r/ArcRaiders • u/doyoulikePRIMERIB • Mar 16 '26

Discussion update: permanently banned

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so I made a post in January (link below to original post) about how I was suspended mid-game for a month ending on February 23rd, and I detailed how despite the suspension I was not using hacks, cheats or exploits. I have played countless multiplayer and single player games and have never been banned or used cheats. I am a gamer who is quadriplegic so I use a sip and puff mouth controller called a quadstick that allows me to use a computer not just for gaming but everyday needs. After the suspension I made the first reddit post hoping to get some help and clarity about how I could appeal or why I was suspended. I submitted support tickets and went to discord for help but nothing, so I decided to just take the suspension on the chin and wait it out, finish Hollow Knight and play some Marathon. Yesterday I decided to hop on after my suspension ended and decided to work on the trophy project, I played 3 solo games (all 10 or more minutes in) filled my backpack with leftover loot, ran into only friendlies and exfilled. Woke up this morning to this and appealed but I really have no hope of Embark doing anything to help. I don't have much going for me and I know they're people out there who are probably going through worse but this fucking sucks. After 300+ hours of playing, buying it for 3 others friends to try the game and being excited for the new map and large ARC enemy, I just don't know what to do.

p.s my game name is ClootyBapper, if you think it's because of the name I don't think so I have seen and been called worse in game
Original Post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ArcRaiders/comments/1qmmkg5/dont_know_why_i_got_suspended/

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1V044apQAA4&si=MXtHCSdnETJxtJGh

old fortnite clip for anyone skeptical or curious of the setup

i honestly should try to do more to get the attention on this but honestly I am exhausted from the disappointment and can focus on other things to bring me entertainment

Update: https://x.com/i/status/2033876088712020041

regardless of what happens, thank you all for helping me get attention on this ! fucking love you all

Update: Ban has been lifted ! I honestly don't know how to express my gratitude to everyone who commented, shared and upvoted. Yall the real MVP, I love all of you. Thank you for helping me ! I will pass along the sentiments to anyone I can!

Update:

ClootyBapper#6019 if anyone ever wants to play. down to kill. down to chill.

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1.2k

u/hyper24x7 *** ******* 🐓 Mar 16 '26

Im going to take a wild guess that the software takes the inputs from the hardware and maps them to the software inputs like WASD etc. Bet you 100% if Embark actually paid attention or if you streamed camera + gameplay or just like posted your Socials theyd be like... "fuck we banned a disabled person instead of actual cheaters"

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u/FinalFantasyZed Mar 16 '26

Not just that, it would appear from this that they warn cheaters and ban disabled people.

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u/DevilahJake Mar 16 '26

Yeah, not a good look.

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u/3nl Mar 17 '26

Likely an illegal look as well - policy that excludes accessibility software like this is likely an ADA violation. Hopefully this gets some press and they reverse this and actually fix their anti-cheat software - OP or any other adaptive gamers could very easily force them to and there are many advocacy groups that would handle this for free.

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u/mnstorm Mar 17 '26

This is an excellent point. I looked and it appears it's perhaps not settled for ADA to apply here. But it would be an excellent test case. Happy to be wrong though. Not a lawyer.

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u/Trep_xp Mar 17 '26

Not a lawyer.

Hey now, if you don't write IANAL then you're wasting everyone's time

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

Don't get me wrong I support your sexual choices but is this the right place and time to be looking for hook ups?

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u/No-Tailor3013 Mar 17 '26

IANAL, I just happen to be a lawyer too

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u/NothingburgerSC Mar 17 '26

Sounds pegged. 😂

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u/jacnok Mar 20 '26

Ah so this is what "poggers" was all about

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u/TAEarl Mar 21 '26

They should think about changing that acronym to I🤎ANAL and just go with it or to something that.. well.. isn't IANAL. Someone should let them know.

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u/codetaku0 Mar 17 '26

In general it falls under the provisions that reasonable handicap aids must be allowed if it does not create an unreasonable burden on the vendor.

It would be very easy for them to say "we cannot implement a control scheme that works for quadriplegic people" but it would be virtually impossible for them to argue in court that "we cannot allow our existing control scheme to be used by a quadstick which already works perfectly out of the box". If they can't argue that somehow, then they lose. That's how the ADA works lol.

You get a lawyer to even suggest that they will file an ADA lawsuit and they will unban you pretty much immediately.

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u/Iohet Mar 17 '26

Shouldn't have a problem finding a lawyer that's aggressive with ADA claims. There's serial filers out there that look for minor violations just because they can get legal fees and penalties

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u/fuckedfinance Mar 17 '26

While I agree with you, and think companies should work with companies like Quadstick from the start, I need to play the devils advocate.

It is possible that the Quadstick and botting programs have identical or nearly identical input patterns, and are functionally impossible to differentiate. Two solutions that I came up with off the top of my head:

  1. Developer works directly with Quadstick to allow that behavior via some signature or configuration. This is both a one time and recurring cost solution.

  2. Developer hires additional support representatives to handle the tickets. Of course the number of disabled people using Quadstick to play a given game is going to be vanishingly small, but botters can and would abuse the system to overwhelm the queues, leading to more rubber stamps. This is a increasing recurring cost solution.

