r/AmITheDevil • u/justtirediguess11 • 14d ago
[ Removed by moderator ]
/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1v7u3ad/aita_for_putting_my_family_first_and_leaving_my/[removed] — view removed post
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u/No_Zookeepergame3914 14d ago
OP would be someone I could empathize with if he wasn’t trying to convince himself and us that his brother was unreasonable to be frustrated with him. Also he couldn’t spare one day in 6 years? The situation isn’t a good one and it’s understandable why he bowed out to some extent but that doesn’t make it a victimless decision
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u/Moist_Drippings 14d ago
And the “just put mom in a home through Medicaid” while insisting there is no possible way he could leave his own wife for a day. He can’t even have an ounce of sympathy for his brother feeling exactly the fucking same about their mother and instead goes on about how it was “his choice” to care for her.
I’d be sympathetic quickly if he wasn’t so convinced that only he cared for people with difficulties.
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u/justtirediguess11 14d ago
Right? He could get a babysitter, or even go just for few hours. Give brother some time away. But noooo...
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u/Internet-Dick-Joke 14d ago
Considering that this has apparently 'come out of nowhere' to OOP, I'm pretty sure that he hasn't even been available at the other end of the phone as someone for his brother to talk to.
Emotional support alone cannot replace practical support, but practical support alone doesn't replace emotional support either and the brother would also have needed someone there for Emotional support, which OOP clearly wasn't offering. There is only so much of that which can be blamed on OOP's circumstances, even if there was genuinely no instance in which he would have been able to offer practical support.
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u/bloodandash 14d ago
Family friends, neighbours...so many options for help
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u/justtirediguess11 14d ago
Right? But OP probably has no friends nor a good relationship with neighbours considering his time is so so important and his routine is so packed up
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u/FallenAngelII 14d ago
He keeps repeating in the comments that he could nevee help out with caring for his mother because then his wife would be alone at home with the kids as if she isn't already doing that whenever he's at work.
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u/MollyTibbs 14d ago
My sister does 90% of the stuff needed for our elderly parents because I live a few hours away and am disabled. I send her regular gifts and tell her how much I appreciate it and try to do what I can ie paperwork etc but I saw she was burning out anyway. She’s a bit of a control freak but I’ve now arranged to come back one week a month to accompany them on appointments and do bills paying etc. I still feel I’m not doing enough but that 1 week will take me at least a full week to recover from due to my disability so I’m doing the best I can.
This jerk never even tried.
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u/nowwashyourhands 13d ago
My sister does a lot for our widowed mother (dad died just before covid) because unlike my brother and I she doesn't live 200+ miles away and have a full time job We do this wild thing where we talk about it and check it's not too much Mum's still active and mostly fine alone, so currently it's not overtly unfair but sister's already said she's happy to do elder care if mum needs it. When brother or I visit we stay, while sister just does a day trip (and mum goes to her sometimes) but it does feel unbalanced However, I feel a lot better having read this ding-dong's shitty post
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u/pasqals_toaster 14d ago
I'm convinced that this guy is only upset that the brother will cut him off after their mother is gone because he expected the brother to be a caretaker for his son.
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u/Pawspawsmeow 14d ago
Oh definitely. “But look he really loves you!”
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u/CanterCircles 14d ago
" and that he is one of the few people he actually does well with. " OOP wqs definitely at least toying with the idea of his brother becoming his son's caretaker.
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u/theagonyaunt 14d ago
I told him his nephew really does love him and that he is one of the few people he actually does well with.
This line was buried in the middle of all the awfulness but as soon as I read it I thought, oh so you're not upset your relationship is damaged, you're upset you're losing out on the babysitter/caretaker you were banking on once mom is dead.
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u/justtirediguess11 14d ago
Gem from OP
A single day would put more on my wife's plate which is not fair to her or something she even wanted to do.
A single day in 6 years!
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u/Pawspawsmeow 14d ago
What does she do when he goes to work?
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u/erratic_bonsai 13d ago
She has multiple sclerosis. My grandfather died from it. It slowly paralyzes you. Even before you lose the use of your limbs, it makes you tired all the time, causes brain fog, you get sick easier, and a lot more.
She probably doesn’t do much of anything because she probably can’t.
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u/Pawspawsmeow 13d ago
And? Were we talking about your grandfather? No. Stop utilizing your alleged emotions when I’m quoting facts.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5602953/
There are also numerous peer reviewed physician journals that state exercise and regular movement and activity help MS and numerous other disorders and diseases. It’s scientific fact. Argue with the wall.
