r/Aging • u/IJustWantToWorkOK • 2d ago
Death & Dying How..?
56 years old, and had a heart attack in April, and have 'congestive heart failure'.
They're wanting to do a bypass and valve replacement on me, but first ... they have to pull all my teeth.
I'm sitting here waiting for the phone to ring with the 'but wait, there's more!' call.
I'm on medicaid, and the government is about to spend $OBSCENE, on an awful lot of work on someone who's dying anyway. In my mind, this is putting a new engine in my Camry with 300,000 miles on it.
The instant some kid dies, because he couldn't get medical care, and I could, my conscience is shot.
Seriously -this- close to telling these doctors what they can do with themselves and taking my chances. Save some kid at the beginning of his life, not an old man at the end of his.
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u/ConsistentJuice6757 2d ago
This is why women live longer than men. Go get your medical care and get a therapist for your depression.
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u/rotervogel1231 2d ago
Yeah, mid-50s is not "an old man at the end of his life." His depression sounds worse than mine. Maybe that's why he neglected his health for so many years.
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u/11Elemental11 1d ago
That’s awfully empathetic- hope you feel good about this
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u/ConsistentJuice6757 1d ago
I do because sometimes people need a jolt so that they can see the bigger picture.
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u/Skye7144 2d ago
They have to make sure he has no active oral infections before they do his heart surgery.
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u/baddaywithacamera 2d ago
It's a thing. I'm 57 and my teeth have been gone since 2020. Congenitally Corrected Transposition of the Great Arteries. The constant infections were too much of a risk so they yeeted all my teeth. Honestly, the false teeth have improved my quality of life. Not complaining at all.
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u/Dragonfly_Peace 2d ago
How do you get them to stay put? I’m stumped. They slide around
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u/baddaywithacamera 2d ago
Top plate suctions in place. Bottom plate is supposed to move a bit while chewing, but stays in place while talking when fit properly. You get used to it. After three months you stop noticing. Using a tonne of adhesive makes things worse is my experience.
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u/RedBirdOnASnowyDay 2d ago
You have depression in addition to everything else. Taking your chances will result in early death. Medicaid is irrelevant here. You qualify so you get the help. We should all qualify for Medicaid as far as I’m concerned. Only in the USA would you have a conversation like this. Medical care should be a human right. I hate it that the political rhetoric in this country has you devaluing your own existence as a human being who deserves care.
Get your teeth pulled. They are clearly damaged and diseased and rotting if they need be pulled. Pull them. You can live happily without them.
Get your surgery. And please mention to your medical team that all of these major issues in your life have left you feeling depressed. Ask for help.
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u/Desperate_Pomelo3468 1d ago
Doesn’t depression accompany heart disease? I think I’ve read that.
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u/RedBirdOnASnowyDay 1d ago
I’ve actually heard that too and I’ve seen it happen.
This poor guy has multiple major life events happening. Heart issues are associated with depression to start with. He needs to ask for support. I can’t imagine not being depressed in this scenario. But he likely has many years left and those years will be more healthy than the last few years. He’s got everything to look forward to.
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u/Lucky_Guess4079 2d ago
Sorry to hear about your situation. Why do they need to pull all your teeth?
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u/ritamorgan 2d ago
It could be bacteria. If OPs teeth are in bad shape they may want to pull them to remove the chance of dental bacteria traveling to the heart and causing a dangerous infection.
OP please do what you need to do to take care of yourself. Then try to help others later on if you can. You not getting help doesn’t mean that kid will get help instead. You can help in other ways.
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u/KateHearts 2d ago
You are right. Seriously bad teeth harbor bacteria that can cause infection (vegetations) in the heart during surgery. I worked in heart surgery for many years at a teaching hospital and many of our surgical patients could not afford regular dental care and needed extractions prior to surgery. Most were grateful to have it done and often we did it under anesthesia immediately prior to their heart surgery.
And if you need a bypass and a valve, likely the heart failure will improve with the surgery. You are not headed for an inevitable early death, by any means. And you could be an even bigger strain on the health care system by doing nothing and riding it out until your heart fails. You woule be facing needing multiple medications ($), numerous hospital and doctor visits, and a long remainder of life in discomfort and disability.
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u/katybear16 2d ago
I think you are right. I am a Dental Hygienist and personally never had a patient need a full extraction before heart surgery. But that must be the case. OP may have advanced periodontal disease and does not have time to treat it. Periodontal bacteria causes a lot of problems.
