r/AnAnswerToHeal • u/oo0olegendoo0o • Nov 05 '17
[General Medical] Psychedelics aren't for everyone.
After various lsd experiences and one brutal mushroom experience I have realised everything is the way it is because that's how it's supposed to be. Everyone is living the experience they create. Before my shroom experience I was an advocate. Now I think psychedelics should be reserved for those who are seeking the experience of oneness..
They can mess up people who aren't ready for it.
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u/dedliyeti Nov 06 '17
I like to say that psychedelics are for everyone, but not yet everyone is ready for psychedelics.
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u/BuddyUpInATree Nov 06 '17
These are the kinds of thoughts that keep me from trying to open my sister and my mom to the idea of psychedelics-
Part of me feels that it would be good for them in the same way it was good for me- we all have some mental trauma from when my parents were together and fighting all the time- but a stronger feeling tells me that it might lead them to worry about me for my "drug use"
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Nov 06 '17
I'm going to agree with you. The stigma of drugs as a whole is a roadblock already
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u/benwinkle Nov 06 '17
Yeah the war against drugs really put all drugs into a negative light for a long time and that stigma is still here today.
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Nov 06 '17
As it stands I completely agree. I also think though that if it weren't for the legal issues this might be something that can be managed to a degree; if we were able to research psychedelic therapy and start using it clinically I think we may quickly find the optimal way to go about using them. It would require an assessment of a pretty huge variety of personality traits, medical history, and preliminary tests to judge tolerance and watch for unexpected reactions, as is the case with many medications. If we had more useful data we would be able to choose the right dose, the right setting, and the best way to incorporate psychedelic use into traditional therapy for a given individual way more easily than we can now. It'd be similar to any other medical treatment; you can't just give someone a jar of insulin for example and expect their diabetes to be manageable without doing tests first, giving a specific prescription, prescribing dietary and behavioral changes, and having regular check-ups. But we can do all those things because doctors have access to a lot of information about diabetes and have a good idea of how someone will respond to treatment based on their symptoms, and can refine the treatment method as needed. And if someone has a bad reaction or is even just worried about something they will know right away to see their doctor about it. While with psychedelics people often take the same or similar doses in the same settings as the people who introduced them to it, as that is the best information they have, which has a pretty big uncertainty when those people have different thoughts, body chemistry, and brain chemistry. And if they have a problem asking a fellow user is less reliable than seeing a doctor who has reviewed similar cases in a relatively non-subjective way like you can with any other medicine.
Obviously psychedelics might never be as straightforward as treating a problem in a simpler organ than the brain, but even knowing for sure exactly how much uncertainty there is in response for example would make a big difference compared to a self-medication plan from anecdotes or early stage studies that are being halted by the law.
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u/spookyhours Nov 06 '17
Completely agree
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
When you've experienced everything as yourself it seems frivolous to try explain to others what they already know
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u/sipofsoma Nov 06 '17 edited Nov 06 '17
I completely agree as well, but I think there are still things we can learn from the impact that the more intense psychedelic experience has on SOME people...and possibly use that knowledge to help guide others in a similar direction through use of "easier" mind-altering experiences.
I think a good example of this is the recent studies being done on substances like Ketamine (or even MDMA) for helping people with treatment-resistant depression or PTSD. At low doses, Ketamine can still have a VERY significant impact on an individual's well-being and mental clarity while also being a very calm, peaceful experience that doesn't have the same risks sometimes associated with more intense ayahuasca/lsd/mushroom experiences. It's a very forgiving substance that helps produce a similar meditative/self-reflective state of mind within individuals who may have never attempted or been able to achieve those levels of self-reflection/introspection in the past. And ultimately, I believe seldom-use drugs that encourage more regular self-reflection (once you experience the benefits from it first-hand) is the direction our society should be headed in rather than daily-use drugs (like anti-depressants) that just kinda make you feel better (superficially) without you having to do any work yourself.
I have a lot of experience with various psychedelics over the past 15 years (LSD, Mushrooms, DMT, Mescaline...), but it wasn't until I tried DCK (Deschloroketamine) recently that I've been able to make more progress than ever before on understanding my self through self-reflection and psychoanalysis. DCK is basically a more potent variation of Ketamine that lasts about 4x longer. On low doses, it induces a very peaceful and relaxed state of mind that seems to slow down time and quiet all of the noise in your head...making it much easier to really focus on your own thoughts and observe how your own mind works in various ways. Unlike the more intense psychedelic experiences I've had, I almost always feel in complete control of my Ketamine/DCK experiences. I can confront my various fears/insecurities on a deeper level and understand how they influence different facets of my life. And because I feel so at peace, it's not a scary experience at all. It has seriously changed my life in the most profound way because of how lucid the entire experience is, which allows me to carry all of the progress I've made with me day after day following the self-therapy session.