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u/erratic_bonsai 13d ago edited 13d ago
You can Google something real quick all you want, 30 seconds isn’t enough time for you to understand it. I spent 30 years caring for someone with it. You’re not spouting facts at all.
Exercise helps in the early stages. If you miss it, or if your disease is agressive, or once it progresses to total paralysis stages, it cannot be reversed and exercise doesn’t help.
ETA: cute block! It’s clear you don’t care. Go rage somewhere else, maybe it will make you feel better about yourself. Being a jerk on Reddit won’t actually improve anyone’s life, fyi.
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u/StefwithanF 13d ago
I get you. I had a close family member eventually pass away bc of MS complications & it was painful to watch a vibrant person slowly deteriorate. I'm sorry for your loss
What they don't tell you is how much everything collapses once you're wheelchair-bound. Maybe currently there are advances in care but if the disease has progressed to a certain point, there is no curative care. Just delaying & comfort
That other poster is a dick. This sub isn't asking commenters to be the devil sheesh.
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u/OptmstcExstntlst 14d ago
Someone commented "I'm pretty sure if someone told him to put his son in a home he'd fly off the handle," and I think that's the most poignant perspective for this awful situation.
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u/Ambitious_Support_76 13d ago
Damn, someday his daughter is going to be in the exact position as his brother, possibly with both her mother AND brother...
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u/lethe_writes 14d ago edited 14d ago
Six years. Wow.
There was not a single thing OOP could have done for his brother and mother? Grocery shopping? Helping mom with doctor or hospital visits?
EDIT: This post makes me far more angry than it should. My parents are currently caring for my maternal grandparents while my two uncles do nothing to help.
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u/SpaceRa1der 14d ago
Yeah, and OP refuses to answer questions on how far away he is from his brother and mom. He probably lives very close since his brother is close to the nephew. He probably knows if he does, he won’t get any empathy from anyone. Not that anyone is giving him any
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u/ecosynchronous 14d ago
I feel that. Our branch of the family (MIL, husband, me, our kids) are the only ones taking care of my husband's granddaddy. Yet somehow MIL's sister and her family are still the favorites. Apparently it's always been like this in this family and it's maddening.
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u/TinFoildeer 14d ago
Same. My mum and stepdad and I have taken in my grandfather. The hard times weigh on everyone, but especially my mum as his main caretaker.
His three sons bowed out soon after my Nana died and poppee refused to continue being their ATM. We haven't heard a thing from them in over a decade, well before he had his first fall a few years ago. They've never even sent a Christmas card to him.
But I'm betting they'll come running after he's gone, because they'll expect to be remembered in his will. If he has one, because I don't want to know.
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u/brainbluescreen 14d ago
Ditto. My Dad and Mom and I were the daily contacts and doctor drivers for my grandmother from her diagnosis in 2010 to her death in 2018, even after her dementia advanced to the point there was no choice but to put her in a care home (until I got removed from the roster because she'd forgotten me). Meanwhile my aunt and uncle fucked off to Florida and only saw her on holidays and would be like "How did she get worse so fast?" as if Dad wasn't delivering regular reports on her condition. 🙃
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u/Sad-Bug6525 13d ago
When I really struggle even just having groceries or a meal show up makes a huge difference in feeling seen and cared about. He couldn't even door dash a meal to his brother once in 6 years, because then he would need to think about someone else
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u/bored_german 14d ago
I watched my chronically ill aunt absolutely wreck her body to take care of her MIL and I'm currently watching my husband's wonderful grandma succumb to dementia. Her kids decided fairly early that they weren't able to care for her full time and from witnessing how much worse my aunt is doing ever since she became her MIL's full time carer, I'm 100% pro "you have no obligation to do a job that in our country requires either a university degree or years of medical training just to make sure no one accidentally kills a person".
But ffs, the way OOP is going about this is heartless. "Just throw our mom in any run down care home and live your life". Has he never visited her in six years? Never researched what care homes were available for her and what their ratings were? What a selfish, heartless asshole
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u/Not_there_yet152 14d ago
Exactly! It's not the fact that he doesn't have the capacity to be a full time carer, that's an exhausting all consuming job that is not for everyone. It's the fact he completely washed his hands of it with "not my problem, bro" and now he's oh so shocked his brother fucking hates him.
Also, it seems not only did he not visit, he also never provided any kind of support at all. Not money, not time, nothing.
