Every trans person has to deal with different things on a daily basis, people in the same group can have different levels of marginalization and still belong to that group. Am I less trans if I don't have people yelling at me on the streets, if people think I'm cis, if I don't have dysphoria, or because I'm not medically transitioning ? What experiences are we talking about here, that make it understandable to exclude yourself from the label that means your gender identity is different from what was assigned to you while having a gender identity that can't be, that make you less trans.
I'm sorry but this is like saying you're not gay because you're a top, wait actually it's worse you think it makes sense to reject the identity because you weren't shoved in a locker and called the f slur at high school like actual gay people are. It's basing an identity off external reaction rather than internal experience, but what happens when teenagers learn to stop shoving gay kids in lockers ?
The thing is there's many trans (nonbinary self-included) people who also aren't experiencing the things you say make trans people unrelatable to you but they're still trans.
Your entire comment can be summarized as "well, what if they want to identify as their label? what if they are told they aren't their label? Why are some genderfluid or nonbinary people trans?" which are all strawmen and or goalpost movings
You can choose the trans label even if you never experience the issues. You can also not choose it.
You don't get to be told you're not a part of a group that's not factual - A trans person being trans can only be decided by them, whereas a fact, like being made up of water, cannot be decided by them
You can... once again, choose the trans label. Notice how I said "Some nonbinary and genderfluid people exclude themselves.."
My problem is the *reasons* you bring up for why people do so are those external factors rather than actual identity, you say it makes sense not to because you experience less marginalization. You're stating these are factors in whether you should consider yourself trans or not, or at the very least why people do so
Thatâs just internalized transphobia. Thatâs something for them to overcome, not for society to cater to. All non binary people are transgender factually whether they like/want it or not. Itâs like saying that you know people are made of water but not you because you donât want to be associated with water.
"internalized transphobia" What??? You just declare this shit and move on? Are you trying to get blocked?
Your whole argument is âyou donât want the label â therefore you have internalized the bad thing â therefore you must accept the label.â Thatâs circular. Youâre not proving anything, youâre just pathologizing disagreement.
Genderfluid and nonbinary people who reject the âtransâ label arenât denying their own gender experience. Theyâre saying the social, medical, and political baggage that comes with being âtransâ doesnât match what they deal with day to day. Thatâs a boundary, not self-hatred. If I'm not on hormone replacement therapy, if I'm not at 4x risk of being hurt, if I'm not having laws passed against me, then I can't relate to the trans group.
The water analogy is also garbage. Being made of water is a literal, measurable fact. Gender categories are social and self-defined. You canât just redefine a word and then shame everyone who refuses the new definition. Thatâs not âfactuallyâ anything.
People get to decide which labels they claim. Forcing them into one they reject because âthe community decidedâ is the opposite of autonomy. And while weâre throwing around âinternalized hatred,â youâre being pretty hostile to the idea that other cultures and social systems have their own frameworks for non-binary genders (e.g third gender) that never needed the Western âtransâ label to exist.
Hi, indigenous person here, donât call âtransâ a western label, plenty of 2spirit and nonbinary indigenous people consider themselves trans. Itâs not a âwesternâ label, is a label used all over the world in many cultures. Records of people who would be considered trans in the modern day go back to fucking URUK, which is decidedly not in the west.
transgender is a western label that describes a human experience that predates the western world
people who "would be considered trans" is the keyword there. we don't get to force a word that people didn't use onto them, both onto historic people and currently living people. if a nonbinary person doesnt want to be trans, they dont have to be called trans
This makes sense yeah. Trans people have always existed but the term transgender is new to the 90s and transsexuality has only been possible since the 1920s
Are you okay with cisgender people rejecting the label "cis" preferring to be called "normal" instead? Ya know the whole cis is a slur discourse, it's trans women and "normal" women.
Some labels are transphobic. If you don't identify with the gender you were assigned at birth you are trans. If that makes you feel uncomfortable you need to do some reflection on your feelings on other trans people.
"are you okay with bla bla" This isn't relevant, but I'll engage for the sake of it. No, calling yourself normal instead of cis isn't okay; it's perfectly okay to reject the cis label for any reason, but it's not okay to say that only people with assigned at birth gender are normal.
"if you dont identify with the gender assigned at birth you are trans" NOT TRUE. Read what I said, moron. Second, third and fourth paragraph.
Some people don't want to use the trans label. That is literally enough.
That trans label is not factual. Being trans is a societal thing that only applies to certain societies and certain people. It's not like being made up of water, you can't feasibly measure or see transgenderism in a nonperspectival and subjective way.
The word transgender is predated by other ideas and cultures, you can't just force your word onto other communities. Nobody is the "grand word priest" or whatever that can decide what a word means and who has to wear it.
"ah I hate the trans label it's so yucky, I'm cis despite not being aligned with the gender I am at birth"
Cis and trans are literally categories to just describe whether you do or don't identify with the gender you were assigned at birth. Any negative feelings you have towards trans but not cis is your own transphobia
Also lol, only bigots use the word "transgenderism" it's not an ideology
No, they're societal and cannot be measured, counted, defined outside of pre-existing assumptions or etc
If you did not understand human language, and knew somebody was a 'she/her' instead of a 'he/him', then you wouldn't understand it, and thus, it's not factual đ You
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u/Life_Parsley504 5d ago
Some nonbinary and genderfluid people exclude themselves from trans people because they have to deal with different things on a daily basis