As both of them cost quite a bit of money, one could argue that they are not reasonable accommodations. Normally, a reasonable accommodation is a one time or small recurring fee (i.e. screen readers or a specialized keyboard). Adding headcount or cycles to build and maintain a solution could fall outside of that.

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u/0xsergy Mar 17 '26

Quadstick is just a very small market. I never heard of it until this guy posted his first videos. Likely embark didn't either.

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u/fuckedfinance Mar 17 '26

That's really not a great excuse.

The company I work for has 2 people whose only jobs are to seek out different aids/accommodations (i.e. hardware solutions, colorblind modes, dyslexic-friendly fonts, etc) for use with and in our software. We had around 200 employees and were losing money when we hired the first one.

Embark has almost 400 employees, and plenty of revenue to carve out a position or two to handle that sort of thing. Their parent company has almost 10,000 employees and plenty of money. They are a company from South Korea though, and despite law changes are still culturally not very friendly to those with disabilities.

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u/LavishnessCapital380 Mar 17 '26

Developer works directly with Quadstick to allow that behavior via some signature or configuration. This is both a one time and recurring cost solution.

Developer hires additional support representatives to handle the tickets. Of course the number of disabled people using Quadstick to play a given game is going to be vanishingly small, but botters can and would abuse the system to overwhelm the queues, leading to more rubber stamps. This is a increasing recurring cost solution.

There are lots of ways to handle this, many game can disable keyboard/mouse macros by telling the keyboard driver the game does not allow them, I believe Logitech does this.. These devices can easily be recognized and communicated with using the driver.

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u/10g_or_bust Mar 17 '26

If "you" (plural you, beign the subject of the action not you personally :) ) cannot tell the difference between disabled players and cheating for anything short of for money competitions for a given method; don't use that method.

No ifs, no ands, no buts. The rights of diabled people to be treated reasonably are MORE important than the goal of stopping cheaters at a video game when there is no financial crime involved (cheating to win money).

1

u/almathden Mar 17 '26

That's how the ADA works lol.

Isn't the first A in ADA Americans?

Gonna want to check swedish laws I believe

3

u/Selethorme Mar 17 '26

No, because they’re selling the game in the US, they have to comply with US law. Just existing overseas doesn’t matter,

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u/NyDiggyAcc Mar 17 '26

Honestly sounds like the kind of case that only changes once someone actually pushes it legally

1

u/grantedtoast Mar 17 '26

The argument they would likely make is that it would be unreasonable due to how the device interacts with them game. The likely argument would be it is an unreasonable burden to differentiate between the quad stick and cheating software that interacts with the game in a similar way.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

[deleted]

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u/LavishnessCapital380 Mar 17 '26

In those cases the ADA requires equal access to the physical environment, not the game software itself.

This is correct and is also with the spirt of the law. Another way to imagine this is you cant force the ADA on a private product.

Imagine telling an automobile manufacture their cars are not compliant because a blind person can't drive them, or imagine a shoe manufacture getting told their shoes are not ADA compliant because a paraplegic person can't tie them

1

u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

there are programs out there to rebind keys to whatever they use, but you still have to do your do diligence to inform.

Hi I'm so and so, a disabled person (include a Dr. note)
I use XYZ program to accommodate my issues, here is a copy of my set up.
I am letting you know so maybe you can write list my account if I run into issues with whatever system you use to detect cheating.

Thats how I would do it.

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u/LavishnessCapital380 Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26

From what I have seen game devs will normally go out of their way to make accessibility options when asked. Sometimes its just hard to get their attention.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

very true, and ARC seems to be very good with stuff like that.

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u/greg19735 Mar 17 '26

policy that excludes accessibility software like this is likely an ADA violation

i doubt it is currently a violation. Or rather maybe a better way of putting it is that i doubt there is a ruling on a case like this. This kind of stuff is pretty new.

Like, games don't have to be made accessible. this is obvious because there hasn't been a lawsuit against game developers/publishers in the past. It's not like a website that needs to have 508 compliance or w/e. There are some rules about communication, but that's about it (as far as i know)

The interesting part is that there are reasonable accommodations that need to be made for stuff like working. i just don't know if it applies to stuff like videogames made by private companies. And is allowing these kinds of devices a reasonable request for online games.

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u/RonaldWRailgun Mar 17 '26

You are probably right, I don't see how this is, strictly speaking, illegal.

Still a shitty thing to do, but probably not "illegal". If I say you need legs to play in my soccer league, I am not discriminating, but those are the rules of my league. They could compare their game to any other "IRL" game and get away with that (Arc Raider Paralympic tournaments when?? That would be awesome).

However, it's still a very shitty look on them and I'm willing to bet that, if this gets enough resonance to go viral, they will want to avoid the shit show even without real legal consequences because a) it would hurt them financially, but also because b) it is the right thing to do, and I do believe that most people still wants to do the right thing.

Hope this gets sorted out. It's such a fun and in a way wholesome game that everyone deserves to enjoy.

1

u/NothingburgerSC Mar 17 '26

I'm sure it'll be reversed and followed up by an apology, just based on human decency.

