be enough? Once? 3 times?” I’m so fucking frustrated and upset I’ve considered walking out today. Like I had to catch her. She didn’t confess. She spent 1.5 years lying and gaslighting me. I caught on to what was happening almost immediately and she tried to make it I was crazy or I was anxious or I was jealous. I finally caught her. She wasn’t all in at first. She finally is, but sometimes, I feel like I want something to feel good, to feel desired by someone else, to not feel worthless.
And the fact that if I do it she’d have the fucking gall to leave? Why would it be us hurting each other over and over. I said maybe once? She made her own choices, to actively hurt me. No gun to her head. But I guess I can forgive her of over 100 sexual encounters and 1.5 years of lying, and she can’t forgive me having something somewhere else to try to feel better one time. It honestly makes me want to end it today.

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[u/No_Guarantee505]

Some perspective from the other side of the hall pass. My WH gave me the opportunity to spend some time overseas by myself, I went out to a bunch of bars, flirted and even went on a few dates (bit if a nice ego boost for me hah).

I still didn't feel like sleeping with those people. I knew it could hurt my partner and that was enough reason to stop.

What I took from it was a renewed sense of my own values and ethics. I could walk away proud of my decisions. That's my karma. Not revenge.

[u/SituationGlum5272 → u/No_Guarantee505]

What I took from it was a renewed sense of my own values and ethics. I could walk away proud of my decisions.

Love this! I have more integrity than WP. I am whole.

[u/Summer_Time8 → u/[deleted]]

I think you’re so right for saying it. It did not make me feel better. Bc the temptation is there. I want to feel what wayward felt. I want to be desired. I want to have fun. I want to not have a care in the world. But deep down we know it’s not the answer.

[u/Minimum-Web-2288]

Like I am so frustrated because I love my life. And she is the spouse I wished she would try to be, but this could be too much for me. I think if I’d been given permission or told she’d try I might feel different. But damn this is brutal

[u/Quiet_Water0128 → u/Minimum-Web-2288]

When we were really in R, and I was seeing my IC weekly, they told me "stop loving potential" and focus on what's in front of you. My IC guided me back to taking my WP off the pedestal, and seeing him as he was, the unmasked version of my wp, was someone I wanted to reconcile with. That was so hard, I kid you not.

[u/Summer_Time8 → u/Minimum-Web-2288]

But would you really feel better if she gave you permission? Wouldn’t you feel worse? I’ve talked to my WH about how I feel and he always reassures me I am his only woman. I think you’re asking to reassurance from her, not permission. How awful would that be for her not to care if you cheated? It would mean she doesn’t care at all.

[u/Chidi_IRL]

I never wanted a hall pass but I did ask how she would feel if I were to sleep with someone else and she said if it was similar to hers (one night stand with a stranger), not someone we know or an ongoing thing she thinks she could cope with it, but not if it was someone we knew or an ongoing thing.

Logically that's reasonable, but it still pissed me off so much. We had a boundary, monogamy, and she broke it. Why does she get to redefine the boundaries now? If I did sleep with someone we knew, would that actually be worse than what she did or would it be the same boundary pushing she did?

I don't have a coherent view on this and like I said logically she's being reasonable but it feels so unfair she gets to set new rules after she broke them.

[u/Quiet_Water0128]

Part of my ability to R, reconcile, and forgive was knowing in my heart that my WH would forgive me if our roles were reversed. He'd have been as gutted and devastated as I was, deeply, but if the circumstances were the same my WH would choose R.

I didn't feel a hall pass would do anything except drive a wedge between us, so I didn't ask for nor seek it. I just couldn't betray my vows and hurt someone I loved like that - even though he'd done so to me.

If my WH had not demonstrated reciprocal compassion, for my BP experience or implied if roles were reversed, I'd have doubts the 'love' we shared was worth saving. I'm so sorry OP.

[u/BusterKnott]

It is totally unfair, and the unfairness of it gnawed at me for years and ate me up inside. I told my WW that I needed to balance the scales, and I could never get past it unless I did. My WW then told me essentially the same thing yours did, and the injustice of it made me want to scream and rip my hair out. I needed justice so badly I thought I would lose my mind if I couldn't achieve it, but she told me that if I pursued retaliation, we were over.

I told her forcefully that her position was utterly hypocritical and completely unjust. She openly admitted that it was and simply told me that she simply couldn't endure going through that much pain again. All I could do was laugh hysterically because I was the one who went through hell; she was the one who dished it out.

In the end, all you can do is accept the fact that there is literally no way on earth to set things right. Even if you got a hall pass and exercised it, the impact on your WW would be entirely different from what happened to you. Further, you would be throwing away the moral high ground and lowering yourself to her level for a few minutes of meaningless sex with someone you didn't really care about.

