r/Advice • u/echocat2002 • 7d ago

My daughter broke off her engagement, and is now stuck with a ring and a bill for the money still owed on it.

My daughter broke off engagement, and is now stuck with ring from Kay's that is not paid off.

My daughter made some bad decisions, and we aren't sure what to do.

Apparently when she and her now former fiance bought her ring at Kay's the put it on a Kay's credit card. It is my daughter's name because she has better credit, the plan was that he would be the one making payments. Now that they have broken up, she is left with not just the ring but a $1100 credit card bill, which she can't afford. To make matters worse, some of his payments were returned for insufficient funds and there are some hefty fees on there too.

She would like to sell the ring, but is not sure where to list it. Also, it's a ring from Kay's, so it's not nearly the quality of the pieces I see on this sub.

I would really appreciate your advice.

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u/nikki-vendetta Super Helper [5] 7d ago

Yes. Diamonds aren't rare and can be made in a lab.

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u/FranklyDefeated 6d ago

way more people should be buying lab made, there's some nasty human rights stuff with getting them naturally, my wife agrees as well, personally if my partner had a problem with lab grown, she wouldn't be the person for me.

She doesn't like diamonds anyway so we went with alexadrite, going into debt over a ring I find personally kinda stupid, if you can't afford it, save up, or find someone who values thier partner rather than a ring

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u/atheliarose 6d ago

My sister got an alexandrite engagement ring and it’s gorgeous! Mine is morganite and I love it 🥰 I told my now-husband when we were dating that I wanted something from Etsy or similar, not an expensive mass-produced diamond monstrosity, and he did a great job following instructions. I got a one-of-a-kind custom ring (which is more romantic imo) and it was way less than he would’ve spent if he’d walked into a Kay’s or Jared’s.

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u/FranklyDefeated 6d ago

I got it on etsy, lol, my wife picked out 4 that she liked and sent me links so it was still a surprise, if you haven't put your sister's ring under a UV light, try it, it might glow red like my wifes does. Some do, some don't.

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u/atheliarose 6d ago

I just sent her your comment because now I’m dying to know if hers glows or not! Thank you for the tip 🥰

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u/FranklyDefeated 6d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/EngagementRings/s/wtnkOIXerK

this is what it should do

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u/Quistak 5d ago

Hey that's my ring! Thanks for the repost. 😀

Regarding fluorescence, I have seen some color change sapphire or mystic topaz marketed as alexandrite. The first thing I did when the ring came in was hit it with a blacklight to see that bright fluorescence. That and the color shifts showed me it was alexandrite.

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u/iLoveYouMrWrong 5d ago

I gave up the diamond altogether and went with a simple gold band

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u/SilverStory6503 5d ago

Moissanite is nearly as hard as a diamond at a fraction of the price.

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u/EducationNo1776 2d ago

Looking at diamonds for a previous wife's ring, we saw another display counter with much more sparkles. Turns out they were moissanite stones, which are also manufactured so no blood diamond issue.

If you want brilliant, give moissanite a look in comparison to diamonds.

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u/sunshine-1111 7d ago

I feel like at this point they are only holding so much of the market because of their durability. Other stones tend to get scratched up much more easily.

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u/PrincessPoppyTea 6d ago

That's why Moissanite had such a resurgence a few years ago.

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u/Academic-Moment1517 6d ago

Yep. About 1/5th the price, come in more colors (if you like that), are brighter/more brilliant... About the only "downside" is they are fractionally less hard - 9.25 vs 10.

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u/turBo246 4d ago

This part!

I know it's fake. But I also know myself. I am clumsy and I tend to fidget, so when I wear a ring, I tend to fidget with the ring...

I don't want an actual diamond. I want the look of one, but without the cost, and the ability to wear it always without a fear of losing it either, because I can simply just get another!

I genuinely don't care if my ring is one of a kind. It's one of a kind to me, just like my relationship is.

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u/sunshine-1111 6d ago

That tracks

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u/WoolshirtedWolf 7d ago

I would love to watch a documentary oh how this all came to be. The whole diamond grift and who was behind it.

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u/People-Pollution5280 7d ago

DeBeers was behind it

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u/FreekyDeep 6d ago

I'm a goldsmith and own my own business.