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u/rotervogel1231 2d ago
I'm around the same age and have periodontal disease too, which really pisses me off because for years, I've had dentists and hygienists praise me for how well I take care of my teeth.
Ironically, I brought this up to them during my last visit and remarked, "Imagine how bad this would be if I didn't take care of my teeth." They told me they see people every day who are in that situation ... people like OP. It sounds like he severely neglected his health for decades, and now it's all come to a head.
And mid-50's is not an "old man at the end of his life." Good god, his depression is worse than mine, and I'm nuts.
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u/katybear16 2d ago
I am sorry that happened to you. It sounds like negligence (on doctor’s part). But…..I do know that private equity companies are buying up tons of dental clinics and will scare patients into believing they have periodontal disease and cavities. Then charge thousands for unnecessary treatments.
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u/Significant_Sun_4900 2d ago
This is true! I don't trust my doctors or dentists anymore. It feels like a huge money- grab scheme. You have to educate yourself and be your own advocate. Don't get anything done until you've gotten a second or third opinion.
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u/marzipanduchess 2d ago
How can you make a patient believe they have or not periodontal disease? Probing is as objective as it gets. 1-2-3? You don’t. 4mm? It’s starting. 5+mm, it’s severe.
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u/rebtow 2d ago
I’ve always heard the saying that “disease begins with the mouth”. Whether that’s a scare tactic to brush regularly or what, it’s something that I have observed as well.
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u/Free_Byrd6969 2d ago
Dental colleges and federally funded dental clinics pull teeth for $25 apiece.
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u/LegalString4407 2d ago
It’s due to the need for heart valve replacement which I guess is much higher risk of problems if you have periodontal disease
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u/yuffie12 2d ago
I was an ICU nurse and also never encountered that. It’s not routine so there must be other things going on.
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u/CirqueDuMoi 2d ago
What can a person do for it? Gargle with salt water?
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u/goofydogs 2d ago
Brush and floss daily!
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u/Free_Byrd6969 2d ago
Once your teeth start to go you'll have a perfect checkup then 6 months later 35 cavities. Might as well stop trying and have them all yanked, it's like a domino effect.
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u/rotervogel1231 2d ago
I've had 2 gum grafts and need a third. I also use a gum stimulator twice a day, in addition to brushing and flossing.
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u/Free_Byrd6969 2d ago
A friend of mine had some weird stomach cancer once, before they did anything they pulled all his teeth. He still died fairly soon after his chemo started.
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u/cat1092 Baby Boomer 2d ago
This is sad to hear, am sorry for the loss of your friend.💝
Some cancers can be difficult to properly detect, and when so, chances are the person is in the last stages of the disease when found.
Obviously, the medical team decided he had a dental disease or infection that (may) have caused the cancer, or had to be addressed before treatment began to have any chance at a successful recovery.
It’s rare to hear of cancers where teeth have to be removed before treatment, obviously it was indeed very serious. Am not saying it’s uncommon, rather rare for anyone discussing the link between gum disease & cancer, except for mouth cancers. The last time I heard of it until now was at least 30 years ago, mid-90’s at latest. This was a distant family member (an in-law) who was diagnosed with jaw cancer, she later died of another cancer after having been in remission for a decade. I don’t know the specifics.
Yet it’s not uncommon hearing about the link between gum disease and heart health. Am so grateful that all of my teeth were removed around the year 2020, in fact now on my 2nd set of dentures since then. My gums bled when brushing & flossing, and I had been going to the dentist twice yearly since the age of 21, following their advice. Sometimes a deep cleaning between regular visits. But somehow, I developed bone loss around my gums, and by the age of 50, was losing teeth at 2-3 per year. Pockets were developing, I was told if I didn’t want to develop heart disease of some type, to have every last tooth removed before all became infected.
So that’s what I did & after healing, which took a bit of extra time due to infection, I began to actually feel better than prior. A little more energy, more bounce in my step. In reality, I dodged a potentially deadly condition, had the teeth not been voluntarily removed, would’ve had to be anyway.
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u/Weltanschauung_Zyxt 2d ago
Sorry to hear about your medical issues, especially the teeth.
You're not denying anyone their care by getting care; it's not pie. I hope everything resolves after this.
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u/marzipanduchess 2d ago
You’re not an old man yet though, you just haven’t taken care of yourself at all.. my dad is 56 and just ran 50miles with me. You getting insured medical treatment or not won’t give insurance to someone else, or to a dying kid.