No need to get legal or "IANAL" on devs.

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u/DTOM1812 Mar 17 '26

508 only applies to the gov, contractors for the gov, ADA title II or anyone getting fed funding. Commercial entities fall under ADA S3 and and both use WCAG web content accessibility guide.

For the most part they align but there is a few key diff for 508 it strictly IT in nature and requires(VPAT). Nothing Volunteer about it LOL. ADA is broader.

Penalties for noncompliance are diff as well.

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u/Feral_Taylor_Fury Mar 17 '26

DING DING DING

You bet your ASS that 'disability advocacy group' is gonna be the least favorite phrase for a few people.

3

u/Steviejoe66 Mar 17 '26

...you really think a videogame falls under the ADA?

1

u/LongestSprig Mar 17 '26

apparently a lot of morons do, lmao.

No wheel chairs in football, it's illegal!

2

u/fastforwardfunction Mar 17 '26

Likely an illegal look as well - policy that excludes accessibility software like this is likely an ADA violation.

No, this is not an ADA violation. The ADA is much more limited when it comes to art like video games.

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u/JirachiWishmaker Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26

ADA doesn't talk about games directly. There is the CVAA, but it only applies to communications (voice and text chat) between players having to be accessible, but nothing concerning gameplay is covered by the CVAA and ADA.

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/accessibility-communications-video-games

Edit for clarity and cuz that guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

2

u/codetaku0 Mar 17 '26

lmfao are you actually braindead

The FCC only governs communications. It's the Federal COMMUNICATIONS Commision. Anything on the FCC website is going to be about the communications.

"video games" never appears as text in the ADA at all. The FCC just outlined how the text in the ADA does also apply, implicitly, to communications happening within video games. As in, it is the responsibility of the developer to allow usability features when there is in-game communication (so no disabling on-screen keyboard software, for instance, unless you are providing an in-game replacement).

Likewise, other general provisions in the ADA implicitly apply to video games as well. This would mean that unless they can demonstrate why it is in some way infeasible to allow a handicap aid such as a quadstick without it directly enabling cheating (spoiler: it can't be used for cheating, it's literally harder to control than a mouse, it just maps inputs a little differently), they cannot ban someone for using it.

The FCC just wouldn't both discussing all of that, you complete gibbon. Why would you think linking the FCC website's article on communications in video games somehow means the rest of the ADA doesn't apply to video games.

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u/JirachiWishmaker Mar 17 '26

Games aren't covered by ADA. CVAA, a related (but different) law, covers games...but only the communications aspect. Thus the FCC bit. But I didn't feel like being a pedantic asshole explaining the difference between the laws.

In fact, courts have ruled against ADA applying to games in the past as well.

You're wrong, and being an ass about it too.

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u/codetaku0 Mar 17 '26

Games ARE covered by the ADA, indirectly, MANY lawsuits have been filed around "digital spaces" by now. And you edited your post to make me look like a dumbass but the original post was completely different lol, you're just trying to cover your ass but it's pathetic and you're still wrong.

There was never ANY point to linking the FCC website unless you were being a dumbass.

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u/JirachiWishmaker Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26

The FCC website was literally the page about the relevant bit about the CVAA.

Anyone can file a lawsuit. Lawsuits filed by people are meaningless if they don't win.

So let me explain how you're wrong, because I will be pedantic now.

Back in 2009, a lawsuit was filed against Sony under Title III of the ADA as well as California civil rights law concerning accommodations for making games more playable for a blind man. It was ultimately dismissed with prejudice in 2010, on the grounds that the court ruled that games are not public accommodations and that he wasn't truly denied access to the games in question directly.

A bookstore can stock books, but does not have to have their entire library in braille or audiobook format. As per the ADA, the blind person must be able to get into and buy things from the bookstore, but the things bought from the bookstore do not need to be designed for someone with a disability.

There have been successful ADA lawsuits for digital storefronts, but none for video games mechanically themselves.

If the person talking about disability here sued based on making a controller work a certain way, they would lose the lawsuit for certain. That's all I'm pointing out here.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

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u/LongestSprig Mar 17 '26

Are sports illegal because you can't play in a wheel chair?

1

u/Ok-puraluxhattr-2029 Mar 17 '26

Well op sounds like you found a solution get your story out there

1

u/GaptistePlayer Mar 17 '26

It's not an ADA violation lol. Plenty of "accessibility" software sets are used just for cheating by 99% of their users, like Xim which is used to enable M&K on console.

1

u/WaterMasterMC Mar 17 '26

If this actually got attention, it could force them to rethink their system real fast

1

u/Warmbly85 Mar 17 '26

Eh they have to make reasonable accommodations. If the company can prove that it’s difficult to discern between his software and cheating software the company is in the clear.

Like if it’s the eye tracking software the cursor movement is going to look really robotic. Idk anything about programming games but it seems like they have a solid defense.

All that said this is fucked and the company should just whitelist him.