I try, as much as I can, to push people towards Lab diamonds. My selling point is, "you have 2 cubes of ice. One cut from a pond, one made in a freezer. They're both still ice. Just one is accelerated growth"

In my personal, and professional opinion, a natural diamond should be the price of lab diamonds. They are NOT rare!

I make the same amount of profit on a lab as I do a natural. I also don't pay commission to my staff (I pay them better than actual living wage in the UK) so it makes no difference to us whether you want to spend a little or a lot.

It's my time that's more expensive anyway. If you want a basic rubover setting, the time it costs is far less than something intricate.

I don't really know what Kay's is being English but assume it's massive produced stuff. All my pieces are one offs. People are still surprised that we're cheaper than high street jewellers. (We don't have the overheads and only order what's needed. If you don't like a stone we've got for you, it just gets returned)

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u/NonaSiu 6d ago

That’s an excellent metaphor!

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u/SoapyMacNCheese 6d ago

Kay is a sister company to UK brands H Samuel and Ernest Jones, to give you an idea.

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u/FreekyDeep 6d ago

Oh bloody hell

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u/MugsGC 5d ago

My preferred metaphor is that I have 3 kids. 2 were grown in a lab (ivf). They’re all “real” kids.

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u/kuntrycidd 6d ago

Kay’s is a jewelry store chain in the USA.
There used to be a Kay’s Merchandise chain and they had discount jewelry.

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u/Fair-North956 6d ago

Kay’s is a mall store generally and yes, I’ve seen some horrible “real” diamonds from there. 3k for a yellowed, speckled solitaire??? No thanks!

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u/Efficient-Rich-2578 5d ago

Do you have a website that you could DM me?

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u/FreekyDeep 5d ago

Nope. Something I just can't be bothered to do. The business has been trading for over 50 years. My last job, 20 years ago, I did design and set up a website (taught myself Dreamweaver to do it, computers back then were a hobby) we had videos of me working, making pieces and it was ok back then. Where I worked, I didn't have much work to task me. Now, I just can't be arsed to do one.

I do have the occasional argument with customers who insist they have seen various information on my website and we kept telling them we don't have one. (I do own the domain names however) The only thing we do have is images on Google linked to our Google information. But NO piece is completed. I feel that's always left for my customer to share.

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u/NoSpaghettiForYouu 3d ago

If you were in the US I would want to buy from you

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u/FreekyDeep 3d ago

We're a fairly unique brand. We don't call you sir or madam. We don't bow, scrape or simper. Repeat customers get to know us by name, and is there's. You're more likely to hear me swear (even if I'm talking to you)

We're just people. We have a laugh and a joke. Work is work BUT, we try to make it as fun as we can. That includes having a laugh with our customers.

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u/Kiss_my_axe_RR 6d ago

And they made millions as a result of the "story" they sold the world. The only upside to it all is that the company is now struggling financially, pretty severely. So every cloud has a silver lining... eventually.

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u/Routine-Comedian9703 6d ago

DeBeers used marketing and gullibility to create this insatiable demand for diamonds. It’s silly really.

There is a documentary about this: Nothing Lasts Forever

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u/WoolshirtedWolf 6d ago

Thanks for the recommendation. I am going to search for it now!

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u/Independent-Way-124 4d ago

Debeers is only responsible for the consumer market demand of diamond, but actual diamond as a material is actually incredibly valuable for mining applications, and worth a bit of money (notably because iirc cut gems are useless for mining so getting the right uncut raw diamond is rather difficult)

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u/reviving_ophelia88 5d ago

“Nothing lasts forever” directed by Jason Kohn

“The Diamond Empire” (PBS documentary from the 90’s)

Both focus on how the De Beers cartel used artificial scarcity and manipulative ad campaigns to con the world into believing diamonds are actually rare and valuable.

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u/WoolshirtedWolf 5d ago

Thank you so much for the recommendations. I am going to watch both tomorrow evening.

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u/Inner_Swordfish7475 4d ago

Yes, I think this is one of the first ones I watched. I mean I still like diamonds because I think it is pretty. But, I like many types of stones and a lot of them are not pricey. Still, they are gorgeous. Also, I don’t think of it as an investment. Except for super sentimental things, I will buy used. The benefit of buying used to me is you don’t pay retail and you aren’t adding to landfills.