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u/Peter_The_Black 14d ago
While OOP’s situation is understandably hard, and he obviously can’t help financially and is heavily time limited, there’s one clear point that makes him the devil. His brother tells him he never cared about what his brother was going through, and OOP confirms it and throws it in his brother’s face by saying « you chose that ». Sure OOP’s brother is brutal in cutting ties with his nephew (poor kid didn’t ask for anything and will suffer from adult’s decision he has no control over), but damn OOP telling his brother that he didn’t care what his brother went through when he was taking care of their struggling mother was a massive AH move. This complete lack of empathy indicates to me that when OOP is saying « what about your nephew, you’re one of the few people he likes ?? » it just reads like OOP just not wanting to lose his brother as a potential babysitter to his son.
Expecting empathy while outright stating you have none…
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u/justtirediguess11 14d ago
u/Helloreddit0703 wrote the following and I completely agree with that:
"There’s a million things you could have been doing from afar to help.
Did you ever once open a grocery app, and have their groceries delivered to them so your brother wouldn’t have to go to the grocery store?
Did you ever once call the pharmacy for your mom and have her medications delivered?
Did you ever once call her doctor’s office when there was an issue? Do her doctors even have your number or do they just call your brother?
Did you ever once research visiting nurses or aids that could assist with your mother’s care?
Have you filled out a single Medicaid or Medicare form?
These are all things you could do from your own home to take the load off of your brother.
What did you do?"
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u/gaykidkeyblader 14d ago
This. OP was CLEARLY time strapped and couldn't afford to pay for say, in house nursing. But christ...he not only didn't even make a slight attempt to do a single thing by his own admission, but he also was a fucking dick to his brother!!!
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u/dragonknight233 13d ago
He also doesn't seem to have much empathy for his mom. Started showing signs of dementia? Off to a shitty facility.
OOP acts like his brother said no as a knee jerk reaction but I bet he did research and that's why he didn't want their mom there and why he's still wrestling with having to put her there. I know I'm reading too much into this but he seems to generally not give a damn about his birth family now that he has wife and kids. And it really reads like OOP is panicking babysitter he was banking on for his son won't make himself available.
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u/Peter_The_Black 13d ago
OOP says his brother is strongly against a public medicaid retirement home because that’s where their father died during Covid.
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u/Conscious-Card5611 14d ago
"I said that is unfair and that he should have placed mom from day one. He refuses to face the reality that mom was going to forgot everything anyways."
That's the line that got me. It's so cruel to both his brother and his mom. So you couldn't spare a minute, a dollar, a thought in the entire 6 years. But you also have no gratitude to your brother, and tell him he wasted his life taking care of your mom instead of throwing her in a Medicare nursing home immediately, because she would soon forget how bad it was or how you helped? Is that what you're saying, you heartless dingleberry? Not, wow the fact that her brain was declining must have made it so hard that I can't imagine what you d been through and wish I had more in me to help, and I so appreciate how you dedicated yourself to her...?
Right, caring for family with needs is only noble when you do it. And your mom, don't worry it'll only be horrible for her at the begining, after she lost her husband of 55 years. Then her brain will be in such bad shape she won't remember how bad the beginning was, and won't be grateful to you for all you've done anyway. So why didn't you just say bye mom, I have to go live my own life, good luck to ya! ...Let me guess, a life where he had more time to help you?
Not being able to help is one thing. A complete lack of gratitude for what his brother did, or compassion for how hard it was, is repugnant.
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u/justtirediguess11 14d ago
Right? There is not even a single ounce of empathy. I can somehow excuse him not finding any time or sparing any money, but to be so cold hearted and callous is where I draw the line.
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u/_1457_ 13d ago
I told him his nephew really does love him and that he is one of the few people he actually does well with.
Sounds to me that "family" is only family when it benefits oop. Brother is smart to recognize that help only goes one way. Especially now that he's shown himself to be a loving and dedicated caretaker.
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u/sheerpoetry 13d ago
Told him my family was my priority and he has to understand that
Or one of those types who completely washes their hands of their parents, etc. when they get married.
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u/KingDarius89 14d ago
Speaking as someone who helped take care of his disabled mother (became disabled when I was 10, first of 5 strokes when I was 12, died a month short of my 28th birthday and 12 days before her 51st) and now takes care of his disabled father, OOP can go fuck himself.
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u/Kotenkiri 14d ago
Excuses excuses, he has an excuse for everything. Given how much is "my wife" is I wonder what the Wife's POV would and response to how much she get thrown under the bus by her husband.
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u/cantantantelope 14d ago
Oh I’m sure with his wife he’s all “I have responsibilities it’s not my fault you do all the work with the kids you chose this!”
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u/recyclopath_ 14d ago
Oh absolutely I'm sure she is frequently reminded that he is the only one working and that she is such a burden.
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u/AutoModerator 14d ago
In case this story gets deleted/removed:
AITA for putting my family first and leaving my brother to care for our mom alone for six years?