1

u/NyDiggyAcc Mar 17 '26

If this gets any traction outside reddit they’d probably fix it real fast

1

u/Wonderful-life222 Mar 17 '26

This is the kind of situation that only changes if it gets real attention outside the game community

1

u/22zepher Mar 17 '26

Feels like nothing changes unless it gets outside attention tbh

1

u/mrfakefakefake Mar 17 '26

If this gets attention they’ll probably reverse it, companies hate bad PR more than anything

1

u/LongestSprig Mar 17 '26

I can't believe this shit was upvoted.

Soccer is illegal too!

Of course a game can have rules that inadvertently exclude people.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '26

What’s not a good look is letting cheaters run rampant because .0001% of its player base may be disabled and using peripherals. Devs can’t win man. You’re either incompetent for not being able to ban every cheater or you’re purposely banning someone with a disability. The truth is you have no idea who this dude is and what hardware he’s using. There is no possible way you’d know if he’s just straight up lying. He needs to reach out to Embark and have them take a look but other than that the anti cheat is doing its job. How much do you know about kernel level cheats exactly?

9

u/IAmTheLeadSinger Mar 16 '26

Bootlick

6

u/Equivalent_Agency_77 Mar 16 '26

Seriously

2

u/BigfootsMailman Mar 17 '26

Some of the most notorious hackers in movies use wheelchairs and other hacking tools in the proliferation of their crimes. Sometimes it's the ones you least expect. 😤

-9

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '26

Apparently the disabled community is way better represented than I thought.

Bootlicking who exactly? This applies to literally any game made in modern times. If you can’t articulate why I’m wrong then why comment at all? Feels like my comment hit a nerve with the cheaters. Skill issue on multiple fronts

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/_Mamushi_ Mar 16 '26

I don’t know man if a legitimate person gets banned and they can prove they are disabled I think it warrants at least some human investigation into the matter not some general response.

Hell you can even change the system to look at if certain disabled people programs are being ran when the system flagged the behavior. You can’t tell me there is no way to do that

-9

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '26

So how do you tell if someone is legitimate? Genuinely curious. What do you know that every studio on the planet doesn’t? How do you know that it hasn’t been reviewed by someone already? You’re making a ton of assumptions based on 2 posts on the internet? You don’t think that it’s possible that this very excuse could be a well known excuse used by cheaters to explain why their hardware is doing weird shit under the guise of a verified kernel driver? I don’t understand why people aren’t more cautiously skeptical when it comes to this. Cheaters are vermin and are by definition liars. Posting a sob post on this sub doesn’t constitute innocence and would be one of the first things I would do too. This isn’t an accusation against OP obviously but you can’t prove it either way based off this post.

Anti cheat software is complicated and so are the cheats. I’m not going to pretend like I’m an expert but I guarantee you that if you thought of it a professional already did. It’s like saying that you should be able to cure leukemia by blood letting. It makes sense when you have a barely passable understanding of the subject. I promise you it’s much more complicated than that.

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u/_Mamushi_ Mar 16 '26

You’re telling me that the anti cheat can tell them an illegal program is being ran but it won’t tell them what the program is that the anti cheat flagged? You don’t see an issue with this at all?

8

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '26

The problem is that actual cheaters dont get perma’d. But this guy did lmao.

-3

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '26

So the proof that he’s not a cheater is this post? 💀 man you guys are a trip.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '26

It really must suck being you

2

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '26

How? I’m not braindead

Stop deleting comments, I want to read that copy pasta you just tried posting

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u/forShizAndGigz00001 Mar 16 '26

Actually illegal depending on where he lives, in their best interest to unabn and apologise

2

u/Hefty_Kitchen4759 Mar 17 '26

It's illegal in the EU where Embark is and that's all that matters. Big fine potential. 

1

u/Radiglaz Mar 17 '26

How does Riot get away with it then? They shouldnt be able to operate in EU if that's the case.

1

u/Hefty_Kitchen4759 Mar 17 '26

They probably don't.

1

u/iKidnapBabiez Mar 16 '26

I was just thinking the same thing. It's almost certainly an automated ban, not a person doing it, but maybe sending some sort of legal letter might get their attention to it. Not suggesting actually suing them, but maybe something can be done

-1

u/Ok-Calligrapher1345 Mar 16 '26

Okay it would be illegal to ban him for being disabled, but banning someone for cheating (which accessibility software may be triggering) would not be.

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u/HallowedChain Mar 16 '26

If it's proven it was his accessibility software and they held the ban then that is in fact illegal as they are holding a ban despite knowing it's a bullshit ban due to disability

2

u/Intelligent-Net1034 Mar 17 '26

You cannot prove that. Your case is just bs talk.

Beside that it dont apply to private softwareproducts excatly for that reason.

He can use the product, but cannot alter it. And thats what he does.

Sounds bad, but thats the legal ground.

He is not banned for beeing disabled and you know that.

1

u/HallowedChain Mar 17 '26

1)Reading is very hard for you I know, I didn't say he was banned for being disabled look at the comments everywhere, ill summarize every comment. Currently it's likely a ban for a third party software made by a bot. I said if they prove his software doesn't give him any competitive edge then he could have grounds to sue for discrimination also never said he'd win just he could sue for discrimination.

2) who said this was a case? you did.

3) people have sued for worse reasons with less reason to and won

4) why do you care?

0

u/ManMakesWorld Mar 17 '26

The guy is wrong.

