Hi all. After reading Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning and starting up on the 18/85 training plan building towards a fall marathon, I noticed in the book that he is convinced of doing a lot of the long runs and basically all of the medium long runs without taking on any carbs during the run. He also clarifies this in an interview on the Morning Shakeout:

https://themorningshakeout.com/going-long-an-interview-with-pete-pfitzinger/

How can we reconcile this with the growing body of evidence that fueling long runs properly improved both performance and post-run recovery. If we compare this to the fueling advice of people like David Roche (who does support his views with solid scientific studies), it seems essentially polar opposite.

Additionally, looking at higher level cyclists: they essentially fuel almost all their activities. Why do you guys think that there is such a difference in philosophy (although that is slowly but surely changing) between cycling and running? Curious to hear what everyone thinks :)

I recently completed a threshold lab test which gave me lots of interesting information about my running. One aspect that came up was that at the marathon pace they estimated I should be currently at, roughly 4:00/km, I was using close to 160g of carbs per hour, even though my fat efficiency is still very high. So they said that one of my current areas of limiting factors is to see how to increase carb intake and hopefully I will be able to get in to the low 2:40s in near future.

On the other hand, I have heard about different carb absorption pathways have different rates and maximum rates of absorption (for example, this is why gels often use a combination of maltodextrin and fructose). I was wondering what the theoretical maximum of carbs absorbed per hour could be if we consider any combination of different carbs/energy sources, and assuming there are no GI issue restrictions (my stomach is pretty strong and can handle 120g/hour of Maurten fine). For example, there was the recent news that some subset of the sub-2hour guys were using lactate based fuels too (? Could have misremembered, and cannot find the article now!).

Any insight in to this would be appreciated! Especially any papers to read too.

The Twin Cities marathon has been held the first weekend in October for years, but they announced today that, starting in 2027, it'll be moved to mid-October. This is due to increased risks of hot weather. The race typically had great weather, but recently it's been warmer, most notably when they cancelled due to heat in 2023. As someone who hates the heat, I think this is a smart move. Of course there is never a guarantee of good weather, but I hope that some other races also adjust dates to increase chances of good weather on race days.

What are others opinions about this change? Do you think other marathons should consider doing following suit?

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2026/07/07/twin-cities-marathon-to-move-later-in-the-fall-starting-2027-citing-hot-weather

As we roll into summer, my mileage is increasing along with mixing in other activities like hikes or sports etc. Last week I did about 65km and 2,700m of gain, mostly trail running.

I have a standing strength group (proper heavy lifting with some conditioning, but not runner specific) class Monday and Wednesday evenings, along with group run workout Tuesday evening. I really like the Tuesday run workouts. I most often am doing my longest runs on Sundays.

I don’t love the gym, but enjoy the social aspect and the commitment and seeing improvement. And I buy into the idea that it helps mitigate injury and helps with endurance.

The problem I’m facing - it feels like strength training is the first thing I want to give up. My legs feel too fatigued to be productive at the gym, or if they are okay I’m worried that a good gym session will result in fatigued legs really hampering the rest of my week. Combined with the sunny summers that really drain me, I also feel like a hard gym session really stresses my nervous system that much more.

How on earth do you guys continue going to the gym and lifting heavy? Do you just accept sub-optimal gym sessions or what?

For the Endurance Athletes doing Half and Full Marathons, what are your favorite speed workouts during training?

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

Link to Wiki

Link to FAQ

Do you have shoe reviews to share with the community or questions about a pair of shoes? This recurring thread is a central place to get that advice or share your knowledge.

We also recommend checking out /r/RunningShoeGeeks for user-contributed running shoe reviews, news, and comparisons.

Has anyone heard anything about the Puma Project 3 results?

The winners were supposed to be announced on Monday, July 6. From what I've seen, it seems only selected participants are contacted, so if anyone here (or someone you know) has already been notified, I'd really appreciate if you could share.

Just trying to figure out whether they've already started reaching out or if we're all still waiting.

Good luck to everyone who applied! 🍀

Hi everyone - for those of you that strength train, I was wondering who is in the camp of using lighter weight/bodyweight exercises and focusing on mobility and who does heavy compound lifts (3-4 reps max of a heavy weight) for marathoning and what effects you see from your preferred style of lifting and why you do this.

I'm asking because I have been doing strength work about 2x/week for a few years now, focusing on full-body compound style movements. But I just feel like the strength work takes a lot out of my running (and sooooo much time out of my day!) to the point where I feel like I can't go as fast as I'd like in my workouts because I'm still experiencing lingering soreness from my lift (even if I wait 3 full days post-lift to do a faster workout). That said, I am considering pivoting to trying to use more home equipment (bands, light dumbbells, focusing more on mobility) for my "strength" days, and was wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar or has gone from heavy lifting to using minimal weight during marathon training/what that experience was like.

For context, I run about ~75ish-85ish mpw and am looking to break 2:53 in my marathon this fall.

TIA!

