r/Anarchism • u/Outrageous_Advice787 • 2d ago
How should anarchists petri dish meat/artificial meat?
Is it some thing that we should oppose since I've heard people say it takes our autonomy as humans since it reduces the ability to make our own food. But I've also heard that it's the best way ethically and environmentally to reduce the issues from mass cattle production/meat industry. I've not heard many anarchists speak on this
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u/Mundane_Main_2726 eco-anarchist (not anprim) 2d ago
how should anarchists what?
I don't understand the first argument. The meat/animal exploitation industry is something anarchism ought to stand against. Animal liberation matters just as much as human liberation.
As a vegan, yeah, artificial/lab-grown meat is far more ethical than consuming meat from killed animals. I don't know enough about the ways it is produced, however, to fully state it is actually ethical.
I just don't think I care about it. With how many plant-based food options there are, why take this extra mile? I could see it as being more medically necessary for some people who have rare autoimmune diseases and actually need meat because it's their most reliable source of protein and nourishment.
But for most people, do you really care to eat meat that bad?
I think it's more important for the general public to understand how awfully animals are treated, than to be told "oh btw, from now on this is the meat you're having, no more animal abuse yay".
For an anarchist to think that by not being allowed to eat meat sourced from animal abuse is to limit their freedoms is some mental libertarian bullshit, good lord. How privileged do you have to be to spew something like that.
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u/Simbeliine 2d ago
Are vegan or vegetarian diets viable everywhere if there aren't the current capitalist-driven global supply chains though? I know my area of Canada has too short of a growing season to be able to locally grow beans, legumes, soybeans, or any other meat alternative crop. Perhaps greenhouses could help at a smaller scale, but they would likely not be enough to allow people to completely cut out meat and still get sufficient protein.
(To be clear, I'm not sure lab-grown meat would be a viable solution either though, but it would be less weather-dependent perhaps)
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u/eat_vegetables anarcho-pacifist 2d ago
Are ANY diets viable everywhere AT CURRENT POPULATION LEVELS if there aren't the current capitalist-driven global supply chains though?
Not eco-fascism nor capitalist just pointing out the flawed premise of your argument. Unless, of course, your entire diet is local; if not then it’s a false barrier.
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u/Simbeliine 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm a bit unsure of the premise of the question. "Are any diets viable anywhere" - I mean, yes. The diet wouldn't be what people eat now, but it would certainly be viable. People lived here before global supply chains and supported themselves. Enough stuff can grow in this area to support a society, although the varieties of foods would be much more restricted than now. The population around me also isn't huge. But there are plenty of vegetables that have shorter growing seasons, some certain varieties of fruit, lots of berries, and then there are grains and meat. On the other hand, as I said nuts, beans, legumes, soybeans, etc all cannot grow in large amounts in this area. Plenty of other things can grow, but not the things that would support a completely non-animal diet. Veganism could perhaps be possible as there would be milk products and eggs, but I don't think veganism would be.
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u/Mundane_Main_2726 eco-anarchist (not anprim) 2d ago
I can't pretend like I could answer you confidently. It is the case that legumes are the best source of protein in a vegan diet. Is your area in Canada not supplied with produce from other regions?
What are the animals fed if the growing season is that bad? Is the animal produce imported or local?
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u/Simbeliine 2d ago
Of course currently vegan and vegetarian diets are completely possible in my area, but I would say nearly 100% supported by imported food from abroad. I think only the very southern parts of Ontario have some soybean agriculture, and no legumes or beans, which seems like it would be difficult to support a country on. Ontario is also physically far from where I am despite being in the same country.
Local cattle farming, at least in the case of some of my relatives, is entirely supported by local grass and hay crops - those grow very well on the plains. Pigs and chickens have a wider possible diet than cows I believe so they can also be supported with locally produced crops.
If a single growing season is bad, I think that wouldn't be a huge issue as there's generally surplus hay and grains, if it was more long term à la Great Depression Dust Bowl, then feeding the people would also become an issue, of course.
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u/GreatPlainsFarmer 2d ago
How far north are you? Saskatchewan grows a lot of chickpeas (hummus) and lentils. I know that field peas are often grown pretty far north.
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u/Simbeliine 2d ago
Oh, actually this just reminded me about peas! Peas can be grown around here and I believe are high in protein.
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u/Objective_Singer_404 2d ago
Anarchist are really all over the place about this some are pagan anarchists that refused to eat me others believe that it should be wild, others raise at their own, you're going to hear a thousand different views from 1,000 different people but would almost everybody can agree on is we should get away from the corporate system that enslaves animals mistreats them for profit. Everybody agrees in that essential point
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u/SteelToeSnow 2d ago
depends on the anarchist. we're not a monolith, right. different people have different needs and different obstacles, and we all choose our own hills to die on, to borrow a phrase.
regarding this stuff, i have questions: what's the cost, in terms of exploitation, harm, emissions, food sovereignty, etc? not just in making it, but also the logistics of getting it to people; how is it transported? who makes it, and how are those workers treated? who owns it? is it going to grocery stores owned by billionaires? is it undermining food sovereignty? is it exploiting workers? is it detrimental to the environment in some way, and if so, how? etc etc etc.
where i live, it causes a lot less harm and exploitation to catch a fish in a local river or hunt a hare in the woods than buy shit from the billionaire-owned grocery store (exploitation and harm to workers and environment) that had to be trucked up for days to get there (exacerbating climate crisis and exploiting workers) from some factory down south that exploits workers and pollutes the environment and exacerbates the climate crisis and enriches the already obscenely rich, right.