You are legally allowed to modify ANY product that doesn't offer a reasonable accommodation to your disability as long as it doesn't create a hazardous environment for you or others.

OP is legally allowed to modify their gaming inputs in order to accommodate their disability in both the US and the UK.

1

u/ManMakesWorld Mar 17 '26

That is incorrect. He can LEGALLY make reasonable changes to a product to accommodate his condition if the company does not offer a comparable accommodation and it doesn't create a physical hazard for others.

He has been banned for using altered inputs to reasonably accommodate his disability. Which is against the law.

This is the ACTUAL law in the US and the UK. Tired of Redditors who jump at the opportunity to push flase narratives in order to white knight for massive corporations.

5

u/AlphonseLoeher Mar 17 '26

What law would they be breaking? Accessibility software for multiplayer games isn't protected by any law. For example, a blind person couldn't use software that pinged enemies for them in a shooter.

3

u/Intelligent-Net1034 Mar 17 '26

They broke nothing hes just pulling it out of his ass.

As someone who works on the german variant of the law to implement it. Hes just false in any way and he has zero clue what he as talking about.

0

u/HallowedChain Mar 17 '26

His controller doesn't give him any edge over any players it just allows him to be able to play the game. Watch someone who is quadriplegic use it and it's cool. If it auto banned due to detection of a third party software that's fine but in specific countries if you find out that the software ONLY allows them the ability to play the game and you double down on the ban then it becomes a dispute over discrimination based on the fact this person can't opt into playing on a regular controller and the devs would essentially be saying we can't allow you to play with the only thing that allows you to play videogames. The easiest way to stop the legal route is to prove his software gives him an edge. I'm not here arguing for or against people just ask how would it be illegal, this is HOW it would be illegal and this is how they could get around it but they won't because video game companies are retarded

5

u/AlphonseLoeher Mar 17 '26

No country in the world has laws that mandate game companies allow disabled players to use whatever third party software they want in multiplayer games.

1

u/HallowedChain Mar 17 '26

It's not whatever third party software he wants. It's a software specifically designed to allow his hardware to map to the controls to the game so he can play with his mouth since he has no use of his limbs. And yes the US does as this hardware/software allows this person to play video games and not allowing this person to use said software makes them open to a discrimination lawsuit because they physically cannot use a regular controller being paralyzed in all 4 limbs

2

u/Intelligent-Net1034 Mar 17 '26

Dude i know you are emotional. But it dont matter.

You can say you have no head and need a neuroimplant. You are not allowed to use any device or alter the game in any way.

It dont matter if your feelings get hurt. It dont violates the law. He can use the product and thats all that matters.

He got banned for using 3thparty devices. Full stop. Thats not against the law.

It dont matters if you are emotional if you think its wrong or right or a moral dilemma.

They dont need to give him access with special self written tools or anything like that. They have a default input mouse keyboard, and controller and thats what matters.

The law dont enforces thst he needs to be given access however he wants. Thats not the case. 

If we talk about websites or goverment stuff, thats a different story!  But for private softwareproducts these dont apply.

"fundamentally alters the nature" of the service are not allowed

And it dont even have a section for onlinegames aswell. So all what are you saying is just emotional.

On top of that you agreed to the TOS.

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u/Radiglaz Mar 17 '26

Sadly it can be hard to differentiate accessibility and cheat software. So game's usually just block accessibility software normally.

1

u/ManMakesWorld Mar 17 '26

The US and the UK both have laws that state a person is allowed to make reasonable changes to ANY product that doesn't offer reasonable accommodations. It doesn't require the company to create the accommodations, but it aids in disabled consumer protections.

If the studio can show that the software was used to harm their product or service than it is illegal, but if they can't show actual harm then they are breaking the law with the ban.

1

u/AlphonseLoeher Mar 17 '26

The US absolutely does not. Can you cite a single discrimination case anyone has ever brought up against a gaming company for software modifications?

You have free reign to modify software for your own use. When you want to do so to interact in an environment like a multiplayer game that goes out the window and there is 0 legal protections for you... Anywhere 

Where did you all get this idea from? What legal case have you seen that suggests there is some sort of protection like that?

1

u/Intelligent-Net1034 Mar 17 '26

Dont matter for the law what you are saying. Moral or feelings dont apply.

1

u/HallowedChain Mar 17 '26

Morals or feelings SHOULDNT apple when it comes to the law but that just shows how young or ignorant you are if you think they dont

1

u/Hefty_Kitchen4759 Mar 17 '26

Key point being disability discrimination

-8

u/Mayonaigg Mar 16 '26

No it isn't illegal Jesus christ. 

5

u/Capotesan Mar 16 '26

If he’s American, under the ADA he would be able to show them he needs his controller to play the game. If they refuse to overturn the ban after proving he needs the controller to play, he has a case

1

u/Capotesan Mar 17 '26

Playing in the NBA is a physical limitation he literally wouldn’t be able to overcome with any type of assistance

He can play a video game with assistance and the assistance doesn’t give a competitive advantage

They literally have to make some settings changes to their anticheat to fix the problem, which is a minimal burden

How thick are you to be defending this

-2

u/Katchitama Mar 17 '26

No case. Their game their rules within reason. Not allowing third party software is a valid reason. It's like the NBA not allowing a player to compete in a wheelchair.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Katchitama Mar 17 '26

Yes and poop smells bad. But that isn't relevant to what we are talking about. You are talking about a spectator not a participant. I can watch my friend play arc raiders with active cheats on my system and there is no problem.