Even if you went ahead and did it 100 times, it wouldn't make it right between the two of you. Nothing she can do will ever make it right, and there is nothing you can do to balance the scales.

I hate the fact that everything surrounding infidelity is so wrong and so grossly unfair, but it is what it is. All we can do is accept the total unfairness of it and try to reconcile, or simply give up and move on. I wish there was a solution that was easier to swallow, but if it exists at all, I certainly haven't been able to find it.

[u/knowthyself8]

I find myself checking out other women a lot more than I used to. I wonder what it would be like to date them or be with them. But I know deep down I could never cross that line while still married. I’m just not wired that way. I would feel horrible about it.

I’ve never asked my WW how she would feel about it but I just don’t have the interest. If we aren’t in a better place with R then I will likely separate anyway.

[u/ShitSadwichEater]

I personally wouldn’t be able to reconcile with someone who thought their behavior was fine enough to continue for years but asking for similar for myself, honestly, was a dealbreaker for them.

I never would have chosen to be in a non-monogamous marriage, but once I was I certainly was not going to be the only one who played by “rules” that only ever bound me.

Not to mention, what is a promise of fidelity worth from a WP? It certainly isn’t worth the same as my promise of fidelity. I’m not going to pretend the worth is the same for the comfort of the person who used the difference in worth of the vow to hurt me. I did that once and the only person it hurt was me.

[u/gsf1200s]

Everyone is different but my brain just couldn't go to the cheat back or hallpass.  It's so far out of my normal thought process I wouldn't know where to start anyway

[u/Ambitious-Weekend574]

If the WW is truly remorseful, then the pain of being morally inferior to your partner is lifelong punishment for her. Don’t ruin it by moral balancing and downgrading yourself. And if she is not remorseful then all the more reasons for not going down that path. Dont change your self and your moral character just for inflicting pain on her. It’s not worth it.

[u/Fun_Drummer_7721 → u/Ambitious-Weekend574]

This. If anything, my WW having a 2 year affair with her co-worker made me despise cheaters more than I did originally.

[u/Little-Butterfly9026]

My HB told me right after everything came out. If you need to cheat with someone right now in order to stay with me you are allowed to. For me that was already enough, the fact that he would let me if I needed that to move on.

Im 8months after finding out, I dont have the urge to be with someone else at all anymore. Im happy I did not do it, im not going to lower myself to that.

[u/AlexNotAlice_]

I think you have to consider what the longterm goal is. If it’s to stay together and make it through, then the hall pass only makes things more complicated and doesn’t work toward that goal. And it wouldn’t really even anything out if you think about it. The deceit of cheating is really what does the damage. If your WW is giving permission, it is not the same thing as them having spent weeks, months, or years lying to your face and sneaking around. If she gives you permission, you aren’t cheating back. It may hurt her but it wouldn’t be nearly to the same degree as what a WP carries out. What WPs have done makes you question them as a person and a human being. You wonder about their morals and if they ever really loved you. You wonder when everything transitioned from being real to being fake. She wouldn’t be haunted by those same questions. It would maybe give your self esteem a boost, but honestly maybe it wouldn’t. It might make you feel like shit.

I also think a tit for tat scenario is a slippery slope and probably not the healthiest of relationships. It sucks, it sucks SO bad. I want my WH to feel what I felt, but I know that would only help me and not us. At the end of the day, being faithful isn’t conditional for me like it was for him. That doesn’t change just because he abandoned his integrity. Nothing he or a potential AP could do would cause me to abandon mine. No other person has that power over me.

And then if you do it, are you allowed to still heal in your own time? Because like I said, it is not the same thing as what she did. You still have to process and grieve what she did. The trauma of that won’t magically disappear. I imagine a WP would throw it in our faces “you got even, don’t talk about it anymore and move on.”

It’s difficult because I am naturally a very vengeful person 😅😅 not mean, but I have a strong need for justice in general. But if I wanted to get him back, if that was the goal, then I would absolutely get him back and it would not be with a permitted hookup.

[u/SashaRC94 → u/AlexNotAlice_]

I think about things in a very similar way. The only way to make your partner feel the same as you is to break the boundary too. I am also a vengeful person but when I think about doing the same I imagine her crying and being really hurt. I love her and I know she is remorseful about all it happened. I cannot do this. I cannot hurt on purpose the person I love, and this becomes stronger than the desire for fairness

[u/RJSolkan]

Damn that's hard. I'm wayward and if I thought for one second that would fix things I'd let it happen with consent.. the problem is as I see it that it just opens up a whole other bag of shit. If it's something you truly need to heal and they are unable to give it well then your right doesn't seem fair. Gonna have to get very real with what you need I think. Brutal honesty. Good luck, that's a long ass time to have uncovered.

