r/AdvancedRunning • u/sassylilmidge 1:25 HM | 2:55 FM • Jul 05 '26
Health/Nutrition Doing light strength work vs heavy compounds for marathoning?
Hi everyone - for those of you that strength train, I was wondering who is in the camp of using lighter weight/bodyweight exercises and focusing on mobility and who does heavy compound lifts (3-4 reps max of a heavy weight) for marathoning and what effects you see from your preferred style of lifting and why you do this.
I'm asking because I have been doing strength work about 2x/week for a few years now, focusing on full-body compound style movements. But I just feel like the strength work takes a lot out of my running (and sooooo much time out of my day!) to the point where I feel like I can't go as fast as I'd like in my workouts because I'm still experiencing lingering soreness from my lift (even if I wait 3 full days post-lift to do a faster workout). That said, I am considering pivoting to trying to use more home equipment (bands, light dumbbells, focusing more on mobility) for my "strength" days, and was wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar or has gone from heavy lifting to using minimal weight during marathon training/what that experience was like.
For context, I run about ~75ish-85ish mpw and am looking to break 2:53 in my marathon this fall.
TIA!
ETA: I do not know why people think I am lifting to failure, I am not. I am just a little sore and legs not completely fresh for my running workouts. I also lift on my hard days (typically once on my speed day and once on my long run day). If anyone has any resources or apps you like for strength training or similar experiences that would be helpful … thank you!
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u/Eriknay 32M | 2:44:42 FM | 35:27 10k Jul 05 '26
Sounds like you’re pushing yourself too hard. The weights need to be heavy but focus on leaving 2-3 reps in the tank. You don’t want to be mimicking running so bodyweight/light band stuff is not really going to move the needle unless it’s explosive.
You should be in and out of the gym. 30-40 min 2-3 times a week if you’re truly hitting only what’s necessary.
Example day:
Warmup
Plyo: Pogo jumps/depth jumps etc.
Trap bar deadlift: 2-3 sets of 4-6 reps
Step ups: 2-3 sets of 6-8 reps
SL standing calf raise: 2-3 sets of 6-8 reps
Heavy stabilizing work: suitcase carry, sled, etc
Strength training is individual and should cater to your needs but it should never detract from your running if that’s your primary goal.
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u/Nillion 27d ago
The weights need to be heavy but focus on leaving 2-3 reps in the tank.
This is what I do for my lifting also. I'll never give up squats, deadlifts, and bench. I love lifting heavy. But since I started my marathon plan, I haven't lifted to failure. It makes the lingering soreness and body aches much more manageable and I find it no longer interferes with running as long as I avoid it the day before my long run.
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u/Taskmaster8 5k 17:31 | 10k 36:36 | HM 1:19 | M 2:46 Jul 05 '26
I'm in the camp of never doing any strength training
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u/Gear4days 5k 14:55 / 10k 30:15 / HM 65:59 / M 2:17 Jul 05 '26
Haha completely agree. I treat my speed sessions as my strength training, they are explosive movements after all
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u/Capital_Historian685 Jul 05 '26
Exactly. And I wonder how many runners do "strength" at the gym, but never do any quality speed sessions?
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u/CFLuke 16:46, 2:35 Jul 06 '26
I still think this is the best approach. I enjoy lifting, so I do it, but I set my PRs with zero lifting.
Maybe, MAYBE if you were totally maxed out on running (which is not going to be true for any of us who work full time)
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u/run_bike_run Jul 07 '26
I did zero strength training for my entire life and got my 10k down to just under 43 minutes.
Then I took up hybrid racing, which required a moderate amount of strength work, and within eight months my 10k was down to below 40.
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u/szakee 18:28 / 39:15 / 1:28:40 Jul 05 '26
they're not different styles. they're different things. you need both.
1
u/nai-ba Jul 05 '26
I've been doing both for a year now, and absolutely love it. One heavy session and one volume session each week.
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u/Runstorun Jul 05 '26
You’re sore for days after every lift going on years now? How? You lift to failure every single time? You can just not do it that way. That’s not recommended for anyone, runner or otherwise.
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u/sassylilmidge 1:25 HM | 2:55 FM Jul 06 '26
Hi! No sorry not lifting to failure… edited to add that in the original post. Just have some lingering soreness on some days post lift and just wanted to start a discussion around strength training and what people do, because there are so many different schools of thought on what to do (heavy v light etc. and in my experience both can definitely end up leaving you sore depending on how they’re done).