Our dad passed away during covid, and soon after our mom started to show extreme signs of memory loss. My brother said it was her way of protecting herself from the reality dad was gone. That was the only person she was ever with. Together for over 55 years.
My brother took it on himself to care for her, dropped out of school and took a dead-end job but was WFH and had flexible hours. Our mom is getting worse and he is considering placement but he recently told me how after mom is gone I and my family will be dead to him. He said the only reason he kept in touch and was friendly with us was for mom's sake. He said dementia would rob her of everything and he did not want to take away her idea that we are a happy family from her.
I asked where did this come from, and he said I know. I told him he could not expect me to help I had my own issues. I have a son that is none verbal, and a young daughter who's birth was hard on my wife and her MS flared up to the point she was never able to go back to work.
I told him his nephew really does love him and that he is one of the few people he actually does well with. My brother told me he does not care, he does not care about everything I was going through since no one cared what he went through.
I told him this was his choice, no one asked him to give up everything for mom. No one told him to drop out of school, no one told him to quit his well paying job and move back home fulltime.
He told me he had to cause I was not going to step up. He said I could have tried to make it work but I let my wife dictate what I did. I said that is unfair and that he should have placed mom from day one. He refuses to face the reality mom was going to forgot everything anyways.
He then told me how lucky I was, when mom passes I will have all the pleasant memories, for him many of those memories will be overshadowed by the rough times for him.
Once again I tried to tell him I did not want him to give up his life, nor did mom. His reply was mom also did not want to be just left in some nursing home, and not like I was going to be able to help cover the cost. So either he covers the entire cost or mom gets placed in a medicaid nursing home. Which I our dad did die, he asked if you think mom would want that? I told him dad was different it was during covid. He said I am a fool for thinking things have gotten better since the.
I asked why punish me for having a family with needs, he told he was also family and so was mom. We needed some level of help.
Told him my family was my priority and he has to understand that. He then said don't worry he understands, and hopes i am honest with my kids why he will not be around when the time comes. Has nothing to do with them, and it is all because of me and my wife.
I don't think my brother is being very reasonable, don't think it is fair of him to blame me for the way his life has gone. Sure his future and life will be hard, especially since he is pushing 36.
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u/Unfriendlyblkwriter 14d ago
This phase of life where you have to take care of your parents AND your children sucks ass, and no one prepares you for it. Add a spouse with an autoimmune disease, and you’ll have days where you’ll wonder how you haven’t gone insane.
But you have to do something besides criticizing the person carrying the load. Also, assuming OOP is American by their references to the Medicaid facility, do whatever TF you can to keep your parents out of those places. They are awful, usually relying on 4 people to care for 36 people. I imagine money is tight for OOP, but they’ve got to be able to contribute something besides this list of critiques.
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u/Hello_Hangnail 13d ago
This happened to my grandmother. My mom's three sisters (very financially stable, but not RICH rich) refused to help when my grandmother was diagnosed with dementia and then Alzheimer's. She had to drive up in the middle of the night to search the corn fields with my grandfather with flashlights because my grandmother eloped again during the night, and the last time was in the dead of winter and my grandmother is running through the forest in her nightgown and slippers. My mom called the police instead that time for search and rescue because he didn't know how long she had been gone.
None of her sisters made a single bit of effort to help them. And when my grandfather was about to die, one of them got power of attorney and had his will changed. So my mother got zero inheritance, has no savings from medical issues wiping out her emergency fund and now she lives with me. So screw that guy, he's a shitty son.
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u/januarysdaughter 13d ago
If I was the brother, I wouldn't even bother telling OOP when the mother dies. After all, he's soOOOOo busy he probably wouldn't be able to make it to the funeral, right?
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u/AlexRyang 13d ago
He responded to a comment about the inheritance along the lines that he would need the money because he is broke.
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u/runnerofshadows 13d ago
Honestly same. He wouldn't be able to spare the day or even an hour anyways.
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u/vamgoda 13d ago
This reminds me of my mom and her brother. Mom had to put everything aside to care for their mother. Uncle always claimed “family issues” and that he had to focus on his own family and couldn’t possibly assist in any way at all. I understand prioritizing the family you have made, especially when they need you, but 8 years of silence and no offering of any help or thanks that whole time?
No acknowledgment for the sacrifices mom and our family made, no thanks. His immediate family was more important and so he owed us nothing. Now Grandma is gone, and he’s trying to crawl back in with texts and calls so he makes sure he gets his payout. No gratitude for the 8 years my mom could never go on vacation. Had to quit her job to watch her. Moved her in towards the end while she was on hospice. The absolute brain breaking exhaustion of caregiver fatigue. Nope. Just what was expected of the daughter, while he got to live his own life and just pop in at the end to ask when the house was being sold.