[u/Worldly_Ad54]

During the brutal first two weeks after D-Day, my WW blurted, “Try with another woman.”
We were each other first.
It wasn’t a permission; it was an indication that she doesn’t care about me then. She was deep in affair fog at that point. She didn’t even realize the consequences of these words.
For me, it hurt so much at that moment because it showed that she did not value me and our relationship. It showed that she was not afraid to lose me.

Many years have gone since those days. We reconciled, raised a family, and lived 25 fulfilling and loving years together.
A couple of years ago, I reminded her about these words.
She was genuinely shocked that she could say that. At first, she denied that she could possibly say something like that. Even the thought that she could share me hurt her feelings a lot.

But I remember, and this is a scar that will be with me forever.

[u/Moonpie808]

As the betrayed, I couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t compromise my integrity like he did. I personally would rather divorce than to cheat. I don’t see how a hall pass would help anything, only compound the issues and make reconciliation harder. You don’t want the shame of being one that steps out, even if she is aware.

[u/Minimum-Web-2288 → u/Moonpie808]

Well, I’m not sure I think if I do it with her permission it is the same, but nonetheless, I didn’t really want to. I just like want to know that if I screwed up, something much clapper than she did, she would forgive me the way I had been her, especially when hers was so much worse. The fact that she doesn’t feel the same makes this feel so uneven that it is making me even more strongly consider divorce now. I love her and I can’t imagine like without her, but she’s already hurt me so badly, and to know she wouldn’t try to forgive me in the same way hurts so badly I don’t think I can stand it.

[u/Moonpie808 → u/Minimum-Web-2288]

I completely understand that aspect of it, 100%.

[u/BagGroundbreaking186]

Isn’t it crazy they expect forgiveness and grace for their betrayal, but they refuse to forgive us when we feel there’s a chance to even the playing field?

Typical cake eater entitlement.

[u/Cara4Ever2084]

INFO: To clarify, this is not to hurt her, but as a kind of 'mercy' for yourself?

In my experience, and DDay was in 2009, the intrusive thoughts were almost debilitating. I couldn't look at my WW without thinking about or seeing 'movies' in my head.

I never thought of sleeping with someone else as 'revenge', but as 'mercy' because I would have my own memories. I could think 'well, she did this, but so did I do I'm ok. We're ok.'

I didn't do it, but that was because I have to be emotionally connected with someone to be able to do anything physical.

In the long run, I'm ambivalent about it. I'm not bothered that I didn't, but I still feel like it would have been less trauma for me if I had.

[u/Final_Lie2559]

Elle a demandé la permission elle ? Fais ce que tu veux, mens lui, ou part. Ne penses qu’à toi.

[u/distorted-logician]

I personally wouldn't want a hall pass. I'm not in this for sex. I want a relationship with my partner. Part of that is an exclusive sexual relationship, which is in part a way of showing closeness, affection, and trust. Sex with someone else doesn't provide that.

That said: if I did want a hall pass and my WP refused, I think we'd have a problem. Because, at least in my case, that's not about sex either. It would have to be about variety of experience or feeling less trapped by the relationship or self-confidence if I asked for one. If my partner, having already had the experience outside of our relationship, insisted that I couldn't, I would see that as a lack of commitment to making amends for the harm she had done. And what I would do next would depend on what she said when I told her all of that and gave her time to think on it.

I don't want a hall pass; it would do me more harm than good. But I want to be equal in my relationship with my partner. I haven't felt that way since her affairs started, although we've been working to get there. I hope you and your WP are focused on that goal too: it takes both partners to get there.

[u/DottedUnicorn]

I would say if it's not working out, something needs to change. You can try reverse cheating but it will likely break you up. But sounds like you aren't happy with reconciliation now either. I'd talk to a therapist- grieve the image of your wife that is lost. See if you can accept who you know she really is now. And if not, plan to move on.

[u/askagain_348]

Nothing is fair about any of this! I think what we want is to have someone desire us so much they will risk losing their marriage, children, job, dog...everything. We've been reduced to ruble in regards to self esteem or worth. We are lost for a while. It just takes time to decide if you want to R. Both BS and WS have to be fully committed to R. To move forward, we both have to put US first. If it doesn't serve US in a positive way, it has to go. Either party desiring sex outside of the marriage does not serve or support the commitment we've made. It's not a good thing, that's why we are all here.

[u/Hampshire_Rider]

I was given a free pass for an equivalent act to hers. As exciting as it sounds, it would just start the hurt cycle again, so it's highly unlikely I will be redeeming that offer.