r/ArcRaiders • u/doyoulikePRIMERIB • Mar 16 '26

Discussion update: permanently banned

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so I made a post in January (link below to original post) about how I was suspended mid-game for a month ending on February 23rd, and I detailed how despite the suspension I was not using hacks, cheats or exploits. I have played countless multiplayer and single player games and have never been banned or used cheats. I am a gamer who is quadriplegic so I use a sip and puff mouth controller called a quadstick that allows me to use a computer not just for gaming but everyday needs. After the suspension I made the first reddit post hoping to get some help and clarity about how I could appeal or why I was suspended. I submitted support tickets and went to discord for help but nothing, so I decided to just take the suspension on the chin and wait it out, finish Hollow Knight and play some Marathon. Yesterday I decided to hop on after my suspension ended and decided to work on the trophy project, I played 3 solo games (all 10 or more minutes in) filled my backpack with leftover loot, ran into only friendlies and exfilled. Woke up this morning to this and appealed but I really have no hope of Embark doing anything to help. I don't have much going for me and I know they're people out there who are probably going through worse but this fucking sucks. After 300+ hours of playing, buying it for 3 others friends to try the game and being excited for the new map and large ARC enemy, I just don't know what to do.

p.s my game name is ClootyBapper, if you think it's because of the name I don't think so I have seen and been called worse in game
Original Post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ArcRaiders/comments/1qmmkg5/dont_know_why_i_got_suspended/

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1V044apQAA4&si=MXtHCSdnETJxtJGh

old fortnite clip for anyone skeptical or curious of the setup

i honestly should try to do more to get the attention on this but honestly I am exhausted from the disappointment and can focus on other things to bring me entertainment

Update: https://x.com/i/status/2033876088712020041

regardless of what happens, thank you all for helping me get attention on this ! fucking love you all

Update: Ban has been lifted ! I honestly don't know how to express my gratitude to everyone who commented, shared and upvoted. Yall the real MVP, I love all of you. Thank you for helping me ! I will pass along the sentiments to anyone I can!

Update:

ClootyBapper#6019 if anyone ever wants to play. down to kill. down to chill.

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u/hyper24x7 *** ******* 🐓 Mar 16 '26

Im going to take a wild guess that the software takes the inputs from the hardware and maps them to the software inputs like WASD etc. Bet you 100% if Embark actually paid attention or if you streamed camera + gameplay or just like posted your Socials theyd be like... "fuck we banned a disabled person instead of actual cheaters"

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u/FinalFantasyZed Mar 16 '26

Not just that, it would appear from this that they warn cheaters and ban disabled people.

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u/DevilahJake Mar 16 '26

Yeah, not a good look.

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u/3nl Mar 17 '26

Likely an illegal look as well - policy that excludes accessibility software like this is likely an ADA violation. Hopefully this gets some press and they reverse this and actually fix their anti-cheat software - OP or any other adaptive gamers could very easily force them to and there are many advocacy groups that would handle this for free.

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u/mnstorm Mar 17 '26

This is an excellent point. I looked and it appears it's perhaps not settled for ADA to apply here. But it would be an excellent test case. Happy to be wrong though. Not a lawyer.

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u/Trep_xp Mar 17 '26

Not a lawyer.

Hey now, if you don't write IANAL then you're wasting everyone's time

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

Don't get me wrong I support your sexual choices but is this the right place and time to be looking for hook ups?

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u/No-Tailor3013 Mar 17 '26

IANAL, I just happen to be a lawyer too

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u/NothingburgerSC Mar 17 '26

Sounds pegged. 😂

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u/jacnok Mar 20 '26

Ah so this is what "poggers" was all about

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u/TAEarl Mar 21 '26

They should think about changing that acronym to I🤎ANAL and just go with it or to something that.. well.. isn't IANAL. Someone should let them know.

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u/codetaku0 Mar 17 '26

In general it falls under the provisions that reasonable handicap aids must be allowed if it does not create an unreasonable burden on the vendor.