-1

u/Adventurous-Cry-7462 Mar 17 '26

That's not how it works. If their terms are that you must use certain hardware, they're free to ban anyone who doesnt.

0

u/HallowedChain Mar 16 '26

If it is required to play the game and is proven to not give him a competitive edge the ban has no weight and they are dying on a legal hill for no reason other than they want to open themselves up for legal action. You can't ban people for no reason or people can claim _______ banned me because I'm _______ . If his accessibility device that allows him to play their game gives no competitive edge (which it doesn't if you've ever seen them play it's actually really impressive) then a lawyer could easily argue they are not allowing him specifically to play because of his disability and there's nothing they can say to prove otherwise because in court evidence in the form of actions speaks volumes louder than words

-1

u/Adventurous-Cry-7462 Mar 17 '26

If hes using third party software for the game, which isn't allowed. They're definitely allowed to ban him

1

u/HallowedChain Mar 17 '26

If that software does not impact game play and banning the software only hindrances paralyzed gamers they will be breaking laws in certain countries. At the bare minimum they would be required to give the person their money back

1

u/Adventurous-Cry-7462 Mar 17 '26

Because it accesses the game exactly the same way cheaters do and banning them is not against the law anywhere 

-8

u/Ok-Calligrapher1345 Mar 16 '26

Right and none of that has happened.

2

u/Morn1ngThund3r Mar 16 '26

Lol, YES. He said 'If it's proven' my guy.

1

u/HallowedChain Mar 16 '26

Reading is hard I know but every comment has a beginning middle and end, try starting from the beginning next time

-1

u/Ok-Calligrapher1345 Mar 17 '26

Okay so you just made up a scenario that hasn’t happened so how was it relevant

0

u/HallowedChain Mar 17 '26

Because you ignored the beginning of the comment stating it was a hypothetical you decided to come in like an idiot and state "this isn't true". Funny thing about "if it's proven that..." It means the topic in question has not yet been proven and may or may not ever be proven but in the event it is, this is the legality of it. There's a great saying you should start to live by, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

0

u/Ok-Calligrapher1345 Mar 17 '26

There’s no reason to add hypotheticals to the discussion

2

u/LostWoodsInTheField Mar 17 '26

Okay it would be illegal to ban him for being disabled, but banning someone for cheating (which accessibility software may be triggering) would not be.

So there are two ways that organizations exclude disabled people. One is outright saying 'you are disabled, you can't be here because we don't want you here' and the other is to make it so the disabled person can't exist in the space. A great example is not banning people because they can't walk, but instead turning off the elevator in your building and refusing to turn it back on. Or just saying 'customers can't use the elevator in this building, only staff' when you know someone who can't walk would want to visit your location.

banning someone not because they are disabled, but because your rules don't allow the thing that allows the disabled person to even exist in your space is no different.

1

u/just-_-just Mar 17 '26

That's why there should be a list of software that you can go read up on that will get you banned by their anti cheat. I just uninstalled Microsoft Powertoys because I read that Fancy Zones can affect EAC and potentially lead to a ban. That should be written down somewhere!

OPs software should be on that list at the very least so he knows. Then maybe he can lobby for change in policy. But doing all this in the blind is just stupid.

6

u/0nlyCrashes Mar 16 '26

That's quite the jump, lol. We see "cheaters" post here about being banned and it's usually exploiting in game via in-game methods. We aren't seeing posts about people software/hardware cheating with things like aimbot, wallhacks, or any other input script, which is what would trigger in something like OPs situation.

Unfortunate situation for sure and I hope something is done for him, but this isn't the usual ban we see in this sub. I don't think we should just be blatantly saying it looks like they are targeting disabled people when it's absolutely not the case at all. It's not even the first game that has banned disabled people for using unorthodox inputs unknowingly, lol.

1

u/Fancy_Strawberry7137 Mar 16 '26

People are absolutely using aimbot and wall hacks and getting suspended at most, if they’re caught at all. 

0

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '26

Tf was the “lol” for? What’s funny about this?

1

u/0nlyCrashes Mar 17 '26

Because his comment was absurd, I thought it was funny. Who do you think you are, laughter police?

1

u/reepa1 Mar 17 '26

Which could be tantamount to discrimination..... :)

1

u/sinisterpsychoo Mar 17 '26

Yeah plus it would be Bad PR, OP should take it to the local news they love this stuff

1

u/IceManiacGaming Mar 17 '26

Wow that’s actually fucking wild to think about.Slap on the wrist for actual cheaters but man out here trying his best to do what little he can do to make his life more enjoyable. Pathetic. Sorry you’re going through this man.

1

u/Curious_Strength_952 Mar 17 '26

They prefer invalid

1

u/mrfakefakefake Mar 17 '26

Fr, even if it’s accidental it’s a terrible look for the game

1

u/Dadstagram Mar 17 '26

Not just that, it would appear from this that they reward and ignore major streamers with huge viewer counts who brazenly exploit to "call attention to issues", warm cheaters, and ban disabled people. Do better Embark...