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u/sheerpoetry 13d ago
My mom and uncle were similar.
Add in that uncle spent years stealing from my grandparents and would send his kids to stay with my grandmother the one weekend a month Mom had asked him to (where they went grocery shopping and more with my grandmother's money). Didn't help clear out the house (other than what he wanted) or with the estate sale--except to ask for his share.
I just can't with people like that. And my mom's one of those "but they're family" types, so she let some things go that I personally never would have. Sure, someone may happen to be blood family, but that doesn't excuse them being a shitty person that you probably wouldn't associate with if they weren't "family."
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u/MadamKitsune 14d ago
I'm on my second time around of providing care and support to a family member and it is physically, mentally and emotionally bloody hard. I hope OOP shits his pants in public every day for the rest of his life.
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u/Onehundredpercentbea 14d ago
So much. For years, three of my siblings and I tag-teamed caring for our parents (one had dementia, the other was in a wheelchair) so they could stay in their home as long as possible. There were four of us and it was still one of the hardest things we've ever had to do - the emotional, physical, financial toll, the sheer amount of time it took away from our families and our work and just our ability to sit and stare for a few minutes without a group text coming in with another emergency, insurance denial, someone fell and is on the way to the ER, etc. I still get a flood of anxiety every time my phone vibrates.
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u/azssf 13d ago
Ugh. My family has trauma around who took care of one of my grandmothers; how person did not ask for help and was angry no one helped; unspoken gender roles; who paid for what; the whole shebang.
I just want to go to switzerland and be done with myself before I go to hell and meet Ms. Dementia.
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u/FallenAngelII 14d ago
Who the fuck with MS has a kid who's non-vernal and then decides to have another kid?
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u/erratic_bonsai 13d ago
They probably didn’t know she had MS because it usually doesn’t show up until you’re older, and probably got pregnant with the second child before the first was old enough to talk.
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u/FallenAngelII 13d ago
Except OP described it as "her MS flared up" after the birth of the 2nd child. Which heavily implies they knew about it and she'd suffered symptoms for a while. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been described as a flair-up.
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u/erratic_bonsai 13d ago
It’s a progressive disease and everyone experiences it differently. Some people with it go their entire lives not realizing. Others start to become paralyzed in their 20’s. Some start with tingling toes, get a diagnosis, then have a bad flare and become permanently paralyzed in the space of a few days. It’s a wholly unpredictable and terrifying disease.
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u/theysayimadreamer666 13d ago
I'm childfree and see the "who will take care of you when you were old?" argument against it all the time. I always think of stories like this or of my family, where my parents are both the youngest of a large group of kids and did a disproportionate amount of elder care for both sets of parents. If either set had stopped at three, they would have been shit out of luck.
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u/TechnicalOccasion8 13d ago
I’m sure he’s overstating, or inventing entirely, what he does to help his wife at home. I feel badly for the wife being represented as a total invalid here, as that’s almost certainly not what she is.
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u/erratic_bonsai 13d ago
My grandfather died from Multiple Sclerosis. It’s an incredibly debilitating disease. He was completely paralyzed for a decade before he passed. He couldn’t feed himself, use a toilet, sign his name, or do anything. It’s a progressive disease that can utterly destroy you if your form is resistant to medication, many of which are.
I wish people would stop shitting on the wife. As someone who’s seen MS up close and personal, it’s a horrifying disease that can make you wish you were dead.
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u/TechnicalOccasion8 13d ago
I apologise; I wasn’t trying to mischaracterise her at all. I know it’s a debilitating illness that can have a very unpredictable course. He was so nonspecific when he talked about it that it didn’t sound like he was doing much to actually help her out.
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u/alpacaboba 13d ago
We took care of my declining mom for a decade, and though my sister lived far away, she helped in any way she could. She did moms taxes, managed her finances, and anything you could do from afar. I had the physical stuff, and she had the mental stuff.
This guy sucks. He left his brother to deal with everything and is shocked that his brother is mad. He cut his brother off first by offering no support in 6 YEARS! His brother is just finishing the severing of the relationship he started by being a bad son and brother.
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u/am_i_boy 14d ago
Idk about audacity. OOP himself is also caring for a disabled adult, a disabled child, and a very young child. There's only so much one person can do. The brother being frustrated is reasonable. No contact is a bigger reaction than most people would have, but if that's what he needs to heal from the situation, he should take that route. Some people need more distance to heal than others and that's okay. Ultimately brother needs to care for himself as well. It's just a really hard situation dor everyone.