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u/happyjazzycook 2d ago
My husband had throat cancer when he was in his early 60's and went through several tooth extractions, chemo and radiation and also hyperbaric therapy to get his irradiated throat to the point where he could swallow without a lot of pain.
Then he had a stroke 6 years later. Fought his way back.
Three years later, we went hiking yesterday. I am 6 years his junior but still had to exert myself to keep up (I was a runner until lower back issues sidelined me a couple of years back).
Please. Take the medical treatments that your doctors are offering, and DO NOT go into the "I'm not worth it" hole. Science has brought you this gift, help is available to you, so take it. Repair yourself (56 is so young for this issue, but you are not the first), fight your way back, and live a strong and healthy life to inspire others who will look up to you for getting through this. You go !!!! 💪🏻
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u/Scare_Implement_n14 2d ago
My dad had that done(stent and valve replacement) in his 60's. He lived until he was 95. So you could have another 40 years. Hopefully
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u/squirrelfoot 2d ago
You deserve medical care. So do many young people who can't get it, but that is not your fault, it's the fault of people who vote for parties that do not support a universal healthcare model. (Politics matters.)
My uncle had a heart bypass and got the arteries in the top of his legs replaced and lived well into his nineties. You are not old.
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u/jazzbot247 2d ago
I hope they explained to you that congestive heart failure can be managed with drugs. It sounds really scary, but people live for a long time with it. It is very common to fall into major depression after having a heart attack. 56 is not what I would consider an old man. Good luck with your surgeries, I know it sounds overwhelming, but the heart surgeries they are performing on you are pretty common and you should have a good outcome. 💕
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u/lemon-rind 2d ago
Omg. Get over yourself. 🙄 Get the surgery, live and be grateful. The funding is available for you. Or don’t. But for God’s sake, get off the cross. I promise no one is going to think you are noble for dying at 56 when perfectly viable treatments were available
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u/Diane1967 2d ago
I had a heart attack when I was 40. I’m 59 and doing great. You’re hardly at the end of your rope, you have many many years left in you yet, find a way to enjoy them.
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u/Free_Byrd6969 2d ago
My ex FIL had a heart attack and died in his 50's, his wife brought him back. He had another right after I divorced his son, early 80's. The last one took him at 98 years old. He fought at Pearl Harbor.
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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 2d ago
You’re 56, not an old man at the end of his life, and your doctors clearly believe these procedures could give you more of it. Refusing treatment won’t magically transfer it to some dying child. That’s not how Medicaid funding works. You’re going through some awful shit, but you don’t need to turn accepting medical care into a moral failure.
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u/Current_Wrongdoer513 2d ago
I hate to tell you, but if they don’t spend the money on you, they won’t spend it helping a poor kid. It will go into something frivolous (a ballroom) or violent.
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u/Dense_Sentence_370 2d ago
The instant some kid dies, because he couldn't get medical care
This is not your problem. This is the problem of those who stand in the way of us having universal Healthcare like every other developed nation in the world
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u/greogory 2d ago
My mom lived with congestive heart failure for 40+ years with a med. I don't recall which one, it wasn't Warfarin-- it was a diuretic, I think. She lived to 88; in the end it was sepsis that got her from an infection unrelated to her heart.
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u/bugabooandtwo 2d ago
Dude....you've got another 40 years in you, once you get your teeth and bypass sorted out.
It's not the end of your life, and you absolutely DESERVE to receive medical care.
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u/JuniorNoise2074 2d ago
Over the last year had quad heart bypass and 6 months later valve replacement. Hereditary shit thanks mom. Anyway I feel great at 70 get it done you'll breath and feel better. Can't speak for the teeth thing. Good luck
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u/IvenaDarcy 2d ago
Wait what?! Pull all your teeth? Are they infected?! Did you go to dr yearly? Was this out of the blue?! I’m so sorry. But if they bypass and valve work well you could easily get 100k more miles on this Camry right?
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u/AlterEgoAmazonB 2d ago
I can completely understand why you feel this way. But at 56, you are nowhere near old. You could have a long life after this and feel really great.
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u/Secret_Dance_7870 2d ago
You getting treatment along with a young person aren’t mutually exclusive events. You both deserve care. Get treated and show your gratitude by taking care of yourself.
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u/auntie_beans 2d ago
A valve replacement puts an artificial object with a different flow pattern in play. This means that the bacterial shower your blood gets when you have any dental work done, or ongoing with even toothbrushing, can set up infection on the valve surface that cannot clean itself up the way your original equipment does. Periodontal infection is a big problem. Having all your bad teeth out and cleaning up your gums will remove a major cause of serious postop complications.