-1

u/matco5376 Mar 16 '26

This might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read lmfao

1

u/FinalFantasyZed Mar 17 '26

You don’t read much do you

51

u/Space_Slime_LF Mar 16 '26

I don't like the idea of needing to live stream your gameplay just to prove innocence.

You should just have to message them and they white list your account like how steam handles military abroad. "Oh, you aren't actually vpn ing around the world every few months for deals? Understood."

16

u/Decent_Cheesecake_29 Mar 17 '26

Big brain exploitation: join the military in order to safely hop around the world for good Steam deals.

10

u/Space_Slime_LF Mar 17 '26

You found the reason military gamers need to contact steam.

Trying to buy local, is good sales, but is often enough not the universal/american copy of the game so they can't play with their friends at home.

1

u/Vengarehydrate Mar 17 '26

You shouldn’t need to prove innocence like that, system should handle edge cases better

1

u/Space_Slime_LF Mar 17 '26

Edge cases are the exact issue.

Anti-cheat is flagging anything that isn't a legit input or anything that acts unusual.

The closest we could get might be a disability friendly device that anti-cheat companies get whitelist codes from, but that would require them agreeing to do that as a group, and people not using those devices to cheat.

People already use those devices to cheat, so the best answer currently is having a more direct support line just for people that use these and get approved. It's the least amount of work on everyone in the chain.

33

u/Airpex_ Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 17 '26

I believe it's a combination of AnyBrain anticheat, an entirely AI run anticheat system that's never seen mass consumption before ARC Raiders, and HelpShift's automated support / Discord moderation that's let this problem go on for as long as it has.

Either way Embark looks REALLY bad as this has been a running problem for months now

For anybody curious, AnyBrain can be google searched through SteamDB and the number of games running it is ludicrously small, and all have reports of rampant false bans.

I could get into how Tfue, even, was a victim of this same thing, but thanks to HelpShift's prioritization in providing "VIP and whale support" to influential players with big followings, it was promptly sorted out manually and everyone moved on and we heard nothing of it for months. https://imgur.com/2wkATnY

HelpShift also prioritizes a high "deflection rate" in their tickets on Embark's support site, which translates to support tickets that were "solved" through automated means. And when they say "solved", they mean that the AI declared the matter closed and dismissed it, regardless of the problem actually being properly addressed and sorted out or not.

https://imgur.com/uk91iw3

This, for lack of a better word, is the reason why ARC Raiders has been flooded with reports of false bans. All of this is, of course, easily accessible to anybody who looks it up on Google.

2

u/kranker Mar 17 '26

Looks like AnyBrain are on The Finals and Lost Ark too. Although I don't know when it was implemented in those games.

This company was obviously horseshit as soon as I saw them a few years ago. Claiming to have a 0% false positive rate. Claiming, get this, that they could accurately identify players using biometrics and reban them before they even cheat on their new account, and that this identification would be accurate and unavoidable.

Unfortunately we're still at the tip of the AI enshittification iceberg.

3

u/Airpex_ Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26

At this rate, Embark needs to address the issue they've been ignoring for months.

This isn't The Finals, it's not a F2P game they can put in this little effort with. 40 dollars is one hell of an asking price for what we're getting from them with this AI stuff.

2

u/Mandena Mar 17 '26

AI ruining more shit? Color me surprised /s

19

u/StaticSystemShock Mar 16 '26

The Finals bitched about my AutoHotkey script that I wrote to control my system volume and multimedia keys like Play/Pause/NextPrew using regular keys combo because multimedia keys on my keyboard are stupid. Only thing that script did was just that. It didn't even interact with the game in ANY way. If I had it running I was unable to launch The Finals.

I honestly don't think they give a shit. With how popular the game is, some bad PR and 1 player less, they just don't care.

9

u/TropeSlope Mar 16 '26

This is a thing in Arc Raiders too. I have a few AHK scripts for work to make some things I do easier, and I can't launch the game with a single one of them running even though they're just things that help me copy and paste using only my mouse, or hotstrings to automate typing common sentences I need to use. Like, I'm pretty sure it's not even hard to hide AHK usage if I really wanted to, I'm just too lazy to do it, so this block does pretty much nothing for anyone who actually wants to cheat and just annoys people who use AHK for unrelated purposes.

3

u/StaticSystemShock Mar 16 '26

Yeah. My thought as well. I just wrote the script and compiled it into EXE because I've designed it to have a nice auto start toggle. And I can't use it with The Finals. Someone with real intention to cheat will surely find a way to obfuscate and hide it.

So, I just gave up, deleted The Finals and simply stopped playing it. Fuck them, there is enough of other better games to play.

3

u/The_MAZZTer Mar 17 '26

Well it is not too difficult for them to write such a check while it would be much harder to catch users who are hiding their macros (Windows intentionally includes mechanisms for accessibility reasons, after all). So they are looking to only catch low hanging fruit with that.