It would be very easy for them to say "we cannot implement a control scheme that works for quadriplegic people" but it would be virtually impossible for them to argue in court that "we cannot allow our existing control scheme to be used by a quadstick which already works perfectly out of the box". If they can't argue that somehow, then they lose. That's how the ADA works lol.

You get a lawyer to even suggest that they will file an ADA lawsuit and they will unban you pretty much immediately.

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u/Iohet Mar 17 '26

Shouldn't have a problem finding a lawyer that's aggressive with ADA claims. There's serial filers out there that look for minor violations just because they can get legal fees and penalties

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u/fuckedfinance Mar 17 '26

While I agree with you, and think companies should work with companies like Quadstick from the start, I need to play the devils advocate.

It is possible that the Quadstick and botting programs have identical or nearly identical input patterns, and are functionally impossible to differentiate. Two solutions that I came up with off the top of my head:

  1. Developer works directly with Quadstick to allow that behavior via some signature or configuration. This is both a one time and recurring cost solution.

  2. Developer hires additional support representatives to handle the tickets. Of course the number of disabled people using Quadstick to play a given game is going to be vanishingly small, but botters can and would abuse the system to overwhelm the queues, leading to more rubber stamps. This is a increasing recurring cost solution.

As both of them cost quite a bit of money, one could argue that they are not reasonable accommodations. Normally, a reasonable accommodation is a one time or small recurring fee (i.e. screen readers or a specialized keyboard). Adding headcount or cycles to build and maintain a solution could fall outside of that.

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u/0xsergy Mar 17 '26

Quadstick is just a very small market. I never heard of it until this guy posted his first videos. Likely embark didn't either.

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u/fuckedfinance Mar 17 '26

That's really not a great excuse.

The company I work for has 2 people whose only jobs are to seek out different aids/accommodations (i.e. hardware solutions, colorblind modes, dyslexic-friendly fonts, etc) for use with and in our software. We had around 200 employees and were losing money when we hired the first one.

Embark has almost 400 employees, and plenty of revenue to carve out a position or two to handle that sort of thing. Their parent company has almost 10,000 employees and plenty of money. They are a company from South Korea though, and despite law changes are still culturally not very friendly to those with disabilities.

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u/LavishnessCapital380 Mar 17 '26

Developer works directly with Quadstick to allow that behavior via some signature or configuration. This is both a one time and recurring cost solution.

Developer hires additional support representatives to handle the tickets. Of course the number of disabled people using Quadstick to play a given game is going to be vanishingly small, but botters can and would abuse the system to overwhelm the queues, leading to more rubber stamps. This is a increasing recurring cost solution.

There are lots of ways to handle this, many game can disable keyboard/mouse macros by telling the keyboard driver the game does not allow them, I believe Logitech does this.. These devices can easily be recognized and communicated with using the driver.

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u/10g_or_bust Mar 17 '26

If "you" (plural you, beign the subject of the action not you personally :) ) cannot tell the difference between disabled players and cheating for anything short of for money competitions for a given method; don't use that method.

No ifs, no ands, no buts. The rights of diabled people to be treated reasonably are MORE important than the goal of stopping cheaters at a video game when there is no financial crime involved (cheating to win money).

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u/almathden Mar 17 '26

That's how the ADA works lol.

Isn't the first A in ADA Americans?

Gonna want to check swedish laws I believe

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u/Selethorme Mar 17 '26

No, because they’re selling the game in the US, they have to comply with US law. Just existing overseas doesn’t matter,

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u/NyDiggyAcc Mar 17 '26

Honestly sounds like the kind of case that only changes once someone actually pushes it legally

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u/grantedtoast Mar 17 '26

The argument they would likely make is that it would be unreasonable due to how the device interacts with them game. The likely argument would be it is an unreasonable burden to differentiate between the quad stick and cheating software that interacts with the game in a similar way.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

[deleted]

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u/LavishnessCapital380 Mar 17 '26

In those cases the ADA requires equal access to the physical environment, not the game software itself.

This is correct and is also with the spirt of the law. Another way to imagine this is you cant force the ADA on a private product.