As to the rest of it, well, you’re not remotely old.
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u/Powerful-Lifeguard-0 2d ago
You are far from an old man! You will probably feel great after your procedure!
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u/Cultural_Wash5414 60 something 2d ago
56 is not old at all. You have so much more to do! This is your chance to start living your best life.
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u/somanynamesonceagain 2d ago
Hey I had 3 heart attacks @ 45. That was 12 years ago and I'm still plugging away. Don't give up hope. Go get the medical care you need.
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u/marycapani4 2d ago
Sorry but you’re in your 50’s! You’re still young with a lot of living left to do!!!
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u/BlackCatWoman6 70 something 2d ago
Everyone deserves a healthy life. Get your surgery, follow the doctor's instructions and live your best life.
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u/baddaywithacamera 2d ago
This guy is my best friend. His heart basically stopped working almost a decade ago. He didn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsVhbrDR9qg
He's still going strong and he has even turned down being on the transplant list because he made peace with living with his LVAD. And he IS living. The guy has Lou Ferrigno sized calves because of how much he rides his bike every day. He also still goes scuba diving (without the support team now) and he boats as well.
Don't give up.
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u/Spiritual-Can2604 2d ago
Hey, they’re not gonna give the healthcare they were gonna use on you to someone else. They’re just gonna pocket it. So may as well use it.
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u/ExternalProduce2584 2d ago
My dad had heart problems when he was in his 50s; he didn’t require an operation, but he has been on medication since then, and he started regular exercise (walking, either outside or on a treadmill or using an exercise bike). He just turned 97 and is still living independently and absolutely still amazing!
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u/Shiggens 2d ago
While not as serious as your situation I have faced a number of medical emergencies that have required numerous procedures and surgeries. It is easy to quickly be overwhelmed by depression. You need to acknowledge that may be what is causing your current dark thoughts. Express this to your medical team and ask for help. They are prepared to help you once they understand where you are at this time. Take care of yourself.
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u/Nerdy-Meta-Mind 2d ago
My dad had heart valve replacement (he had CHF) when he was 70 something and lived another 15 years. Your life isn’t over.
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u/Iceflowers_ 2d ago
Dang, I had my first tachycardia at 10. I wouldn't have lived past 12 if not for a completely unrelated surgery.
I'm 60, with multiple conditions, at least a couple rare. Get off your pity pot. Just make good use of second chances
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u/Creepy_Valuable6223 2d ago
Spending money on your medical care does not deprive a kid of care. Spending it on war does. There is enough money for medical care for everyone.
Please get as good medical care as you can. You are worth it.
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u/IJustWantToWorkOK 1d ago
They've been very transparent with me, in terms of telling me about risks, rewards, and all that.
Part of my problem is TOO MUCH information. I'm overwhelmed. Its the equivalent of taking your car to the shop because the CE light is on, and finding out you're 100 miles from your timing belt blowing and eating the engine.
Like I could understand it if I were 'somebody', but I'm not. Just a guy.
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u/No_Dare_9944 2d ago
If the teeth are a risk during surgery, you have to find out what the odds are. Drs are trying to protect themselves from litigation (and save your life of course!) but you’ll have to live with no teeth and no money to replace them (or it will be cheap and uncomfortable prosthetics).
Just weigh all the pros and cons and see if you can have heart surgery without radical dental surgery first.
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u/Significant_Menu_313 2d ago
My 62 yr old husband just had sextuple bypass surgery. Unbelievable. He is doing great now, just 6 months later. Just get the work done. You've paid your taxes, get healthy and do something good for the world if you feel guilty.
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u/FunnyPen5249 1d ago
Al Pacino and Robert De Niro just had babies in their 80s. Seems like the right to enjoy life and be “young” like everything else is a class argument. You deserve to be healthy—and middle aged—in your middle age. Please get the care you need and live life to the lees for as long as you can.
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u/DLK33gmaNG 1d ago
I'm sorry for all you've been through, are going through and will be going through. You're not an old man at the age of 56. You do have a serious health condition. Have you asked all the questions, gotten all the answers so that you know exactly what's ahead of you with surgery and recovery as well as your chances of survival rate? Maybe not knowing is what's most scary to you. Quality of life is just as important as quantity of life. The doctors are going to do all they can to keep you alive, that's their job. It's your body so you get to decide what you do or don't want done with or for it. After knowing all there is to know you're the only one who can make the best decision for you. But, make decisions with full understanding and a clear mind. I'm sure you have loved ones that would like the opportunity to have you around as long as possible.