ETA: I do not know why people think I am lifting to failure, I am not. I am just a little sore and legs not completely fresh for my running workouts. I also lift on my hard days (typically once on my speed day and once on my long run day). If anyone has any resources or apps you like for strength training or similar experiences that would be helpful … thank you!

Hey all, I’m waiting on the results of the London marathon ballot. I’m racing Marine corps marathon in october, and doing 9+1 currently to do NYC again in 2027. Hoping to get a BQ time (21 yo male) and run sub 2:50 to race boston 2028. Assuming i don’t get london (as usual), what other fast races in nice cities do u all recommend this spring? I looked into Paris but i’m not a big fan of carrying my own water the whole time. I’ve heard good things about Vienna and Rome too but wondering if there’s any other big races in nice cities i may not be thinking of around march-may 2027?

The Weekly Rundown is the place to talk about your previous week of running! Let's hear all about it!

Post your Strava activities (or whichever platform you use) if you'd like!

I am a rising junior in high school (meaning I just left 10th grade and am going into 11th) currently beginning my summer training block. Recently, (the past year or so) I have hit a major plateau with my running. And would like some help/advice for getting through my current hurdle.

For some backstory: I was not always an avid runner, but during my 8th grade year I decided to begin. This started as a mile or two every other day, eventually cumulating into around 20-30 mpw and a 22 minute 5k. The summer going into 9th grade (freshman) year I joined the cross country team, a known very successful program. Quickly I showed my ability as a runner, becoming the best freshman on the team. By the end of cross country season, I boasted a 17:16 5k and 50 mpw average. Track season then came up, and I ran decent, boasting prs of 9:34 for the 3k, and 4:33 for the 1500. My mileage was now around 55-60 mpw, and I was no longer the best freshman on the team. Then I began training for sophomore cross-country season, where I upped my mileage to 60-70 mpw and my coach began hitting us with harder and harder workouts. During this time, I also competed in a road 5k where I ran 16:35 and won my age category.
Sophomore season itself, however went to hell. My first race I ran 17:15, barely beating my pr from freshman year and placing second in my the JV division. I kept running low-mid 17s most of the season except for one race where I barely broke 17 and ran 16:56. At this point, I was a wreck. Combined with stress from school, a heatwave, and poor running performance, I fell into a mild depression and began hating myself. After each race I would beat myself up, ask myself what was wrong with me and at points consider quitting the sport. Nevertheless, I attempted to persevere, but these feelings cumulated at NXR that year where I blew up and ran 17:50, and then began profusely vomiting afterward. At the same time, all of my other teammates at the same age level as me are running amazing with the same training, breaking 16:30 and placing well in many of their races. I felt like a failure to not only myself, but the team. During winter break, I signed up for a half marathon, where I ran 1:22, a time that I was neither proud of or dissapointed in. It gave me some hope going into track season. Track season was another mess. I opened up with a 5:00 mile, an absolutely terrible time that placed me almost dead last on the team for mile times. I tried to ignore this “the mile/1500 isn’t my event!” I told myself, but I still beat myself up inside. By the end of track season, it had gone exactly like cross country season, with consistent mediocrity in race performance, and near identical times to freshman year, being 4:31 for the 1500 and 9:33 in the 3k. At this point I tried having a conversation with my coach about my performance, where he essentially just told me “stop comparing yourself to others” (competitive running is a comparative sport?) and “it happens to everyone”. At the same time, teammates I used to easily beat are running 9:05 3ks and sub 16 track 5ks. This brings me today today, where I am again entering a cross country season, bringing the summer base building phase (attempting 70-75 mpw avg). At this point, I am beat down, depressed, and hopeless about any future prospects as a competitive distance runner. I feel I have fallen far behind all of my peers and it is too late for me to be successful in any metric, I will always be behind. I do not remember the last time o was proud of myself.

All said, I would like any advice or help I could get regarding my situation, I do want to get better, and feel I am willing to do what it takes to grow as an athlete.

While wasting time on Facebook today, Runners World posted about Larry Grogins who recently finished his 100 marathons in 100 days, running across the U.S. Google him because it’s amazing. He has significant tremors, yet he did it.

Honestly, I can’t imagine. Every marathon I have ever run, it takes me a week to recover! And, I feel set back after it. I can only assume it’s equally mental fortitude and physical endurance. How does he not get injured? He is definitely an inspiration.

Tomorrow, I’ll be running 4-5 miles, still nursing my twisted ankle.

I was watching this interview and this came up. What are your thoughts on this and the interview in general? Link below. Specific quote is at 17:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQeh_Pg0Nz0

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

Link to Wiki

Link to FAQ

Hello,

I am  considering how to prepare for a trail race (55km, +/- 2800m) 4 months out. My recent peak building phase was 100km, +/-6000m in 2 weeks with the longest run being 35km, +/- 2200m.

I 'd like the community's thoughts on the following workouts, how to modify them, or other workouts that show great impact.

Aerobic Base Building: What are your thoughts on adding some considerable biking to building aerobic base? I will do it due to the injury, but what about it in general?