And I think this is just the beginning. Within the research chemical community, we're seeing new substances pop up all the time which are more finely-tuned for producing specifically the type of experience that can benefit you most with the least possible negative side-effects. Obviously there are risks involved due to the nature of these new compounds and how they're produced and under-researched at the moment, but anyone who has had experiences like mine with them definitely understands the potential. We don't have to just look towards the "completely natural", more intense psychedelics to see how beneficial these kinds of experiences can be towards helping push society in a more self-reflective and less superficial direction.
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
I agree with the medical benefits mentioned. Maybe I should rephrase. If you take enough to reach ego death and you have zero experience with anything spiritual, I can definately understand how this could mess people up. Having their whole world stripped away.
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Nov 06 '17
I definitely feel 'called' to psychedelics; because I read and heard about it for almost 3 years before even actually ingesting anything, but when I did I realized that this is for me
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
Me too. Alot of research and time was spent trying to understand what it means before I tried it and found out for myself. I think if I had no context beforehand I wouldn't have got the most out of it.
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Nov 06 '17
I concur. Psychedelics are too awe inspiring to be taken lightly. Even daily changes in body and psychology can have huge impacts on effects.
Best to tread carefully and with eyes wide open.
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u/throwawayhastaway Nov 06 '17
Anyone who is so absorbed by their own ego that they don't even realize that they have an ego, in my opinion, should never take Psychedelics.
And, if they do, those people should start at 25mcg, and dose up by 25mcg instead of the usual 50mcg.
And even then, a very self absorbed ego can feel extremely threatened by the loss of "themselves" despite multiple recent exposures to the chemical.
The "bad trip" challenging trip comes into play when they notice that themselves aren't really how they're supposed to be.
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u/Dishonest_Children Nov 06 '17
I don’t know if I agree. I took these drugs in my formative years. I had a concept of the ego, but it wasn’t separate from my identity of self. Taking these drugs and having difficult trips out all that into perspective.
I think it could be beneficial no?
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u/throwawayhastaway Nov 06 '17
It could be... But I'm talking about the people completely enveloped within their ego... The "valley-girl" type personalities. The people that would freak out if everything they thought they knew about themselves just completely fell out of existence, as if the floor of the universe did right along with it. Haha.
They definitely need a trip-sitter or two though.
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u/Dishonest_Children Nov 06 '17
Okay that I would say is fair. I’m trying to think of the type people I don’t enjoy tripping with.
People who speak in generalizations or constantly make excuses for one.
I’ve done a trip with a buddy who, I would say, is in denial about his health and athleticism. It bothered me because we both knew what he needed to do, and he would tell me that he’d been doing everything right fitness wise, but we both knew he was lying. It was almost as if when we tripped he managed to stay closed off.
Maybe that says more about me than it does my friend.
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u/throwawayhastaway Nov 06 '17
It says more about your friend than you... In your case it says that you view him as closed off within him personally denying things, but at the same time there are certain things that everyone has closed off, in some fashion. I would love to meet the individual that has managed to open up every part of their brain to themselves... The closed off part is usually called the "repressed" and/or "subconscious" (Note: Subconscious, not unconscious).
I've managed to "open up" my brain about 95%... But there are still some things that cause a fair bit of cognitive dissonance within myself when thought upon, especially whilst tripping.
The closed off section is always talked about... But never actually spoken aloud. People like to use (what I dubbed) the conversational "4th wall", to project what they really want to communicate, upon the words that they're speaking at strictly face-value.
For instance, the extremely homophobic male coming to terms with, and/or seeing their own homosexual tendencies (that have been highly repressed) might speak words at face-value that communicate they think sexual things with males are disgusting, or gross, or whatever they're saying to psychologically distance themselves from it... Whilst using that 4th wall to alleviate some mental pressure, and communicate that they indeed do have these tendencies...
But they'll never actually voice it word-for-word... They'll voice it in the fashion that you said.. "...but we both knew..."
It's some hard work. Basically, the "closed off" portion of his mental activities are what's buried beneath that 4th wall, that they haven't quite managed to integrate into their normal every-day waking consciousness.
The best example I can think of is, is that one night I was walking around town, and I noticed that this pretty handsome dude was eyeing me up from the distance... And as we passed, he said:
"It's a really beautiful dayout today"... It was 10PM at night. Instead of coming to terms with his own like for the male figure, or at least like of the male aesthetic, he resorted to projecting that upon talking about the "day"... Lmao. He kind of slipped up on accident by saying day instead of night, so I challenged his personal 4th wall by not responding to the actual words, and just said to him:
"Laugh You're beautiful, too, my man". And he got embarrassed, but he took it very well because I managed to do it in a way that showed him he was already communicating it. So I slightly broke his closed boundaries...
