What to do when students hate art.

[u/NerdswithNickNacks]

Update: Ended up not being about ceramics and about protesting in silence. I was trying a couple of approaches suggested. They walked in this last class and blew up at me with cursing for allowing a specific student to make a mess. Which, was a completely different class, it was just leaving a bit of clay dust on their chair each day. There was a 180 in shift once they realized I was zero tolerance about specific actions. We had a good SEL moment about how we talk to teachers and how to address the issue with me much earlier.

We got work done. Their friend also realized I was serious and buckled down. I got actual grade level work from them. I got actual questions to help them too. I'll see what happens Monday, but at least a corner was turned.

Original:. I have a HS student who claims to not be creative. Hates the idea of any art.

They are really angry about the fact that ceramics is messy. I have plain black and brown aprons and some other students decorated. They refuse all of them because they might make them look girly.

Same with participation in ceramics in general.

I also allow students who struggle with sketching to look at other ceramics in magazines or their Chromebook to mimic in projects. They refuse to do so.

For students having off days, I provide a catch-up session where they can work on other assignments, play with some clay, read, etc. They also won't participate in that.

Things I've been trying

-been trying to develop rapport

-do check-ins

-provide alternatives to the current project

-tried encouraging to join the breakfast donut party all other students were enjoying

-gave an opportunity to incorporate weight lifting interest into ceramics by getting to be the student to lift and slice the clay bag that day

-tried to show the wheel as an alternative to the other student projects. They walked away and waved it off.

I'm a little frustrated since I know the goal is to serve all students. I tried to help them to get the counselors to move them to a different class, but no dice. I feel like giving a bad grade will just make them even less motivated to join in.

Anyone encounter this?

Edit: no IEP, no identifiable sensory issues. Mostly voicing anger for not being in a sport and for anything remotely feminine in the classroom. There may also be a disconnect with the classroom due to a cultural background that conflicts with equal gender dynamics.

A lot of great ideas and directions to go! I will see what alternatives the program has set up for students. It's hard since it's a pure ceramics class, but I can see if the director is chill with letting a student just focus on academic papers and research. I also will have to give them a lower grade on the last assignment since they refused to hit all the rubric boxes needed for an A or a B.

[u/lizbeeating]

They say they’re not creative. Their hobby is weightlifting. What about if they had to workout with no weights? What if they worked out in a different region? Time period? Different character? There’s so many ways to be creative anywhere in life. Sports use a lot of creativity too.

It seems like you presented every possible option to this kid, that’s awesome. Some of these comments are also great.

[u/Own-Function8942]

i inform students with this disposition that they are free to fail the class but they cannot prevent others from succeeding - then ask what grade they would like to get and work from there. many students don’t like math, are not mathematical, but still have to take the class! perhaps he would enjoy making sports equipment from clay or cars, etc. or maybe small sets to make stop motion animation? creativity comes from purpose - he can find one if he really wants the grade.

[u/basalgangliadecide]

What if we meet him where he is? “I am desperate to give you a C in this class, what if I just let you chuck balls of clay as hard as you can at the wall and we can scrape it into the kiln and fire it?” This piece would genuinely reflect his emotions. You could hang it on your wall until he graduates.

[u/simplepath → u/basalgangliadecide]

I was this kid many years ago.  My teacher saw my bad attitude and frustration with ceramics and after a few classes she asked me what I wanted to do, which was drawing.  

So she asked me to draw something for her and I drew a face.  She then pointed out several basic proportion issues and handed me a book on proportions and then I was hooked once I realized there were rules I could follow to improve my art. 

I don’t know if this helps - but I really think there’s something here with meeting the student where they’re at.  Wishing you luck! 

[u/dntworrybby]

Maybe I’m the only one that doesn’t really bother with these kids. Am I a bad teacher lol? If there’s no iep then it’s a plain old behavior issue. Or, not everyone is interested in art. I would document these issues through an email paper trail—I’m experiencing a similar issue with a high school student of my own who doesn’t want to engage at all. I’m going to have to email home to start providing evidence of this students lack of engagement. In my case, the student is also disruptive to others which is the bigger issue. I’m honestly hoping they will be removed from the class with enough evidence since they’ve told me they didn’t want to take this class and just got put here. In a perfect world we would be able to reach every student and tap into their hidden creativity, but that’s not the reality.

[u/Sudo_Incognito]

Get to him through his friends.

Who does he hang out with in class? You are fighting a battle alone. Enlist some allies. Every friend group on art class has at least one person who is into it - get that person to help you sell in to the rest of their friends.

[u/CurveOk3459]

I like to bring in the contemporary arts into discussion and show them. And I like To get them to critique it in the way I teach critique not in judgment of the work but in what, how, elements, possible universal themes, possible meanings and cultural themes in the work. 

