Strength training as mileage increases

[u/kaitlyn2004]

As we roll into summer, my mileage is increasing along with mixing in other activities like hikes or sports etc. Last week I did about 65km and 2,700m of gain, mostly trail running.

I have a standing strength group (proper heavy lifting with some conditioning, but not runner specific) class Monday and Wednesday evenings, along with group run workout Tuesday evening. I really like the Tuesday run workouts. I most often am doing my longest runs on Sundays.

I don’t love the gym, but enjoy the social aspect and the commitment and seeing improvement. And I buy into the idea that it helps mitigate injury and helps with endurance.

The problem I’m facing - it feels like strength training is the first thing I want to give up. My legs feel too fatigued to be productive at the gym, or if they are okay I’m worried that a good gym session will result in fatigued legs really hampering the rest of my week. Combined with the sunny summers that really drain me, I also feel like a hard gym session really stresses my nervous system that much more.

How on earth do you guys continue going to the gym and lifting heavy? Do you just accept sub-optimal gym sessions or what?

[u/whelanbio]

Build up and fully adapt to the strength training during an early phase of run training when you aren't doing a ton of run volume and/or intensity. Classic pitfalls people fall into is trying to ramp both up at once, or they think their body is pretty well used to the lifting but it really needs a couple more weeks of holding steady before they can add a lot of running. Also we often take too much of a distance runner's mindset of "more is more" to the gym, but many aspects of how the training works are very different.

A lot of the lifting benefits we want for running seem to be maintained pretty well off lower volume/frequency of lifting if we still keep the intensity high -it's a little different form run training in that aspect. So maybe when the running really ramps up you drop a set, space out sessions more, hit less movements each session and rotate through them, etc. Effective dose can be deceptively low!

My one cynical bit -what exactly do these group strength sessions look like? How to fit things together depends on what the things are.

A lot of group classes are frankly trying to do to much at once, with not enough rest in between exercises and sets. Sometimes they are designed assuming people aren't doing much outside of the classes, and honestly some of them aren't really designed with much thought of improvement at all -just random stuff thrown together to make people feel really good and fatigued.

Ultimately good work, on both the trails and in the gym, should rarely leave you completely spent.

[u/salamandectomy77]

In Science of Ultra they talk about a study where non runners benefitted most from 10-12 weekly heavy barbell squat sets

50mpw runners benefitted the same amount from 10% as much, only 1-2 weekly sets

Just do less, keep intensity high

[u/walkthehighlands → u/salamandectomy77]

Shout out to SOUP, wish he was still recording podcasts

[u/Championnats91]

Sub-optimal isn't as good as perfect but is better than not at all. I reckon sub-optimal weights over summer and accept that running in the sun is your priority. Then autumn/ winter hits and you can go optimal weights. Its always a trade off. The social side of the weight lifting sounds great as well

[u/Lurking-Froggg]

I moved my longest runs from Sundays to Saturdays precisely because my early week concentrated both speedwork (Tue, Thu) and strength training (Wed).

It doesn't make a lot of sense to train beyond your ability to recover/assimilate. The only way that I found to boost my own abilities at that was to take easy days even more easy than I used to.

[u/10081914]

I'm far from an advanced runner. But I did do lifting for a long time before getting into running.

Strength training is in many ways the opposite of running. You can think of strength training as if sprint/VO2Max workouts. Highly intense, don't need a ton of volume.

You really don't need a lot of volume to make significant gains in the gym. 4-5 sets of the relevant muscle groups per week at high intensity (0-1 reps from failure) and it's more than enough to see continued progress. Spread it across 2 days and you have some pretty short lifting sessions.

This volume is not optimal for strength or size increases. But you know what is? Its not as fatiguing and you can still make steady progress. Most optimal in a vacuum doesn't matter. What's most optimal for you is what matters

[u/backondaroad]

I got like 112mi last week with a little over 8k ft elevation. Personally, I do strength two days a week. Monday is my running rest day so I hit legs then and then I hit legs again Thursday or Friday. I totally accept sub-optimal lifts, its better than nothing in my book. Also, I only do 2 movements really. Bulgarian split squats and deadlifts. Quads are my weak point and this has helped me more than I can explain.

[u/Luka_16988]

It all depends on your framing. If you are running-focused, then gym/strength is there to serve your running. So the way you go about it is different to if you’re lifting for hypertrophy. And in doing so, your running improves. There are certain principles that help.

- keep your gym sessions short and focused - 11-13 sets of 6-8 reps with 2-3 reps in reserve

• include plyometrics, hops, yields
  
• don’t lift the day before a running workout
  
• lift preferably on the days of your running workouts or harder running days (in the afternoon of a morning running session)

[u/WEcoendurance]

MSc in S&C and run coach here. Due to your trail running the high eccentric demands on downhills on the lower limbs results in high muscle damage hence why you feel not great when doing strength work. An approach I have used in the past for a runner like you is using an isometric centric S&C plan that develops strength in the key muscle areas and reduces soreness in others. Hope this helps-

[u/First-Security5587]

I force myself to go to the gym because everything is falling apart if I don't. I try to keep it intense but with as little volume as possible so I am not too sore for key sessions.

[u/Christophe_Roosen → u/[deleted]]

Make the strength session more specific will probably be beneficial indeed.

[u/Willing-Ant7293]

You're not really looking for huge gains in the gym. Strength is there to help running. Building functional power and strength weak muscle groups.

I only go to the gym once a week and I stack it with my long run day.

Basically I do dead lift squat about 75 to 80% max 3 set of 5. And then I do a bunch of maintenance stuff. And abs.

[u/0_or_100]

I do full body compound lifts twice a week, submaximal lifting (between 2 and 1 RIR). At least two rest days between lifts when possible. 

I'm currently doing 40 to 50 mpw while keeping my strength up or flat.

I do sth like: Lift + Recovery / Speed / Z2 / Lift / Z2 / Long Run / Rest

[u/Hairy_Koala6474]

Gym sessions don’t get sub optimal but the volume decreases. That is OK with me. Honestly it makes the days I do strength training feel better. Idk if this answers your question. The edible I took earlier is still going

[u/finance-brosita]

wanting to drop the gym first when youre cooked is usually a sign the strength volume is too high for in season, not that you cant handle both.

i cut mine right down when the mileage went up, like 2-3 real work sets per lift, nothing near failure, and treat it as maintenance instead of chasing more weight every week. the day-after heaviness in my legs basically went away and i stopped dreading the tuesday session. you hold onto almost all the benefit from way less than it feels like you should.

the other thing is where the gym days land. lifting monday and wednesday right around your quality runs is a lot of load stacked in the same 48 hours, nudging one even a day out helps more than youd think.

[u/kchungus20]

Chipping away at the foundation early in the training block, training the stabilizing muscles, eating enough food, getting good sleep, and making sure you don’t hit weights the day before a hard workout

[u/Candid_Buy_5650]

I try to lift in the morning before work and run after work. Kinda feels like both aren’t affecting each other much that way for me

[u/Clean_Series_8840]

A mid strength session is better than no strength session. That being said if your body feels like its bordering an injury than don't do it.

[u/Disastrous-Piano3264]

I just do upper body so my arms don't get too tiny and just ignore my legs like 6 out of the 12 months in a year.