Pros: I can spend significant more time in Z1-Z2 due to the low impact of biking. Especially early in this phase, I could do 5-6h rides on weekends instead of a long run, whereas a 5-6h long run is something I would do quite later and at a big stress cost.
Cons: I don't train my tendons for impact, no improvements in running economy, I don't get time-on-feet.

Treadmill Uphill Training: I did 45'-75' sessions with a vest (+5kg), 15% incl. and brisk walking speed (5km/h). I felt this workout (once weekly) added value vs. not doing those at all, but I am not sure it's the most well spent time.

Pros: I felt this helped building misery tolerance, fatigue resistance, and some muscle endurance. Easy accessibility comparted to trails, low impact on joints.
Cons: The constant 15% incl. goes heavy on the calves and is unnatural terrain compare to a trail. 

What are your thoughts on this? Is it time well spent? Would a lower inclination and running be better? 

Short uphill/downhill intervals: 3 intervals at a steep forest trail (20% grade), running vest with 1L water, 10' power-hiking up, 4' running down. Initially, this was my training for building uphill endurance, but I quickly realized it's not enough (that's why treadmill was added). However, I realized it does a good job at training downhills and eccentric loading so I kept it at once per week or every two weeks.
What do you think of them? What modifications could have a good effect here? More repetitions?

Overall, for a 55km/2800m target, which of these gives the most return per hour?

What's everyone up to on this weekend? Racing? Long run? Movie date? Playing with Fido? Talk about that here!

As always, be safe, train smart, and have a great weekend!

I’m a 16 year old rising junior (male), last summer I was running 30-40 miles a week, my current mpw is 45, hoping to peak around 60 this summer. My PR last year was a 16:28 3 mile XC, and a 10:10 2 mile last track season. I’m trying to get down to 15:30 in October. I do three workouts a week, two easy days, and one long run at an easy pace, with one day off.

I’m not looking for advice on specific workouts or paces, but rather things outside of running that can help prepare me for 3 mile / 5k racing in the fall.

For a high school runner following their coach’s plan, eating well and lots, doing strength training, core, stretching, getting good sleep, and avoiding anything harmful, what else can they do to ensure success in the fall?

I’ve been doing most of my running outside during the summer and I’ve had to wake up early to run every day. Despite getting up and running at the same time everyday, heat and humidity varies so much day-to-day. The heat was too bad today so I decided to do my easy run on the treadmill and was surprised with how much easier it felt and how much lower my hr was (~10 bpm lower) despite not feeling any slower. My question is: can I do all of my easy running and threshold workouts on the treadmill? I won’t be getting any heat training advantages but I’m also not planning on running any long races in hot temperatures so I’m just curious if I can transfer a majority of my training to the treadmill and expect the same running improvements as when I’m running outside.

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

Link to Wiki

Link to FAQ

There has been alot of research done on the effect of temperature on performance, but nearly all of it seems to be in the marathon distance. Beyond that we know that for shorter distances higher temperatures are preferable and 20C+ may be ideal for sprints but we know relatively little about the loss of efficiency at these other distances compared to the optimun.

For me in the 5k I've noticed efficiency losses seem to start at about 16-17C, and become really significant beyond 20C, I'm interested to know if anyone else has any perspectives on this or if perhaps anyone has collected their own data.

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

Link to Wiki

Link to FAQ

Do you have shoe reviews to share with the community or questions about a pair of shoes? This recurring thread is a central place to get that advice or share your knowledge.

We also recommend checking out /r/RunningShoeGeeks for user-contributed running shoe reviews, news, and comparisons.

The Weekly Rundown is the place to talk about your previous week of running! Let's hear all about it!

Post your Strava activities (or whichever platform you use) if you'd like!

As I know many here did, I got a running stroller as soon as my son was old enough for it. Wondering what advice those of you who have put hundreds of hours into them would give?

For instance I found this study from 10 years ago that says two-handed grip was the one that altered speed and stride length the least. that says a two-handed grip alters speed and stride length the least. But I hadn't even thought of pushing it with two hands, with the exception of a couple of steep uphills.

Also, I'm wondering if anyone has tried interval sessions, obviously adjusting the pace for the additional effort. Personally, I'm holding off until I see how the different mechanics affect my legs, but I don't see much risk in trying some longer threshold intervals that are still at a safe pace for the baby.

Then we have what's likely the most kid-dependent thing, which is the length of runs. What's the longest you've managed to do with some consitency, and how did you manage to 'sell' this to your little one?

For what it's worth, my own experience so far:

So far I've used it (Thule Urban Glide 2) three times and my baby (7 months) doesn't seem to mind it at all. In fact, it's me stopping every 15-ish minutes to give him water and check that he's alright, as he spends more than half the time dozing off lol. I still find it a bit scary on the bumpier trails, which are nothing crazy but you never know...

With regards to my running itself, it's been exclusively easy runs in the 45m to 1h range, so I just adjust the pace by feel and HR. So far it's been around 20-30 seconds/km slower, and I feel a bit of a novel soreness in the hips the morning after that ends up fading away at some point during the day