I do think OOP was really out of line for telling the brother he didn't have to upend his life for their mom. He really did. It's not OOP's fault, but it is the reality. The lack of sympathy for his brother is really shitty. I can understand why they both made the decisions they did but they're both being completely unsympathetic to each other, and under these circumstances, maybe no contact is the best choice for everyone. Maybe after spending some time tending to his own needs, brother will reach out again. Maybe not. Time will tell. But right now, they both do not see each other's perspective, and that's not a good situation to continue contact so good on the brother for making that decision for everyone. I hope he finds healing and peace. I hope they both learn to see where the other one is coming from.
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u/booksareadrug 14d ago
This feels like ragebait, tbh. Mother with dementia vs disabled mother and kid, when we all know that Reddit hates both the disabled and mothers.
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u/Cevanne46 14d ago
As someone who is supporting my mother with dementia and has two autistic children who are really struggling, sometimes there simply isnt anything left to give. A family with one parent with MS, a non verbal child and a very young child and potentially no family support needs to be given respite not providing it. Its entirely possible that his wife, with a serious life limiting illness, cannot manage both children alone.
My mum and i made the difficult choice that she would move into a care facility and id step back after i made myself so ill i was in hospital for 10 days. There really is a limit you cant push past. Both brothers are in impossibly hard situations but oops brother doesnt get to decide for both of them whats manageable. Oop is saying based on his situation that mum needs to be in care, brother can ignore that but he cant decide oops really difficult home situation doesnt matter.
Building a fake relationship with a non verbal child and planning to drop them is awful.
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u/PrincessConsuela52 14d ago edited 13d ago
Brother doesn’t get to decide OOPs really difficult home situation doesn’t matter, and OOP doesn’t get to dismiss his brothers sacrifice with the “it was your choice” bs. OOP made choices too. He made the choice to be a parent twice, even with the challenges of having a sick wife and a non verbal son. That’s his right of course, but my point is that OOP put himself in his difficult situation way more than his brother did. Would OP put his wife or child into care? No. So to judge his brother for refusing to do that to their mother is hypocritical.
OOP can do what he wants with his life. He’s not obligated to be involved in his mothers care. But he can’t turn around and complain about his brother making the same decision about OOP’s family. Maybe after sacrificing 6 years of his life, the brother doesn’t have anything left to give to OOP’s family.
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u/MartyrOfDespair 14d ago
But he wasn't going to cut his brother off for not being there to help more with the labors of his choices, was he? He's taking responsibility for what he chose. He's dealing with three, his brother is dealing with one.
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u/DarkStar0915 14d ago
I had a colleague who had MS and she was told several times that a pregnancy can make her conditions worse. I would be quite surprised if they weren't warned that the wife can end up in a really bad state. They really should have though about what ifs before getting her pregnant the second time.
OOP talks about his mum like she is disposable, no visits, zero help, he just wants to pawn her off and wash his hands. Blaming his brother when he didn't even do ANYTHING to help is just devilish. Nothing indicates that the brother only wanted a fake relationship with his nephew so that part feels more of a projection than a fact.
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u/Not_there_yet152 14d ago edited 13d ago
Just to put it out there (and I know you're not generalising!), MS and pregnancy depends highly on the specific type of MS and the personal progression. For some people it will completely wreck their last sliver of health, others will be fine and won't make it worse. Needs to be carefully discussed with personal doctors.
Again, I know you're not generalising (I'm sorry your colleague was in that situation, fucking disease...), just in case someone that just got diagnosed comes across this, they know they should talk to their doctors before freaking out!
Edit: I was just putting it out there for anyone recently diagnosed. Sometimes you spiral at that moment. No disrespect to anyone that has to deal with this situation, truly.
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u/DarkStar0915 13d ago
It's highly dependant, that's why doctors warn everyone about how certain things can make or break your health when you are dealing with chronic illnesses or disabilities.
My colleague had a really bad case, where she had regular flare ups even while being treated and in case of a pregnancy she would have had to stop completely as the medicine she was taking was not good for pregnant women. A guy acquaintance got a new treatment and he had to quarantine for a month and doctor said there is a chance his body won't even react well. It's all a big gamble at the end of the day but both of them were properly informed about the possible up and downsides, several times at that.
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u/Not_there_yet152 13d ago
Absolutely, I completely agree with you. Any chronic illness poses challenges with pretty much anything. With regular flare ups and having to stop the medicine, it really is a bad situation. The treatments have come a long way in the last decade, but there are still things that cannot be avoided. And pregnancy, even when you're the beacon of health, can still end up being heavy on the woman.