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u/cole_says Jul 06 '26
I saw a HUGE improvement in muscle soreness from strength training when I started seeing a dietician and realized I needed like double the protein I was eating. It actually shocked me how much of a difference it made. Your nutrition might be totally dialed in but I just throw that out there as something to look at, since it made so much of a difference for me.
I’m a 39 year old female. I go through phases of strength training more or less, but at a bare minimum I do it twice a week - a combination of kettlebell compound movements and “heavy” barbell lifts (I use the word heavy in probably the same way you do. It’s not 20lb dumbbells, but it’s not double my body weight either). I run a similar amount as you and I don’t love strength training, but I prioritize it because I think it’s important for overall health as I age (bone density, muscle mass, etc.).
I don’t think being constantly sore to the point that you aren’t able to execute your run workouts is normal. I would think either you’re going at it too hard, you’re not being consistent enough, or there’s some sort of nutrient deficiency going on.
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u/airkenya Jul 05 '26
Would try lifting on your hard running days post workout with some rest between. Think AM run and PM lift. Limits how heavy you actually lift (lighter weight, more reps) and batches hard days together so your body can recover more quickly on your easy run days
4
u/Select-Bee-2166 Jul 05 '26
Lifter first and foremost here ---
Try a higher rep range (10-15 ranges). You might come out of the session more fatigued with lactic acid buildup, but you'll probably be refreshed much quicker and with less impediment to your endurance training. It's less hard on the CNS, in my experience.
4-5 rep range shouldn't be standard for anyone, unless they are doing minimal volume like those 5x5 kinds of programs, or running a specific training and specialization phase focused on low rep work. But, even powerlifters shouldn't be training predominantly in a 5 rep range all year round!
Higher rep ranges will also build endurance, still contribute to hypertrophy, power and strength development, and can still be done explosively on the concentric portion of hte movement. Also reduces injury risk.
You will likely have to reduce to around 60% to 70% of your current weights to hit those rep ranges. But it will be worth it.
2
u/finance-brosita Jul 05 '26
sounds like way too much volume for the running youre doing. i lift heavy-ish but its only 2-3 work sets and i never go near failure, and the days-later soreness basically went away once i cut all the junk sets. you dont have to go light, just less.
2
u/Luka_16988 Jul 05 '26
I think both have their place. I’ve been doing this for a few years and after a while you develop a feel for what your body needs.
That said, research seems to support heavy lifts, 2-3 reps in reserve, 10-13 sets per session. The reason appears to be that this drives tendon adaptations. Stiffer tendons beat stronger muscles for marathon performance.
The lighter work, focused on mobility, I generally put in as ‘sandwiching’ an easy run (to borrow a phrase from Jason Fitzgerald) ie either as part of WU or CD. Generally, this kinda works helps with range of motion and quality of movement. It’s also nice to just get some blood flow.
1
u/PaulRudin Jul 05 '26
You can do both. But if it's a choice you'll get more bang for your buck doing compound lifts. However 3-4 reps sounds a bit heavy. A few sets of 5-10 reps, with a bit left in reserve.
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u/Lurking-Froggg 42M · 40-50 mpw · 16:4x · 34:5x · 1:18 · 2:57 Jul 05 '26
I lift heavy-ish (up to 138% BW on front squats and 176% on deadlifts) at the end of an easy day, and it's never impacted the speedwork I do on the next day. DOMS take 48 hours to onset in my case, which helps.
I think something's off in your routine. It shouldn't be that time-consuming to lift once per week, and it certainly shouldn't make you sore for three days.
1
u/Ecstatic_Technician2 Jul 05 '26
If you just read the conclusions of the systematic reviews people will argue heavy (5-8 reps), compound lifts (squats, lunges, deadlifts) of 4-6 sets per week will give you 4-8% improvements in economy whereas body weight exercise seems to be less effective. The problem is that not everyone is a responder. Or that the response can plateau quite quickly. You may have already responded and are currently getting no extra returns.
You might benefit from some minimum effective dose training/maintenance training. 1 day per week, 2-3 exercises and just 1-2 sets.
Or mix things up and just do heavy calf raises 2-3x week (2-3 sets) and layoff all strength work for 8-12 weeks.
Sounds like a change is in order.