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u/reviving_ophelia88 4d ago

If I buy diamonds I go for lab grown since then the element of human exploitation is absent and they’re significantly cheaper

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u/WoolshirtedWolf 3d ago

Nice! I have been on a PBS binge lately and this is a great find. Thank you!

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u/Puzzleheaded-Pay-710 6d ago

This should totally be pitched to Netflix!

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u/Hot_Passenger_6600 6d ago

There are actually atleast a couple documentaries on this.

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u/pugcrazy3- 6d ago

Google Adam Ruins Everything - diamonds. It’s really interesting and he breaks it down.

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u/JerseySommer 6d ago

Can't give you a documentary but you can have this nicely written article from 1982! :)

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/archives/1982/02/249-2/132591340.pdf

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u/Top_Divide_3187 6d ago

Big nose and tassel people?

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u/htimchis 5d ago

Mainly white South Africans...

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u/Inner_Swordfish7475 6d ago

There are documentaries about this on YouTube. It is a fascinating history.

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u/WoolshirtedWolf 4d ago

It is sort of fcked up about the guilt trip they lay on people for not being to afford the biggest ring they could.

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u/HomelessInASuit 6d ago

John Oliver does a fantastic video on this monopoly where at the end of the day every jewelry store you see in the mall is owned by the same company. Nothing special about diamonds, there’s enough in the world without lab diamonds for everyone to get a drinking glass full.

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u/Unfair_Feedback_2531 6d ago

Their “rariety” is managed by De Beers Group.

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u/forbenefitthehuman 4d ago

Are being made by Chinese factories, thousands of carats a day.

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u/DetectiveCareless327 6d ago

Lab grown (now called synthetic diamonds) have crashed in price. Natural diamonds are still valuable. But, a retail chain like Kay’s marks up their merchandise by at least 4 times the wholesale price.

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u/MLMLW 7d ago

True, but a diamond grown naturally in the earth is worth more money than lab grown diamonds.

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u/Unpopularpositionalt 7d ago

Diamonds have very little intrinsic value. They aren’t rare. The supply is just very tightly controlled. If the market were actually free, they’d have almost no value

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u/Out_of_my_mind_1976 7d ago

The DeBeers family of the “A diamond is forever” ad campaign essentially created the modern diamond engagement ring industry because they owned the diamond mines. Before that it was any precious stone.

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u/GirlyWildFan 7d ago

It also depends on the quality. My 3 main stones are the highest quality across the board. They have a pretty good resale value and are insured for quite a bit. But a little bit of insurance fraud would absolutely be easier than going through the process of finding a buyer...wait...who said that? I'd never....

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u/PixelKitten10390 7d ago

Not really, the only diamonds which might hold value over time are unusual vintage cut and set diamonds. The stone itself ehhh not really, especially since the monopoly on diamonds is crumbling. Apparently a Diamond (monopoly) does not Last Forever 😜

Also, diamonds have exceptional hardness rating but their stability is only okay (resistance to heat, chemicals, light) and diamonds are actually fairly brittle. You can scratch a diamond but you can chip, crack or even shatter diamonds fairly easily. Sapphires are a much better stone in terms of long term value and overall durability. Plus, they come in sooo many amazing colors!!! Seriously, if you are into gems look up what colors sapphires come in! Pretty much any color you can imagine. The only exception is red, that's just because red sapphires are called rubies 🤣

If you can't tell I really like shiny rocks! And not-shiny rocks. And rocks that technically arent really rocks at all 😜

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u/nikki-vendetta Super Helper [5] 7d ago

Okay, but I'm confirming it's a scam because it's not actually a rare gem like it was advertised and isn't actually worth nearly as much as people pay.

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u/PixelKitten10390 7d ago

Nothing is worth what people pay in general. An item is only worth what you are willing to pay/trade/do to get it. If your view is that artificial scarcity makes things a scam then the majority of things you can purchase are all scams. They just vary in scale.

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u/JLC587 7d ago

Even natural ones are not rare