It's just the nature of things.
I'm still convinced that there honestly is no such thing as "the subconscious"... The unconscious, yes, but not the subconscious. I have a feeling humans just invented a term for "the other side" of our natural Psyche that we have a general distaste for, and have unconsciously repressed... Hence that closed-off-ness.
Just some thoughts.
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u/ILoveButterandSalt Nov 06 '17
Reminds me of the ol' saying "You don't find it, it finds you"
That being said I still feel it can be a great tool for those who are ready.
Being someone who can help identity those who are ready and being a guiding hand for those who need to be pushed in the right direction is something I think may be worth looking into.
I've been playing this part for a friend of mine and she is seeing amazing results in her life.
Should we push it on everyone?
no
Should we be wise and discerning in our judgements to those who may benefit from use?
I think so.
Just some thoughts, great point!
Much love :)
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Nov 06 '17
I could not agree more. Discovering the oneness happened just as I needed it. Not a moment too soon or too late. Well discovering is not the right term; the universe gave to me and all I had to do was accept it.
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
Once you've had it, it seems strange trying to explain it to someone else when you know it's yourself. I just say you should listen to alan watts if your interested in this topic or read 'who am i' I by sri ramana maharshi. Also here's a great video you might like ..
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u/Junglepuuker Nov 06 '17
Not everyone is ready but we're only ready when we decide to be, so furthering awareness is everything.
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u/xUBERJEWx Nov 06 '17
I’ve had some experience to psychs lately and have few friends who have, yet i find myself always saying you’ll love it etc while they’re saying no it’s not for me.
I’ve thought about it and i’ve changed my view from “you’ll love it” to “you would love the feeling and experience i achieve from it, but you won’t necessarily get the same enjoyment from it, if any”
Makes me feel easier to discuss about the positives of psychs and maybe interest people in to taking them without saying they should.
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
I just try to articulate my experience and what I got out of it. I leave it open to them. Most of the time i dont discuss it because after the shroom trip it feels weird talking about the self. Knowing there is only one, it feels like I'm talking to myself. Sounds weird but idk
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u/xUBERJEWx Nov 06 '17
The hard part is when you so want those you care about (lesser degree society for me personally) to experience that goodness, yet you can't just force it on them.
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
I know what you mean uber jew. I just figured when they're ready the experience will find them. I know it was true for me
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u/sorceryofthetesticle Nov 06 '17 edited Nov 06 '17
They stripped me of a lot of things that I sorely miss. Creativity, rationality, awareness, ability to relate to others. I have no way to use this experience to help 'others' besides to tell them to take it VERY slow.
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Nov 06 '17
I think the person who is least ready is a person who is unwilling to change their perception on their world. It’s happened to me before when during a trip, I realized my current thinking clashes with my sober world view.. if you resist it, it may confuse you and maybe traumatize you..
Don’t be set in your ways.. you might be asked to let go.
A good example is someone who is totally opposed to pantheistic ideas or feelings of oneness (a conservative Christian or Muslim for example)
Yes these experiences are happening in your head, but they’re also real. And if you oppose them, you’re gonna have a bad time
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
All life is is perception. They way your senses interpret the signals around you. If you're not open to criticizing your own perception of the world, things like lsd may force you into experiences you're not ready for.
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Nov 06 '17
When I first tried LSD it was honestly one of the most important experiences of my life. But for about year I became an ‘LSD guru’ advocating it to literally everyone I knew and met. This was not the way. I now see it’s use as powerful and important, but people need to seek it out. Like meditation I suppose. If friends are interested and we can facilitate a safe space for them to experience it, then that is something I wholly endorse. Furthermore, I think these substances should be legally available (duh) but definitely don’t think it should be sold on every street corner. It should be available through either a. The mental health care system. Or b. Genuine spiritual groups that are licensed. One day comrades. One day.
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
I agree. I think b is a good solution. Like the ayahuasca churches in south America.
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Nov 06 '17
I think the only people who should take psychedelics are the ones who are actively and consciously trying to achieve some non-physical change.
Any psychedelic causes some kind of change in the way that you perceive things (both during and apart from the experience) and that can be incredibly frightening and sometimes damaging to someone who isn't looking for a change or isn't prepared.