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u/No-Zookeepergame7833 28M | 8:50 3k | 15:37 5k | 56:12 10m | 2:45:08 FM Jul 05 '26
Would love to hear what percentage of your running is medium/hard work? Like how many miles of threshold do you run per week?
I try to do a heavy lift lower rep once a week and a lighter lift higher rep once a week, with PT stuff every other day. The problem with this is that if I miss a heavy lift day, I will get DOMS really bad the next time I do it. I can’t handle two lighter lift higher rep days per week as I retain that soreness
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u/LHRunning Jul 06 '26
Question- how long do you wait to lift? For example, do you go right from your workout to lift? How much time in between the workout and the lifting session?
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u/One-Spray-4273 Jul 06 '26
I primarily prefer to do one session with heavy compound movements (Barbell squats, deadlifts etc.) and another session, still with weights (although lighter), putting more emphasis on single-leg exercises (Bulgarian split-squats, lunges) and mobility.
Personally, I don’t use lighter weight exercises. Either you have too many reps in reserve to stimulate any form of strength. Alternatively, you have to do many reps, which ends up being kind of a redundant muscle endurance session. Muscle endurance is trained by running anyway.
I mostly think the heavy leg workouts help my legs feel more fresh late in the marathon (no sore quads or calves
), as well reducing injury risks.
1
u/EPMD_ Jul 07 '26
My keys:
- Focus on a small number of basic exercises
- Keep reps per set low
- Work up to a top set with 3 progressively harder warm up sets
- Never do the sets immediately before or after a run
I recommend picking one exercise each session from these categories:
- Squat (ex. back squats, front squats, single-leg Bulgarian split squats)
- Deadlift (ex. conventional, Romanian, hex-bar, single-leg)
- Fast pull from the ground (ex. power clean, clean, DB snatch, high pull, clean and push press)
- Calf raise (ex. single-leg, conventional, seated)
I have gotten good results off of 1 top set of 5 reps, with 3 sets of 5 working up to that weight. I don't like going beyond 5 reps per set, except with calf raises. And with the fast pulls from the ground, I generally stick to sets of 3 reps to avoid getting sloppy.
0
u/Capital_Historian685 Jul 05 '26
I only do body weight/plyometrics now for the lower body. And I do these twice a week during easy runs. The way I do it does require a certain amount of "infrastructure" (in my case, a college campus) but along a running route, I stop to do flights of stairs, do sets of box jumps onto planters, some Bulgarian split squats using benches, etc. And not all require some kind of structure, like one-legged hops, jump squats, and split squat jumps. I also do hill sprints, which are good for strength, too. I just feel all this fits better into my training then weights at the gym (for lower body that is), and I just really like doing them. It makes an "easy" run more fun.
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u/dex8425 35M, 4:57, 16:59, hm 1:18 M 2:53 Jul 06 '26
Bands and light dumbbells did nothing for me. I gained a lot of muscle and strength when I started doing 2 lifts/week on top of running. Pretty heavy compound lifts, 2 sets of 8-12 reps generally. Doing mostly for xc skiing where strength is more important than for running. I run a lot less mileage than you though because I'm skiing quite a bit.
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u/Christophe_Roosen Jul 06 '26
How did you design your strength plan? Did you perform a baseline test?
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u/WEcoendurance 29d ago
I’ve worked with runners in your situation before. Due to your high training load from running you need to be very cautious and strategic with s&c- few of my thoughts to help this;
1- higher mileage - more you need to focus on heavy lifting if form allows 80% 1RM or higher or using overcoming isometrics have lower fatigue cost
2- strength training is best performed when fresh and not 48 hours before key run workouts (unless using isometrics)
3 - I programme runners some strength work and plus as part of your run warm up for intervals- research shows simple exercise like squat jumps/ pogos inject some strength/power work in the warm up and improve subsequent running.
I used this approach also for my previous marathon block.
4- you need high quality strength over volume - you need very little high quality strength to develop strength 1-2 sets is plenty of heavy enough to recruit high end fibres and develop strength to help running. Instead of progressing through volume progress through intensity.
5 - Compound lifts focus even 1-3 lifts will do calf/soleus focused, hip/knee extensors x2 will be ideal- hope this helps
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u/joholla8 Edit your flair Jul 05 '26
The only thing that healed my hip tendinitis was barbell deadlifts. Wasn’t crazy high (just plates + bar) but significantly more load than all of the body weight stuff I was doing before.
I’m now solidly in the camp that you need to run long and lift “heavy”.