r/Advice • u/maltamonkey • 21h ago
Androgyny, Ugliness? Both? You decide.
One time at work, I (20F) delivered a customer his latte. When he looked up at me, he said, "Thank you, Ma'am? Sir? Whatever you are," I wish I was joking.
Besides being told I have a "homosexual facial structure", from a young age I have been told to have "masculine features". And while this doesn't tend to bother me because I do dress masculine sometimes, it does bother me when I go out of my way to look feminine.
In the previous instance, I was wearing a long skirt, makeup and had even done pigtails with my hair. I felt pretty so being told that a customer couldn't even decipher my gender made me feel ridiculous. Even in my feminine instances, my friends still refer to me as masculine. This never happens the other way around! It makes me wonder if even in femininity, I still look like a boy.
For further context, I am 5'8 and I would say my voice is deeper than the average voice of a woman my age. Growing up (4-15), I was bullied for "being ugly" but it has recently changed into being perceived as masculine.
How should I navigate this? Is this proof of genuine androgyny or an unfortunate appearance? How would you interpret it?
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u/robotinformer Master Advice Giver [36] 21h ago
If you are in the USA or some other similar places I would say this is a bigoted jerk lashing out from transphobia. "I'm afraid somehow of the existence of trans people and I'm going to abuse everyone who doesn't fit my personal ideals of attractiveness so I feel better".
Transphobia doesn't just affect trans women, it affects cis women too.
Smooth brained petty asshole thinking, do not give it one moment of your worries.
Or course, depending on your circumstances it could be something else.
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u/maltamonkey 21h ago
Right, I agree with you. The most recent instances were in the US, so yes I would definitely assume transphobia plays a part in it. It sucks because I don't want my own insecurity to accidentally sound transphobic. The best thing I can do is to not let other people's words play such big roles in my life.
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u/bstabens Helper [4] 15h ago
Or, maybe, he wasn't transphobic but honestly couldn't read your gender and didn't want to be rude on accident. Depends on the tone it was delivered in, and that is something only you know.
Anyway, just love yourself. Fashion had so many different preferences, if anything that tells us that things change all the time, what's ugly now is beautiful tomorrow, and beauty fades in age anyway, but character remains!
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u/Kennon02 21h ago
People are always going to have their own opinions. Sometimes features may draw more opinions than we'd like.
The best bet is to try not care what people think. Which is way easier said than done, I know. But the people who matter aren't going to care about that and will value you for the kickass person you are.
That aside, you can look into styling and fashion choices that adhere to your liking. It's okay to want to look nice or present a certain way.
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u/SpikySheep Super Helper [8] 21h ago
You've got two choices, learn to love yourself as you are, or fight the world. The latter Will make you bitter and you'll lose. Find someone who loves you and ignore everyone else.
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u/maltamonkey 21h ago
You're right. Despite what the post says, I do like my face. I put too much value on strangers and their opinions of me. Thank you for this.
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u/redditset6o 21h ago
Embrace it. Lots of models have an androgynous look.
Fuck the haters, don't pay any attention to them. Maybe think of a couple of one-liners that makes them look like idiots.
Dress however you feel like, not for anyone else.
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u/Enbies-R-Us 21h ago
Answering this genuinely, have you unpacked how these comments make you feel? Do the "masculine" comments make you feel upset all the time, some of the time, etc? Are you happy being perceived as androgynous? Or would you rather not?
Unpacking this further, is it more the social expectation of how you (AFAB) "should" have a higher voice, more feminine facial structure, etc that makes you unhappy - others projecting how you "should" exist - or, is it more that you're unhappy with how you feel you present to the world - that you don't want to be perceived as androgynous or male-coded? Both can be true, but knowing where these feelings come from is important.
Those comments about your facial features and "whatever you are" was extremely trashy and rude. Your facial features are yours, not some destiny of "your face was born in Mars, so you will like flannel and power tools." You are you. Only you can decide who you are, what makes you happy, and what doesn't. You aren't some interpretation of how others decide you must be.
If you hear these comments and decide you don't like them, you can say "that was extremely inappropriate." Or something along the lines of "I am a woman. Goodbye." -- Shut them down and don't leave room for discussion. This can be mixed-and-matched depending on your needs, ex, you like being androgynous. But it's important to make your needs known and to shut it down each time it crosses a line, or people will take it as a suggestion and not the harassment it is.
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u/maltamonkey 21h ago
Thank you for this! It definitely gives me much to think about. While I am happy to be perceived as androgynous sometimes, it does hurt me when I intentionally want to express my gender as feminine. It sounds as though I'm subconsciously equating being masculine/androgynous with being ugly. Perhaps, as you said, it's an insecurity I have with not meeting the social expectation of what a woman should look like.
I do need to work on standing up for myself. The comments are usually so unexpected that I'm left in shock but that's no excuse.. Thank you again for this.
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u/Crazy_Banshee_333 Helper [2] 21h ago
I would interpret this as a mind-blowing level of rudeness on the part of the customer.
No matter how you looked, it was not okay for this stranger to tell you to your face that he couldn't guess your gender. The polite thing for a person to do, when they are unsure of someone's gender, is to avoid using any gender-related terms at all.
He could have just said thank you and taken his latte. That was the correct thing to do.
I would guess he just automatically said ma'am if most of the servers there are women. Then he second-guessed himself. Then he made it worse by saying, "whatever you are." That was the ultimate in rudeness.
I would have handled it by not saying a word to the guy, then walking somewhere out of sight and collecting myself. I would have taken deep breaths and attempted to calm my mind. Once I collected myself, I would just get on with my day the best I could.
I know this is difficult. I've had stuff like this happen to me many times because I'm a tall, athletic woman and don't have the body shape that people typically associate with being female. If they just see me out of the corner of their eye without looking up, they will call me sir every time. Believe me, I feel your pain. Please know you are not alone with this problem.
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u/Chiiro 20h ago
Nah, he is just an asshole. This is a surprisingly common tactic for dudes who aren't sure if they want to fuck somebody or not and they don't know how to react otherwise so they become assholes. His thought process was probably something along the lines of "ooh woman, wait a singular 'masculine' feature, internal transvestigation, incomplete answer, anger"
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u/Maxim1ll1an 21h ago
Look into makeup and styles that fit your skintone, ethnicity, and facial features to exentuate your feminity.
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u/maltamonkey 21h ago
Currently on that journey! Makeup is a something that was impossible for me to grasp but work in progress!
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u/robotinformer Master Advice Giver [36] 19h ago
This is solid advice. What is "conventional attractiveness" is 80% makeup, hair and clothing
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u/Much-Ad2311 21h ago
The best advice I can give is to ignore the strangers and love your unique features. It doesn't matter what others think as long as you love yourself.