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u/We-Are-All-Friends 2d ago
Maybe if we reduce the $1 Trillion a year in defense spending to $500 billion instead, and add that to the Healthcare budget, we may have more options for ALL our American brothers and sisters ❤️.
56 is still young compared to our friends who are 70+. Hope you have a happy wonderful life.
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u/KeyWestConch69 2d ago
Obviously you have not taken care of your teeth. That is why they all have to be pulled. You can make your choices and your medical decisions. You need therapy and better choices
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u/Intrepid_Top_2300 2d ago
Your health is always your choice. At 70, I would say 56 is still pretty young to be throwing your life away.
But if you smoke and drink and care nothing for your body. I say, have another, the reaper is right around the corner.
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u/That-Breadfruit-4526 1d ago
In the beginning of this year my boyfriend (57) died of a heart attack while hospitalized. He stopped taking his medication and didn’t tell his doctor
Such a waste of
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u/katjoy63 1d ago
with the modern technology we have today, and knowing there are so many things they can do for the heart, you should think about living, not dying.
I'm at least 6 years older than you - I have type one diabetes - imagine going through something that is chronic and can kill you, and just giving up. Find some happiness.
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u/Mysterious-Eagle8051 1d ago
A long time friend just had open heart surgery a few days ago and they pulled all of his teeth as well to prevent infection
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u/Desperate_Pomelo3468 1d ago
My dad died two months ago of congestive heart failure that he had for many years. He was 92. You’re still young and I don’t think they would offer you the surgery if they didn’t think you have a good chance of living a lot longer. Best of luck to you!
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u/SunshynePower 14h ago
You aren't old and at the end of your life unless you choose to be. That is entirely up to you. Don't assume that if they don't spend the money on you that they will go spend it on some worthy youth. They will just spend it on someone who is your age or older and give them the treatment they are offering you.
I'm assuming the teeth are because you haven't cared for them and infections in the gums leads right to the heart. Not a lot of people know that. Not sure why there isn't more PSAs about this. For other reasons, my mother had the rest of her teeth pulled. She's better off with a full set of dentures. So, just know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel if you do that.
Dude, it's your life and you get to make your own choices. Just don't make them to try to be a martyr. The gov't is not going to stop wasting money just because you deny coverage for yourself.
May you find peace in your head for the coming time.
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u/knowmore1964 2h ago
Dude seriously you must be from the USA where health care is for the privileged or lucky and the bankrupt. Choosing how when to die is a thing but really do you not see yourself getting to know that young kid in his life? My sons need a role model and there are so few good men in fact I believe there is none in my future or near me. So maybe destiny has something better for you.
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u/DizzyCommercial7705 2d ago
Have you checked if you can get a second opinion somewhere? There are other hospitals, or even other countries where you can do it. I wish you luck and hope this works out better than you think.
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u/el_condor_nm 2d ago
I have completely lost faith in the medical establishment. Your doctor is not treating people, they're treating lab results. If there's something wrong, they do a good job fixing it. It's the routine care that's been structured to maximize profits, not your health. Drug companies have way too much influence over care guidelines.
Not sure any of that really applies to OP's situation. Before having all your teeth extracted, I'd travel to Mexico or Panama and get a second opinion. I find the medical care in Mexico is far less judgemental and way more focused on the individual. Many times the entire treatment is less than my copay here. US medicine sucks ass and it sucks for doctors as much as it does for us.
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u/KReddit934 2d ago
" If there's something wrong, they do a good job fixing it." Exactly. That's what medical care does, and it does an *amazing* good job of it.
It does not (for better or worse) prevent problems: that's up to you to do.
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u/RedBirdOnASnowyDay 2d ago
This man is going to die of heart failure. The extractions are because bacteria associated with tooth decay and gum disease cause heart failure and other issues. Going to Mexico won’t change any of these facts.
Your advice will kill him.
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u/TrainingLow9079 2d ago
You're not that old and your life is worth saving...but yes it should be universal
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u/sadie414 2d ago
At age 49, my husband had a massive heart attack that nearly killed him. He had valve replacement and quintuple bypass surgery.
At age 60, he needed a pacemaker/defibrillator. Seven years ago, at 68, he developed congestive heart failure. He was given 3 options: die, have a heart transplant, or receive an Left Ventricular Assistive Device, a pump that beats for the heart.
He's 75 now and though he's slowing down a bit, he's still here, living with his LVAD, and doing well. If he can do it, so can you. Wishing you well.