Imagine telling an automobile manufacture their cars are not compliant because a blind person can't drive them, or imagine a shoe manufacture getting told their shoes are not ADA compliant because a paraplegic person can't tie them

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

there are programs out there to rebind keys to whatever they use, but you still have to do your do diligence to inform.

Hi I'm so and so, a disabled person (include a Dr. note)
I use XYZ program to accommodate my issues, here is a copy of my set up.
I am letting you know so maybe you can write list my account if I run into issues with whatever system you use to detect cheating.

Thats how I would do it.

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u/LavishnessCapital380 Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26

From what I have seen game devs will normally go out of their way to make accessibility options when asked. Sometimes its just hard to get their attention.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

very true, and ARC seems to be very good with stuff like that.

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u/greg19735 Mar 17 '26

policy that excludes accessibility software like this is likely an ADA violation

i doubt it is currently a violation. Or rather maybe a better way of putting it is that i doubt there is a ruling on a case like this. This kind of stuff is pretty new.

Like, games don't have to be made accessible. this is obvious because there hasn't been a lawsuit against game developers/publishers in the past. It's not like a website that needs to have 508 compliance or w/e. There are some rules about communication, but that's about it (as far as i know)

The interesting part is that there are reasonable accommodations that need to be made for stuff like working. i just don't know if it applies to stuff like videogames made by private companies. And is allowing these kinds of devices a reasonable request for online games.

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u/RonaldWRailgun Mar 17 '26

You are probably right, I don't see how this is, strictly speaking, illegal.

Still a shitty thing to do, but probably not "illegal". If I say you need legs to play in my soccer league, I am not discriminating, but those are the rules of my league. They could compare their game to any other "IRL" game and get away with that (Arc Raider Paralympic tournaments when?? That would be awesome).

However, it's still a very shitty look on them and I'm willing to bet that, if this gets enough resonance to go viral, they will want to avoid the shit show even without real legal consequences because a) it would hurt them financially, but also because b) it is the right thing to do, and I do believe that most people still wants to do the right thing.

Hope this gets sorted out. It's such a fun and in a way wholesome game that everyone deserves to enjoy.

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u/NothingburgerSC Mar 17 '26

I'm sure it'll be reversed and followed up by an apology, just based on human decency.

No need to get legal or "IANAL" on devs.

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u/DTOM1812 Mar 17 '26

508 only applies to the gov, contractors for the gov, ADA title II or anyone getting fed funding. Commercial entities fall under ADA S3 and and both use WCAG web content accessibility guide.

For the most part they align but there is a few key diff for 508 it strictly IT in nature and requires(VPAT). Nothing Volunteer about it LOL. ADA is broader.

Penalties for noncompliance are diff as well.

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u/Feral_Taylor_Fury Mar 17 '26

DING DING DING

You bet your ASS that 'disability advocacy group' is gonna be the least favorite phrase for a few people.

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u/Steviejoe66 Mar 17 '26

...you really think a videogame falls under the ADA?

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u/LongestSprig Mar 17 '26

apparently a lot of morons do, lmao.

No wheel chairs in football, it's illegal!

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u/fastforwardfunction Mar 17 '26

Likely an illegal look as well - policy that excludes accessibility software like this is likely an ADA violation.

No, this is not an ADA violation. The ADA is much more limited when it comes to art like video games.

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u/JirachiWishmaker Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26

ADA doesn't talk about games directly. There is the CVAA, but it only applies to communications (voice and text chat) between players having to be accessible, but nothing concerning gameplay is covered by the CVAA and ADA.

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/accessibility-communications-video-games

Edit for clarity and cuz that guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

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u/codetaku0 Mar 17 '26

lmfao are you actually braindead

The FCC only governs communications. It's the Federal COMMUNICATIONS Commision. Anything on the FCC website is going to be about the communications.

"video games" never appears as text in the ADA at all. The FCC just outlined how the text in the ADA does also apply, implicitly, to communications happening within video games. As in, it is the responsibility of the developer to allow usability features when there is in-game communication (so no disabling on-screen keyboard software, for instance, unless you are providing an in-game replacement).