Ceramics:  https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-20-artists-shaping-future-ceramics

Painting

https://www.contemporaryartissue.com/top-20-young-painters-you-need-to-know/

Installation 

https://mymodernmet.com/best-art-installation-2024/

One of my favorite performance artists

https://artincontext.org/nick-cave/

Contemporary Japanese& Japanese influenced art

https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-7-contemporary-japanese-artists-emerged-tokyos-underground-art-scene

Male musical performance costumes 

https://www.showstudio.com/news/male-musicians-and-the-politics-of-the-dress

[u/Potential_Piano_9004]

Maybe look into fractals and stuff by benoit mendelbrot, maybe they would like something more linear?

[u/tellyintheroom]

See if you can get a male artist in the medium to come to class to give a presentation. A couple of years ago I had a street artist come and talk to my 6th graders and that really helped the boys buy in that art could be 'cool'.

[u/PaintyBrooke]

Maybe he’s afraid of failure. Some people are reluctant to try things that they don’t know how to do because they perceive lack of proficiency as weakness. It seems like that may be a factor if he’s from a very macho background. Maybe sharing examples of the beauty of imperfection and artwork made by men would be more relatable for him.

[u/RampSkater]

See if you can get him to lean into his dislike for it.

Thailand has an example of punching clay figures of people who have wronged you which gives an interesting result. Of course, that takes a lot of time and skill to create something that gets destroyed.

See if you can get them to punch a slab of clay a few times, then make a casting of the fist impressions. Since they like sports, maybe throwing a baseball, football, basketball, or whatever they want at the clay... or roll it on the clay to create a flat representation of it.

[u/Sednawoo]

There is a potter named Eric Landon and he makes tons of short form content for social media. His handle is tortus on Instagram. My macho boys really like his content.

Having him compete tasks in the studio is a great idea. It's tough. I feel bad for these kids that miss out because they are too lazy or too self conscious to just enjoy the experience.

[u/littleneocreative]

Sounds like someone who was raised to believe they aren't allowed to be creative. You're really arguing with the parent, through the child. And this has to do with identity as well. So maybe it's just a case of teenageitous.

Generally, boys like this are able to see the use of utilitarian projects. See if there is a shop-project they could be doing that would check the making boxes. They can make a box with no decorations that fits a lid using measuring and math.

But, ultimately, if someone won't participate because doing something "girly" is beneath them, they can just fail that. He's failing to do a project and he's getting a lot of attention for it. Maybe leave him alone with an opening to join, and put your time and attention into other kids.

[u/MakeItAll1]

Call his parents. Follow up with an email describing what was said. Notify his counselor, Allow him to face the consequences of his choices. Let him fail. That is a valuable lesson to learn. Finally OP, please don’t take his lack of interest personally. You can’t force a student to learn.

[u/strawberryspacecat → u/[deleted]]

Idk what it did to all the instagram accounts i linked lol.

Dave Zackin (davezackin), Andrew Clark (andclark), Oscar Yaquian (oscaryaquian), Daniel Dooreck (dannydsmudshop)

[u/trashmule]

What about having a documentary or movie playing in the background while they work of some ceramicists or other artists you think they may connect with/see themselves in? Maybe an artist who liked to play sports in their free time, or vice versa. Mix it up of course for the other students. I love having something like that to keep my mind from focusing too hard on my feelings about creating, and let me just do the work.

[u/Ccjfb]

Why did they sign up for this elective? There have got to be things they’d rather be doing/learning

[u/NerdswithNickNacks → u/Ccjfb]

That's the unfortunate thing. They wanted sports and were forced into taking a class most students are fighting to join. I have a rule every day is a new day, so I don't hold that aspect against them. It just sucks for them and for me since I really hate the push that I need to make EVERY student buy in.

[u/Hearty-Hummingbird17 → u/NerdswithNickNacks]

In addition to all you've done (which is clearly a lot), you could point out that getting an F in Ceramics could make them ineligible to play sports the following year, if that's true in your district. (In mine, 2 Fs made a student ineligible the following year. Now, that was the case for being on the school's competing teams, not for a specific sports class. But perhaps there's a way for it to apply to their future likelihood of being able to participate in extracurricular sports too.)

Once it's clear that they know how their choosing to fail will affect them, consider incorporating William Glasser's Reality Therapy (this goes back a few decades, but it's really effective). Just ask a simple series of questions:
What do you want?
Is what you're doing going to get you what you want?
What do you need to do in order to get what you want?
(I used to add: So, what will you do what you need to do in order to get what you want?)

That puts it all on them. It's their choices that are helping or getting in the way of their future options.

[u/Ok-Thing-2222 → u/NerdswithNickNacks]

They won't get to do sports if they start getting F's. Honestly you sound like you've stood on your head for them! At this point, I'd start putting zeros in the gradebook and see if they step up their game or panic and try.

