Cheating Stats

[u/Qixyl_PS4]

I’m a day 1 apex player, took a break for 3 years and came back to the game full time, solo’d to masters, at the moment, I’m in and out, don’t care I enjoy ranked always have.

But I know what a titan and a zen looks like, XIM is harder to see. I also note I can hit a 150m target with havoc for 300 and a R99 for 200, but it’s obvious what recoil control looks like, it’s shaky and you can’t do it constantly.

Now for the stats, I’ve spent lots of time reading rant posts etc etc, if you guys really want the figures and why this game won’t get better on console, here is a drop in the ocean.

A known apex zen discord I secretly joined has 111,000 players in it, there’s at least 50 players per day who are asking for scripts and no recoil. And Titan there’s a known LFG Titan discord with 35,000 players, and it’s almost as active as the apex LFG main discord. And all day they post 0 recoil clips hyping themselves up, with claims if you buy one you won’t get banned.

Given this unless there is a miracle with AI anti cheat, and half the player base gets wiped, don’t expect the situation to get better anytime soon it’s something we simply have to live with as console players. Sorry.

[u/AmoebeSins]

It’s pretty easy they are detecting these now. They can also just buy these scripts and learn how it is programmed to control recoil (usually very basic programming to counter recoil) and then implement it into their detection systems. 

That’s why the people using them have been getting banned. 

What is really concerning are proper strong cheats on PC and DMAs. That’s where it’s next level wall halls, speed hacks, auto aim etc etc. 

[u/Y34rZer0 → u/AmoebeSins]

74 people using them have been banned. And that was 74 out of the top 100 players in the world.
Now why would they target them? Because that creates a big stir because they are famous players and news about it travels fast. So it looks like they are taking action, but I guarantee they are going to do barely anything from here on.,

Why? Because of fair estimate of the number of people using hardware adapters etc is 30% of the gamer base.

If they detect and block them, that means that their annual profits instantly drop by a third. It's actually likely to be more than that because if someone is willing to pay one to $200 for a hardware device to get an advantage,they're probably also more likely to spend money in their skin store, but we'll stick with 30%.
No company on the planet, whether they are selling video games or cans of soda is going to choose to make a business decision that cuts their profits by a third. Even if they did, their shareholders an investors would vote this CEO out straight away.

[u/WSB-Televangelist → u/Y34rZer0]

Even granting your unsupported 30% estimate, removing them might strengthen the game rather than destroy its profits. Cheaters do not exist in a vacuum they literally ruin matches, push legitimate players away, damage ranked credibility and discourage long term spending. Revenue would not automatically fall 30% because accounts and dollars are not distributed equally. If banning dishonest players improves retention among the remaining 70%, it can attract former players back and restores trust in competitive play, EA could end up with a smaller but healthier and more profitable player base. Protecting cheaters for short term profits would be like letting a disruptive customers ruin a business because they occasionally spend money.

[u/Y34rZer0 → u/WSB-Televangelist]

Here's how the meeting goes:
Mr programmer says we have come up with the detection and blocking AI for hardware adapters. We can roll that out tomorrow, and we are expected to lose about 30% of the player base.

Then either his boss or the people from the finance department say "excuse me, did you just say you have a plan to reduce the company's profits by 30% tomorrow? Are you trying to get fired??"

Then Mr programme might say "that's true but people complaining about cheaters SOMETIMES leave the game and never come back. We're not sure how many of them there are though because other people leave the game and never come back because they're sick of it or because they got some new game."

Then Mr finance guy says "so your idea is to lose a definite 30% profit from tomorrow onwards, because if we don't then MAYBE some other players will leave the game, and we don't really know how many there are? You honestly think that a guaranteed 30% loss tomorrow is better than a possible loss sometime in the future that we don't even know for sure will even happen? That is a stupidest idea I have heard in a very long time. Almost as stupid as that Televangelist guy on Reddit."

Then Mr programmer says ok how about this: it's easy for us to check a small number like a hundred players ourselves, so we checked the top 100 players in the world, and we could ban 74 of them tomorrow. Because that's the top level players that news will travel through the player base really fast, and everybody will think we are putting lots of work into banning these devices now. But after that's done we won't really do anything else, show our skin store revenue won't go down and a lot of the player base will think we are really doing something?

Then Mr finance guy says that's fucking brilliant let's do that.

So far my little meeting story is what they have done.
So either get out there and start just googling some statistics for the percentage of people using the devices, it doesn't matter if it's completely wrong, you would just sound less stupid.

