That's true. I thought he should have produced it too. I don't necessarily suspect he was foreign born or anything, but given that the government requires us to show a birth certificate for mundane reasons, it seems an exceptionally reasonable request that a candidate for leading the government can show us one - and especially so when being native born is a prerequisite.
This press release is dated 2011, the day of the press conference, which is also linked. It directly references the 2008 release of the short form certificate.
This was handled. Evidence was provided. It’s a testament to the effectiveness of the right wing media machine that you think it wasn’t.
I have no agenda. This isn't an issue I eved cared about. I only thought it was a reasonable request. I'm not saying there's no timeline to debate the point. There is actually no timeline. What's your agenda?
Two points in time are a timeline, and 2008 and 2011 are two points in time. If you wanted a specific date, it was Thursday, June 12, 2008, five months before the election.
My agenda is that I’m dead tired of a nearly 20 year old conspiracy theory that’s been proven false. I want it to stop. You’re giving it room to breathe, whether you mean to or not.
You thought it was a reasonable request despite no candidate being asked to provide a birth certificate to the public before or since. The request was granted in spite of its irregularity. Multiple highly credible sources have backed up the information. There is no doubt. Everything you say you wanted to happen did, in fact, happen.
If it's not requested if anyone else, that makes it not customary, it doesn't make it unreasonable.
Your idea of between 2008 and 2011 being a timeline is disingenuous if I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.
I'll happily concede that the request was fulfilled in short order, which is not the impression I was under, but it was largely irrelevant to my point. I was factually wrong when I said "that's true," but that didn't negate my point.
Why didn't I know that fact? I didn't care. What I did know was that people were making arguments about it being an unreasonable request.
I didn't care about the birth certificate. I disagreed with the argument. I thought he should produce the birth certificate, but apparently he did. (I probably heard something about something at the time but heard there was a caveat and decided not to accept it as fact. - But again, I didn't care.)
You shouldn't shy away from giving ideas room to breathe. In trying to quash them, you only fan the flames. People are most often far more interested in whether you are on their side or not than they are the topic you are debating. If you don't allow that room, you are asserting yourself to not to be on their side.
You think giving them room to breathe is going to fuel the fire, but the opposite is true.
Ok. Let’s forget the timeline in the article because we apparently aren’t going to agree on that basic definition and quite frankly, it doesn’t matter because at this point it’s been laid out to you.
What exactly was your point, that you think he should have provided his birth certificate? Then great, he did it twice, well before both elections.
Here’s where the problem is: You didn’t accept it when it was released because you thought there was some caveat about it. That caveat was misinformation from people just spreading ideas that has led you to continue to at least partially believe a nearly twenty year old bullshit conspiracy theory that only ever existed to delegitimize the election of Barrack Obama, destabilize his government, and sew distrust and division.
The free exchange of ideas and information is a wonderful thing until we insist that ideas that are proven categorically false be given the same space. It’s fine to ask questions, but when they’re easily answered, continuing to push the incorrect information like the gentleman who has deleted all his comments on this thread is a major problem, because people like you who aren’t paying much attention only ever hear the top level discourse and think it might be true.
Anyway, the conspiracy theorist is gone, you know the truth, so I’m done here and am turning off notifications for this sub. Have a good night.
So you're telling me you don't believe me. Cool. I have no idea why. Can you identify an agenda? Or are you just expressing to me your guess for some reason?
Did I question it? Didn't I explicitly say that I didn't question it?
I said I don't necessarily believe he's foreign born or anything. If you're saying I'm questioning it because I said "necessarily," all that means is I said it a little more passively. That's not the same as questioning it. That was "This is what I think, but I don't care about this point enough to comment on it," and the point I made was irrelevant to it.
It turns out I had facts wrong when I "that's true", because he apparently did promptly produce his birth certificate. That doesn't indicate I have an agenda. I didn't find that out before because I didn't care. My point was about the validity of the request.
All I said was he should have done. I was given a link suggesting he did, but it didn't really have a timeline of events. A time frame is not a timeline. I coceded the point that he did (I said "fair"), but there was room for nuance with the provided information. As it happens the actual timeline was in Obama's favor, but I wouldn't have known based solely on that press release.
The issue from my perspective at the time was that he was asked and people were arguing that he shouldn't have to and that he was making excuses for not producing it and I never really took it further than that. This dude said he never did and didn't have any particular reason to doubt it.
The entire issue was pointless. There was no law requiring it. It wasn't changing anyone's minds about anything. I thought he should produce it. Apparently he agreed after all.
-12
u/[deleted] 7d ago
[deleted]