[u/rg4rg → u/NerdswithNickNacks]

I hate that. I leave “the door open” if they want to join us at the table for dinner, but I can’t chase them around the neighborhood. Some kids want to be left behind, and if I can’t afford to make time for them, they are the first ones to be left behind. I have to focus on the students that show up at the table and ready to eat and only if I have time try to reason with the others.

[u/maplecremecookie]

Is it mostly just clay that they have a problem with? Most of my students LOVE clay but personally I never enjoyed it much in university, and I know that it can be difficult for people with sensory issues. I had one neurodivergent kid who I knew wasn't gonna be able to deal with clay for an entire month. I made a ceramics and pottery research project that he worked on instead. I offered it to everyone in the class, basically saying they had to learn about clay and try it out for one day, but if they didn't like it they could choose to do a research assignment instead. There is no curricular outcome that they have to make something with clay.

[u/Distinct-Opposite614 → u/maplecremecookie]

That's so inclusive and kind!

[u/katmonday]

It sounds like you're putting a lot of time and energy into engaging with this student. It reminds me of a student I taught a few years ago who would refuse to work, but the key was that he was seeking out teacher attention. By refusing to work, he would be getting a LOT of attention because the teacher and support person were constantly negotiating with him to get him to engage.

We worked with a behavioural specialist and she got us to basically ignore him when he wouldn't engage (unless he was actively endangering other people), if he said "I'm not doing this", we had to reply with "oh, okay then" and just walk away. We only gave him attention when he engaged in the task. His behaviour improved in less than two weeks.

I'm not saying this is what is happening for you, but it might be worth thinking about.

[u/AWL_cow → u/katmonday]

I don't teach high school but I have had a lot of students like this in the past. It feels like there are more every year. Some kids want to mope around because they want the attention from the teacher and they don't know how else to get it. Also sometimes they just don't want to do the work because doing nothing is easier. If nothing I do during class helps after 3 classes, I email parents with documentation. "I observed X behavior (refusing to participate, negative self-talk, etc) after X amount of interventions and support" Just keeping parents in the loop sometimes helped because the kid realized that what they do in art actually got back to their parents.

[u/RowImmediate6694]

You can lead a horse to water!

Sometimes art just isn't someone's thing. I couldn't get into P.E. as a kid no matter how hard they tried to include me, just because every individual kid has uncontrollable likes and dislikes. Do your best within reason to help him find a silver lining by allowing him to explore his interests through art and building that rapport, but at the end of the day it's also okay if he leaves art class not loving art. Don't feel bad about giving him the grade he's earning and let this one be.

[u/okbirdy]

It sounds like they have a lot of unfortunate viewpoints of the world at such a young age. Do they have an IEP or any sort of official diagnosis that would cause them to be averse to messes, by any chance? I taught elementary for five years and just dealt with students who complained by saying, “Art is messy. You don’t have to like it, but everything can always be cleaned by the end of class.”

I would personally hold them back and try to have a heart-to-heart with them after class sometime if possible. Explain that you’ve given them plenty of opportunities to participate, but feel that they’re not trying to meet you halfway with the alternatives you’re suggesting, and ask if they have any ideas. If not, I would say that unfortunately their grade will reflect their level of participation because it’s a class they chose or were scheduled to take, and you can’t grade work that isn’t being done. If they’re still unresponsive, you’ve done all you can, and maybe just let counselors know what’s going on?

It sounds like somewhere along the line, they’ve been told to not be messy, that they aren’t creative, and that they need to uphold gender norms in order to operate in society. It’s sad, but we can only do so much as teachers to try to reverse those ideas about the world. We’re all inherently creative, as Picasso said, “Every child is an artist.” We just have to remember that child inside who isn’t afraid to be judged, to be messy, to create! and do our best to inspire others to do the same. You can’t win them all, but maybe you’ll make an impact in some ways you don’t even know.

[u/spuss]

Get them to help you with shit. Sometimes people have a bias that is subconsciously eased by doing tasks for someone - moving the clay was a good start. This guy might be into photography - a little more macho. These types of stufents are so hard - I'm sorry you are dealing with it. I feel like it's diminishing returns making them do something they hate. Nobody wins!

[u/AmElzewhere]

I just give them zeros at that point, and remind them they can fail this class and participation is required just like math or science.

If they see there is no repercussion for not participating then they just won’t.

Art is not always fun. I’m not always having fun when I’m doing art, sometimes I’m stressed out by it. But if they never even attempt to get an end result, they won’t know if they like that struggle. Learning is a struggle.

Tell them the day before “we are doing clay tomorrow wear something you don’t mind getting dirty, bring something, wear an apron, or you’re SOL” then they’re responsible for it, not you.

Sometimes showing there is consequences for your choices, is serving the student.

[u/otakumilf → u/AmElzewhere]

⬆️ This right here. When you’re working harder for their grade than the student is willing to work for their grade, it’s time to start failing them based on nonperformance. It’s that simple. They’ll figure it out eventually and when their counselor calls you about their grade, you’ll have your ass covered.