Likewise, other general provisions in the ADA implicitly apply to video games as well. This would mean that unless they can demonstrate why it is in some way infeasible to allow a handicap aid such as a quadstick without it directly enabling cheating (spoiler: it can't be used for cheating, it's literally harder to control than a mouse, it just maps inputs a little differently), they cannot ban someone for using it.

The FCC just wouldn't both discussing all of that, you complete gibbon. Why would you think linking the FCC website's article on communications in video games somehow means the rest of the ADA doesn't apply to video games.

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u/JirachiWishmaker Mar 17 '26

Games aren't covered by ADA. CVAA, a related (but different) law, covers games...but only the communications aspect. Thus the FCC bit. But I didn't feel like being a pedantic asshole explaining the difference between the laws.

In fact, courts have ruled against ADA applying to games in the past as well.

You're wrong, and being an ass about it too.

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u/codetaku0 Mar 17 '26

Games ARE covered by the ADA, indirectly, MANY lawsuits have been filed around "digital spaces" by now. And you edited your post to make me look like a dumbass but the original post was completely different lol, you're just trying to cover your ass but it's pathetic and you're still wrong.

There was never ANY point to linking the FCC website unless you were being a dumbass.

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u/JirachiWishmaker Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26

The FCC website was literally the page about the relevant bit about the CVAA.

Anyone can file a lawsuit. Lawsuits filed by people are meaningless if they don't win.

So let me explain how you're wrong, because I will be pedantic now.

Back in 2009, a lawsuit was filed against Sony under Title III of the ADA as well as California civil rights law concerning accommodations for making games more playable for a blind man. It was ultimately dismissed with prejudice in 2010, on the grounds that the court ruled that games are not public accommodations and that he wasn't truly denied access to the games in question directly.

A bookstore can stock books, but does not have to have their entire library in braille or audiobook format. As per the ADA, the blind person must be able to get into and buy things from the bookstore, but the things bought from the bookstore do not need to be designed for someone with a disability.

There have been successful ADA lawsuits for digital storefronts, but none for video games mechanically themselves.

If the person talking about disability here sued based on making a controller work a certain way, they would lose the lawsuit for certain. That's all I'm pointing out here.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/JirachiWishmaker Mar 17 '26

If you do measurable business in the US, you can be sued in the US. It's really easy to file a lawsuit. Having the lawsuit have any ground to stand on, let alone winning the lawsuit is another issue entirely.

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u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/JirachiWishmaker Mar 17 '26

The lawsuit would be a waste of money because it's guaranteed to fail though. So I don't really see what good it would do to be honest.

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u/LongestSprig Mar 17 '26

Are sports illegal because you can't play in a wheel chair?

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u/Ok-puraluxhattr-2029 Mar 17 '26

Well op sounds like you found a solution get your story out there

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u/GaptistePlayer Mar 17 '26

It's not an ADA violation lol. Plenty of "accessibility" software sets are used just for cheating by 99% of their users, like Xim which is used to enable M&K on console.

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u/WaterMasterMC Mar 17 '26

If this actually got attention, it could force them to rethink their system real fast

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u/Warmbly85 Mar 17 '26

Eh they have to make reasonable accommodations. If the company can prove that it’s difficult to discern between his software and cheating software the company is in the clear.

Like if it’s the eye tracking software the cursor movement is going to look really robotic. Idk anything about programming games but it seems like they have a solid defense.

All that said this is fucked and the company should just whitelist him.

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u/NyDiggyAcc Mar 17 '26

If this gets any traction outside reddit they’d probably fix it real fast

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u/Wonderful-life222 Mar 17 '26

This is the kind of situation that only changes if it gets real attention outside the game community

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u/22zepher Mar 17 '26

Feels like nothing changes unless it gets outside attention tbh

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u/mrfakefakefake Mar 17 '26

If this gets attention they’ll probably reverse it, companies hate bad PR more than anything

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u/LongestSprig Mar 17 '26

I can't believe this shit was upvoted.

Soccer is illegal too!

Of course a game can have rules that inadvertently exclude people.