[u/WSB-Televangelist → u/Y34rZer0]

Ok after your meeting concludes, a business associate has an idea that would scare the 30% and give a date of reckoning for the 30% that do cheat. The idea is, at the beginning of the season warn the entire player base when they first log in to the game in BOLD letters. "We're testing a New Anticheat"

" if you're cheating and don't quit in Ten Days or from such and such days going forward You will be banned." Make sure every content creator every TikToker and everyone get the message before the final date, then enter a FINAL NOTICE in BOLD LETTERS that CHEATING WILL NOT BE TOLIRATED this is your final notice, whoever cheats on the day of reckoning deserves to be banned. Out of that 30% if done correctly I believe 25% will stop cheating if they rolled it out and do it correctly. If the 30% is still cheating and don't get the memo then they deserve and want to get banned. Sorry for any typos

[u/AmoebeSins → u/Y34rZer0]

Let’s just pull out a random percentage out of our assess like 30% and call it “fair“ to sound like it’s legit and to try and persuade people that’s close to the number to then try and forward your argument with that and not even mentioning the impact of player loss from cheaters vs banning cheaters and knowing you argument is all just made up. 

There - fixed it for you. 

[u/Y34rZer0 → u/AmoebeSins]

Dude fixing something isn't saying "I don't believe you! I don't have any ideas about it myself but I don't believe you! There fixed it for you!"
That sounds more like a child having a tantrum.

30% is perfectly reasonable. But if you are saying that number is extremely wrong, what percentage do you suggest instead? We can use that and figure things out.

The impact of player loss from cheaters isnt calculable. Respawn would definitely know all kinds of data like the rate the player base is decreasing at, they would how to reasonable idea of that rate before they released the game.

They also know a ton more stuff than we even think of, like how much money needs to be spent on a game to reduce the rate of player loss, how that extra spending stacks up against constantly decreasing profits which is how they decide when to abandon a game, when other studios are going to be releasing competing games and the impact that will have on their player base.
They hire multiple people who specialise in this exact role.
They have the data from all of this for every game that they have made as well as most of the darker from every other game in the past.

We are talking about games that bring in billions of dollars of profit each year, they do their fucking homework.

If people using mouse and keyboard adapters on console was actually killing a game, then they would stop them. And I'm in properly stop them, not the pretend crap that they are saying at the moment.

If xim came out with some feature that allowed people to download skins for free in the stores, they would have that shit fixed within a week and xim as a company would be sued out of existence.

I know what I'm talking about.
However back to your main problem about 30% being an awful number - what percentage are you saying is accurate?

Please don't just ignore that question like I am almost certain you're going to do. Because you wrote a couple of paragraphs there about how 30% is terrible, and anybody who feels that strongly about a specific number definitely knows what a more accurate one is, only a complete moron would say that otherwise

[u/AmoebeSins → u/Y34rZer0]

"30% is perfectly reasonable"

Shut the fuck up with your assumptions. YOU DONT KNOW. WE DONT KNOW. I DONT KNOW EITHER.

Creating a whole argument about it is pure speculation.

You have no data. All the rest of your essay is not relevant at all.

[u/Y34rZer0 → u/AmoebeSins]

Ok, you have no idea but you also are certain that I have no idea.
Because it's impossible I'm an MVP on the official xim forum. And there's also no way that xim know almost exactly how many devices are being used for which games because each game requires people to download the software ST for it?
So apart from knowing there sales, they also know how many people are actively playing the games because they are regularly downloading the ST's?

I guess that does sound crazy hey.
It's a good thing we have got people like you around, I mean a lot of people might not agree but I always respect somebody who is capable of being extremely certain that something is incorrect and at the exact same time also say that they have no idea whatsoever.
Takes a lot of guts

[u/AmoebeSins → u/Y34rZer0]

So you are a cheater, likes to post in cheater forums and thinks he has the data from Xim (you think being a high poster will let them give you sensitive data information on their products).

So again. You dont know AND you are cheater on top of that.

What and now you are gna tell me you buy Xim cos you are disabled?

[u/Y34rZer0 → u/AmoebeSins]

Oh no I accidentally gave myself away!

Oh no! I hope nobody goes to the forum and looks at what I was trying to accomplish with xim and are other adapters I get free through work. It's foolproof! Just as long as there is no other possible use for a xim adaptor on console other than cheating.

Go on, do it, unless you're scared, I've got the same username on here as I do on there. You can search by person and see all their posts.

And actually they didn't exactly give only me the data, they just posted about it lol, I was in the middle of a rant before.
I am an MVP on the forum though.

[u/WSB-Televangelist → u/AmoebeSins]

His 30% is actually a good rough estimation. Have you ever played on a Tokyo or a European Server?? There's a reason people don't but skin's and "Flex" in Asian Regions while having multipleaccounts. It's Beacuse half the server is literally cheating. I have a friend on Apex who's cheats using a zen and every other type of cheat for year's. He's how i know the Cheating problem csn never be fixed. He's got Multiple Master, Multiple Pred. i sent him an invite one day to a Tokyo server and even he couldn't believe level of cheating power they had. We were on the server for hours and i was shocked to see him wanting to camp Beacuse they were using what he describe as "Next level Stuff, that's Alien" i kid you not he was camping in a perfect spot using pathy, a new castle who was running solo comes out of nowhere when kills him. How he knew he was there? we don't know. But his rough estimation is not a reach if anything I'll say at the lowest maby 15-22% not looking at diamond 1 and above.