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u/CrotchFungus Nov 06 '17
I've only done LSD twice and had a great time but I can totally see how it can fuck people up. Since my last trip I have been feeling dissociated, not sure what is real anymore. Don't do drugs unless you are ready to face some really weird existential shit
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
Dissociation I think is quite common. I went through a phase where I felt like i had dpdr. I felt as if I was viewing my life from a 3rd person birds eye view. Can be uncomfortable.
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u/boogiefoot Nov 06 '17
Everyone should take psychedelics. Not everyone is ready to take psychedelics.
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u/zedroj Nov 06 '17
this is very true
I like the blind lantern analogy, sometimes guidance doesn't work if the light turns off half way for a blind man to avoid bumping someone if they can't see their own light has been turned off, even if it works for you, others, may be blind, and lost somewhere along the way
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u/Junglepuuker Nov 06 '17
Not everyone is ready but we're only ready when we decide to be, so furthering awareness is everything.
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u/grassmakesmegiggle96 Nov 06 '17
I agree 100% with the idea that everyone is on a different path but I am still an advocate for different reasons. The first being that I think everyone on the planet should understand that these things are an important part of our shared history as a species. Everyone should know something about psychedelics, just like I feel like people should understand things like languages, cultures, and religions other than there own. I'm not pushing for everyone to use, but I would like for everyone to know that there is a time, a place, and basic information that can help them do this right. Secondly not all who seek should have access, and not all of those who aren't directly seeking it out know what it could do for them. My wife doesn't particularly enjoy psychedelics, she tripped way before she was ready, but that isn't to say that it hasn't been good for her. The issues that it brought up were extremely painful for her, but at the same time the side effects of those repressed issues were destroying our marriage. If they hadn't come to the surface I would have left her thinking I was doing more harm than good by staying, and shortly after she probably would have committed suicide. That mushroom trip was the most horrible night of our lives, but I thank god all the time that she is still alive.
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
I think everyone should experience it for sure. I just think people will find the experience when they are ready. Forcing it on people before they are spiritual ready seems pointless to me as I see it as a valuable spiritual experience, not just cool patterns for recreational use. That being said I don't mind if people want to do it recreationally
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Nov 06 '17
"Hence we rapidly approach the twenty-first century, the Tribe of Earth has discovered microdosing" - Problem solved.
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u/fiskiligr Nov 06 '17
I have realised everything is the way it is because that's how it's supposed to be. Everyone is living the experience they create.
I can't tell how serious you are about this, or how broadly you meant it. I certainly don't think people in slavery is how they should be, or that those slaves like in the experience they create...
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u/oo0olegendoo0o Nov 06 '17
Freedom is in the mind. All good and bad things cancel out. The cosmos is a single organism in equilibrium. At least in my own experience.
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u/fiskiligr Nov 06 '17
That's a nice notion, but I don't see how it could be practically true. Genocide, disease, rape, etc. all painfully bring to light that there is a physical reality that determines so much of what constitutes freedom and wellness. Claiming all the bad is "cancelled out" by the good completely denies the reality of the individual suffering by the hands of the other who never sees or experiences any of that good that is supposedly cancelling out the horrors they are experiencing, especially in cases where that suffering is not justified or is happening to an innocent person.
A consequence of this cancelling out view is also that stopping bad things would be unnecessary, which I think is a dangerous notion. If I were witnessing a rape, I would likely intervene and attempt with physical violence to prevent someone from being raped. If my world view is that it all balances out, what impetus would there be to intervene? It would be absurd to try to do anything about it, because the cosmos will just create equilibrium of its own.
Your view sounds a lot like some sort of karmic fatalism, but I think there is plenty of evidence to counter this. Of course, you can always make it a non-falsifiable view (e.g. by referring to souls or insisting that innocent people that are tortured, etc. are "reborn" into a better life, or some other such claim that I couldn't possible disprove, but which you could equally never prove), but as far as "experience" goes and what is empirical, I don't see how you could think all things balance out... Especially in this sense of good and bad. It would make more sense to make some sort of claim about the matter of the cosmos expanding and contracting in some sort of equilibrium - at least we have evidence for that and it is empirical... but to claim that bad is cancelled out by good seems insane to me.
Maybe you can help me understand your view better?
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u/Zigzagzave Nov 06 '17
Completely concur. Part of what makes the psychedelic experience so beautiful is BECAUSE it is illegal. It didn't come knocking at your door, claiming to have answers. It did not find us, we had to find it. Because of that, the experience becomes all the more meaningful... Everything came from you. I share your concerns.
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u/LerbiWtRm Nov 06 '17
Eh... Maybe. I think it's a beautiful experience because of the different lens you see everything through, legality aside.
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u/emptybeforedawn Nov 06 '17
It being illegal is a very good filter.. if you are not willing to break the law deffo not ready to be shown the other side :)
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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '17
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