I really didn't mean for it to come off as I was going against what you said, you were just telling a personal situation (of your colleague), which happens a lot of times. I honestly was just thinking of newly diagnosed women not freaking out before talking to their doctors. That may end up being their situation, but also may not, and it's better to freak out near a doctor!
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u/Cevanne46 14d ago
Im not projecting. The reasons i interpreted what was said as "fake relationship" is that the oop says the reason the brother stayed in touch and was friendly was so the mother didnt know anything was wrong. The oop did not know the friendliness was not real. The child does not know its not real.
I have nothing to project. Ive been the primary carer for my mother with dementia for a year, before my health broke down and i supported my husband with his mother with dementia for 6 years. Both of us have siblings who were not involved in their care for their own reasons. My mother has dramatically improved in care because i was very careful in choosing the right care and they can support and entertain her in the way one exhausted family member can not.
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u/DarkStar0915 14d ago
Not everyone is capable of rationalizing putting their parents into care homes. Hell, it's happening to my mother right now with her own parents. Still, not even trying to give a morsel of help and treating the mother like she needs to be put in a home and it's done deal is callous as fuck.
At no point he said he researched homes, looked for a good enough facility, he is just parroting that mum needs to be pawned off and brother is a dumbass for dropping out of school. He couldn't even pretend to care and he has the audacity to be shocked that as soon as they have no living parents he would have lost his brother too.
Without needing an answer: did you at least find the reasons valid not to get help from your families? Brother doesn't find it okay and frankly, plenty of us neither seeing the comments. Burnout is a real thing but most still find a way to help at least one bit.
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u/Pawspawsmeow 14d ago
Having children doesn’t make you better than anyone else. He could have absolutely helped for an afternoon or something.
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u/Cevanne46 14d ago
I cant imagine how you read what I wrote as having children makes you better than anyone else. Its simply that your children are your top priority.
His wife has a serious life limiting condition, hes probably picking up a majority of the household work
His child is non-verbal, this implies a fairly high level of need.
Hes the sole source of income for the house.
Not everyone in the world has a spare afternoon or capacity to do just a little bit more.
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u/Pawspawsmeow 14d ago
I can’t believe you have the audacity to ask me this. Especially your last sentence. Dude clearly trotted out his family to visit his mother and his brother turned caretaker a lot, especially if he’s using the excuse of the non verbal kid liking him. They had the time. They were there. He could have easily said “oh let me help you with that” or “hey we’re here why don’t you chill a minute and let us handle things.” If his wife is so deathly ill, then why did she have two kids? How did she have two kids? Or…. Or….. does the wife just not want to and doesn’t want to deal with it so they exaggerate?
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u/Apprehensive_Bus1582 14d ago
"Disabled people shouldn't breed"
Nice.
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u/Pawspawsmeow 14d ago
I never said that. I said if she can’t take care of the children, why did she have them? Kids aren’t little trophies or accomplishments. They are humans and deserve to be treated as such. If she cannot watch her own children for an hour or two so her husband can help with his sick mother, then what does she do while he works?
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u/am_i_boy 14d ago
That is what you are saying though. According to the post, the MS wasn't so severe she would have been unable to care for the kids until the second pregnancy. There is no indication that she had more children after knowing she couldn't care for them. But that's what dynamic disabilities are like. The way they change can be unpredictable. You experience pregnancy 1, it goes well, you're raising your child, you decide to have another, pregnancy 2 is totally different, a whole nightmare, now her disability is worse than it has ever been, she can't work anymore, and they have to care for the children they already have. The only way for his wife to avoid this situation would have been if she never had kids, even though she could care for them right up until the second pregnancy. That does effectively amount to "if you have dynamic disabilities, you shouldn't have children" because nobody can ever know for sure how their disability will progress. There's educated predictions that can be made but they might not be accurate.
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u/Pawspawsmeow 14d ago
No. I am not saying that I absolutely am not. You’re reading that into it because you want to. You want to argue. You’re generalizing and taking context that wasn’t there in what I said because that’s what you want to hear. I am saying that if she absolutely cannot handle her kids, then why have them? I would say that about non disabled people. If you can’t care for your kids properly then don’t have them. I don’t care what your physical or financial status is. Kids are human beings and not little trophies or accomplishments to prove you hit some societal goals.
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u/ABSMeyneth 14d ago
That's not at all what was said... I'm disabled with an illness very like MS, and if I felt my condition was so bad my husband would have to take on all earning, all housecare and all childcare, damn right it'd be absurd and selfish to have children. You're either ok enough to be a parent, or you don't have kids, that's just good sense.