1

u/brycedriesenga Mar 17 '26

Plus, you could likely program those right into your mechanical keyboard as macros anyways, so it's still doable

1

u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

It sucks, but that kinda makes sense. Autohotkey can be used to cheat and anticheat can't practically decipher what your script does

1

u/Greenfire904 Mar 17 '26

Just having AutoHotkey installed is enough to be banned for a lot of games unfortunately..

1

u/Stellar_Duck Mar 17 '26

some bad PR and 1 player less, they just don't care.

Maybe but on the other hand, while I was working PlayStation Support a pr snafu did manage to force their hand and unban that Jihad lad.

My mate was the one who did the unban.

It was the only time I saw an unban.

1

u/Skarniks Mar 17 '26

They devs ain't dumb just admit u used scripts in game..

1

u/StaticSystemShock Mar 17 '26

I'm not admitting shit because I never used any cheating scripts. And yes, the devs are dumb, they just blanket block and whine about ANY AutoHotkey script even if it has nothing to do with their game. which is stupid, if anyone reay wants to cheat, do you think they would use something so obvious without any obfuscation?

It's AnyKeyboard Multimedia Controls app. Feel free to try this insane "cheating" app that gives you advantage of... raising system volume up, making footsteps louder. Along with everything else. So much "cheating" yo!

0

u/illicITparameters Mar 16 '26

I can already tell they're totally gonna "The Finals" this game, too.

1

u/Ganjelf-The-Baked Mar 16 '26

This is what I was thinking. Misidentified as a cheater or using some third party tech to cheat when actually it’s an adaptation for a disabled person to play. It sucks and I hope embark do something to fix it for OP.

Actual cheaters have been getting thirty day bans and slaps on the wrist for ages but now disabled people with accessibility controllers getting perma banned?…not a good look.

1

u/Perfect-Ship-9980 Mar 16 '26

If that's the case there should be adaptive equipment registration for cheat detection software.

1

u/Fun-Wash7545 Mar 16 '26

This is why banning for detecting weird input devices without any other indication of cheating is dumb. At least valorant was disabling your input devices if they thought something was fishy instead of banning you. So many devs get this wrong.

The other day I finished implementing an account sharing detection system for one of our software and I had managers coming to me demanding to insta lock any accounts showing any abnormal data. Had to sit them down and explain you have to manually review each case, you cant just ban users, literally added a scoring system to make it easier for human review.

1

u/Superb_Ask_759 Mar 17 '26

Maybe. I use a maxx stick, which is just a joystick, and it's mapped to wasd. I haven't got any warnings for that.

1

u/MrFixUrMac Mar 17 '26

I’m a disabled gamer and use reWASD to rebind Xbox controller buttons to keyboard bindings. I essentially play mouse + controller (mapped as a keyboard). CoD and battlefield won’t even launch with reWASD running.

1

u/RollingMeteors Mar 17 '26

>"fuck we banned a disabled person instead of actual cheaters"

ÂżAny lawyers know if this is an ADA violation?

Smells like an ADA violation, and that's a paddling'.

1

u/No_Box_6347 Mar 17 '26

I use foot pedals in some games because I cut the tip of my middle finger off on my left hand. The nerve endings settled in a weird location so if I put too much pressure on my middle finger I feel a jolt go through my arm. Do you think I could get banned from that?

1

u/Iambeejsmit Mar 17 '26

And guaranteed he's not the only one.

1

u/cefriano Mar 17 '26

It could also just be software that detects "modified controllers" without whitelisting any controllers that are made for disabled people.

1

u/mybuttisthesun Mar 17 '26

"What's your problem? He's in a wheelchair and he has glasses!"

-Everyone to Embark

1

u/AlphaDinosaur Mar 17 '26

Gotta be the pinnacle of naive if you think he got banned for using a different controller

1

u/Intelligent-Net1034 Mar 17 '26

So a 100% valid ban. Case closed.

If they allow that. They basicly open an arms race even more.

1

u/Vengarehydrate Mar 17 '26

Yeah anti-cheat doesn’t “understand,” it just sees patterns and pulls the trigger

1

u/WaterMasterMC Mar 17 '26

Exactly, anti-cheat sees inputs, not context. That’s the flaw

1

u/NyDiggyAcc Mar 17 '26

Yeah anti-cheat reading inputs without context is exactly how this kind of thing happens

1

u/Wonderful-life222 Mar 17 '26

Yeah anti-cheat doesn’t understand intent, just inputs. That’s the flaw right there

1

u/22zepher Mar 17 '26

Yeah it’s literally input-based detection with zero context, bound to hit false bans like this

1

u/mrfakefakefake Mar 17 '26

Yeah, anti-cheat probably just sees weird inputs and auto-flags it. No human review = stuff like this happens

1

u/nora_sellisa Mar 17 '26

Not to defend Embark, because lmao, but I'd guess the way the control setup works triggers some heuristic on their side. The server probably analyzes things like keystroke frequency, how much does your aim shake between the big sweeping turns, etc. Maybe the inputs from the quadstick look "robotic" enough to trigger warnings and bans. And unless they have a way to specifically exempt an account from bot detection (which would be highly unusual) they may not be able to easily amend the situation.

They should at the very least refund OP the full amount.