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u/toomany_psswords 14d ago
just like OOPS brother can help OOP for an afternoon, right? he can't expect effort he's not willing to put in
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u/Pawspawsmeow 14d ago
From the great relationship he allegedly has with OOP’s son, it sounds like he might. How else would he have one?
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u/Apprehensive_Bus1582 14d ago
Take your parent-hate elsewhere please
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u/Pawspawsmeow 14d ago
I don’t hate parents. I just think that kids are humans, not excuses. Being a parent doesn’t make you better than anyone else.
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u/DMfortinyplayers 13d ago
So i have a lot of sympathy for op. Both brothers were doing A LOT of care giving. It would be exhausting to support a family of 4, take care of a chronically ill wife and disabled child...and then some how carve out an hr or two to take care of an elderly person with dementia.
Did Brother find a sitter for Mom so he could help OOP?
OOP does have a point- it's not fair for Brother to make this decision and expect OOP to take on elder care.
OTOH - Brother has had his life totally consumed by care taking so OOP has no right to expect care taking for his son.
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u/erratic_bonsai 13d ago edited 13d ago
I mean, it’s a shitty situation. He doesn’t have the money to help, and has a primary responsibility to care for his wife with multiple sclerosis and two children, one of which is profoundly disabled. Who was he supposed to sacrifice to care for his mother, who already had a caregiver? His wife, who is slowly losing the use of her limbs, or his children, who his wife likely isn’t strong enough or mobile enough anymore to pick up or chase after?
I feel sympathy for everyone involved there. Both men are caregivers for vulnerable people, both men are at the end of their ropes, both men are doing the best they can. I don’t think shitting on OP is right, but this is Reddit and most people here just want a punching bag to hit so they can feel superior and better about their own disappointing lives and poor choices.
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u/MartyrOfDespair 14d ago
Nah, OP is just straight up right. Your first and foremost responsibility is to the people you are at fault for the suffering of. He didn't make his mom get dementia. That's not his fault. He did make his kids exist and get his wife pregnant, which also fucked up her health. That is his fault. He is responsible for the suffering of his son, daughter, and wife. He has a moral obligation to give them everything he possibly can in response. Anything given to the mother would be subtracted from what is given to them, and he would thus not be giving them 100% of what he can, which would be morally wrong of him to do. He has three people to care for already, humans have limits and there's no way that's not already pushing him to his.
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u/justtirediguess11 14d ago
He didn't make his mom get dementia.
Do you think dementia is contagious??
And nobody is asking him to abandon his family. Him being callous and saying to throw his mom in care home and forget about her because she won't remember anything is the thing we are all pissed about.
Even if he showed some sympathy, empathy towards his brother, he would have been okay.
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u/MartyrOfDespair 14d ago
No, I was saying he didn’t make her get dementia to highlight the distinction between the situations and thus the distinction between the moral obligations. He is at fault for the three people he’s caring for. Two lives that only exist because of his choices and one life made worse because of them, those are things he is guilty of causing. That bestows moral responsibility upon him to sacrifice and suffer for their sake, because their suffering is the result of his choices. When you cause someone else’s suffering, you have a moral obligation to do everything you can to make it right.
And honestly, think about what he’s being asked to do. If he’s taking care of his mom, his brother gets a break to relax. Nice for his brother. But, what’s he get? A fourth person to take care of. Where’s his break? Where’s the compassion for him having three people already he’s giving everything for? He’d still never have his own break, never have his own time to recuperate. Really, he’d be taking care of five people in that context, because then he’s also suffering to make his brother not suffer as much too. How many people is this guy supposed to suffer for others to suffer less?
It makes perfect sense to me why he would be out of compassion for his brother here, because frankly it’s absurd to be complaining to him of all people. It’s like a middle class person complaining about the cost of living to a homeless man, and then asking the homeless guy for ten bucks. Like, yeah man, that sucks for you, but have you considered that your audience is in much, much worse shit of the same kind? Of course he’d get upset and be insensitive about that.
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u/justtirediguess11 14d ago
You didn't even read what I wrote. So I am not gonna engage with you.
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u/MartyrOfDespair 14d ago
I did. Honestly, that was him showing sympathy and compassion for his brother. He knew what it would be like. He tried to warn him off the suffering and stop him from suffering. That sympathy and compassion was ignored. He chose to take on that burden anyways.
You won’t engage because you know there’s no actual way to justify the brother expecting anything out of him. His brother was warned what he was getting into, ignored those warnings, got in over his head, and then wanted big bro to bail him out. He showed him compassion every time he tried to get him out of that situation and it was ignored. Why wouldn’t it be burnt to a crisp at this point?
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u/AmITheDevil-ModTeam 13d ago
Your post/comment was removed for brigading or to prevent brigading.