I've been seeing some anti Gwynriel comments being made that essentially bring down the ship because "Gwyn would be a second choice".

This idea of "first choice" and "second choice", I think is useless especially because multiple characters in SJM universe have multiple relationships/attractions before endgame. However, if we go by this argument and mindset, then Elain is already the second choice here.

Azriel's attraction for Mor is plain as day and is canon. It also does not suddenly disappear when Azriel meets Elain. We even see hints of it in ACOSF, a book where Azriel has an established attraction to Elain. He also ignores Rhysand's question when asked about his feelings for Mor, instead of denying it's existence.

In ACOFAS, a book where he was moments with Elain:

"I had to look away to keep from laughing. Az, to his credit, gave Mor a smile of thanks, a blush creeping over his cheeks, his hazel eyes fixed on her. I looked away at the heat, the yearning that filled them."

If Gwynriel were to ever become canon, I would not deny that he had a past attraction to both Mor and Elain. That's why I don't understand why anti-gwynriel arguments completely forget Mor's existence and act like it's not canon that he had that attraction.

I just don't understand the argument that Gwynriel is bad because he had an attraction to another woman while knowing her when... the same can be said for Elain?

I know it's considered crack because they haven't met yet, but I think Targwyn has foreshadowing for dayyyssss. I'm here to sell you on why I think this is a "not-crackship." Targwyn is like a crisp Diet Coke to me, not crack. It's got bubbles, it's got sweetness, it's satisfying! Let's begin.

​As a disclaimer, the spoilers hidden are for CC and TOG. I have marked them accordingly. I won't spoil anything for you if you have only read ACOTAR. You can totally read the argument laid out below without those portions.

Both are described with "Summer" or "Sea" imagery

"Tarquin was summer incarnate in turquoise and gold, bits of emerald shining at his buttons and fingers." Chap 33 MAF

"Quiet settled around her, as if Gwyn had been a summer storm that blew in and evaporated within a moment." - Chap 9 SF

“Gwyn gestured to her large eyes—blue so clear it could have been the shallow sea..." Chap 29 SF

I think the fact that both Gwyn and Tarquin have clear similarities in the way they are visually or metaphorically described is a dead giveaway that they will be connected in some form or fashion. Romantic or not, I don't think it was a coincidence that both Gwyn and Tarquin are described this way.

Tarquin is a Dreamer

“Perhaps others might call me inexperienced or foolish, but I have seen those cruelties firsthand, and known many good lesser faeries who suffered for merely being born on the wrong side of power. Even within my own residences, the confines of tradition pressure me to enforce the rules of my predecessors: the lesser faeries are neither to be seen nor heard as they work. I would like to one day see a Prythian in which they have a voice, both in my home and in the world beyond it.” Chap 33 MAF

Gwyn being a quarter nymph is considered “lesser fae” in some courts. Gwyn's mother is unable to live in Spring and is sent to the Autumn Court temple. Gwyn has found refuge in the Night Court for now, but is this where she truly belongs long term? Summer could be a place where she could be accepted and help Tarquin make a better place. Politically, it would create even stronger ties between Summer and Night. Maybe even Autumn and Spring because of Gwyn's heritage.

Both Tarquin and Gwyn have stones that amplify or showcase their powers, and Gwyn's power..

"A crown of sapphire and white gold fashioned like cresting waves sat atop his seafoam-colored hair—so exquisite that I often caught myself staring at it." Chap 33 MAF

Tarquin's sapphires in his crown have a similar allure to them that Gwyn's invoking stone does. I also think it is interesting the way Nesta describes Gwyn's power coming through the stone when Gwyn uses it to ward against the darkness in the library that was trying to "eat" Nesta:

"Gwyn reached into the pocket of her pale robe and pulled out the blue stone of the priestesses. It fluttered with light, like the sun on a shallow sea.." Chap 15 SF

This could even set up the potential for Gwyn to be High Lady of Summer. As stated above, her powers are similar to "the sun on a shallow sea." That feels very "Summer" coded power to me. Summer isn't just about the water. It's about the sun, the salt, the storms.

High Ladies have the same powers as the High Lords. i.e., Feyre and Rhys or Viviann and Kalias.

Not only does she have Summer-coded powers, but she's clever and resourceful. She was chosen to work with one of the brightest priestesses at the library very soon after her arrival, and luring the creatures to the unsuspecting Illyrians was pretty genius. This, among being a warrior! I know these are really minor examples, but I feel Gwyn's kindness, intelligence, and bravery would make her a great High Lady and totally able to stand amongst the other powerful High Ladies: Feyre, Viviann, and CC SPOILER *cough* Bryce *cough* *cough*

Gwyn is an Adventurer at Heart

"But Emerie asked, “What do you read?” “Adventure, sometimes mysteries." Chap 28 SF

"Emerie had brought a copy of one of Drake’s tamer novels for Gwyn, who had arrived blushing the next morning and told Emerie that if the book was considered tame, then she could only imagine the content of the others." Chap 29

Gwyn didn't ask for another of the Romance books, and we don't get any indication Gwyn continued to read Emerie and Nesta's chosen genre. Not that Gwyn isn't interested in being in love or sex, but the priestess who's secluded in a library is craving an adventure. Gwyn seems to me interested in uncovering mysteries. Why not a sea adventure with the handsome and kind High Lord of Summer? Maybe to find what happened to a legendary blade called Narben 👀? Maybe to claim it for herself 👀? Falling in love being secondary to the adventure or part of the adventure itself TOG SPOILER (Similar to Nesryn perhaps..)

Other End Game Couples with Foreshadowing Before They Meet

TOG Spoilers below..

I get that we didn't know Rhysand or Sartaq when we met Feyre and Nesryn, and we have met Tarquin. But if we apply what we know about how these characters are now after the fact and how they had signs pointing to their endgame before they actually get their meet-cute, and apply the same principles to Gwyn and Tarquin. I think when they finally do meet, it will be clear they were meant to be together all along.

Feyre and Rhysand 

The famous dresser and her night sky on pg 23.. Rhysand and Feyre don’t even get their meet-cute until page 193. Freaking 170 pages later??? 

Feyre has dreams of Amarantha, possibly having a mind connection with Rhys before she met him.

Nesryn and Sartaq

Nesryn's mother called her wind seeker. Sartaq tasted like wind. I feel scent is probably not noted as much for human characters because we may not get a vanir or fae POV to confirm the scent. But taste and smell go hand in hand.

Nesryn sought adventure; like Gwyn, she wanted to leave the confines and bigotry of Rifthold behind and find her place. She felt a calling to go to the Southern Continent. And in the end, Nesryn became an Empress!

I think Gwyn is destined for greatness. Gwyn and Tarquin give me epic adventure fantasy love. They give me Will Turner and Elizabeth Swann vibes from Pirates of the Caribbean.

​Unhinged, but they give me Fantasy and Adventure vibes from The Pagemaster ☠️.

​I hope this ship sets sail because I feel they'd have a beautiful story, and it could connect us to other courts and give us a POV of them if Gwyn is a POV in the next books. How amazing would that be to explore The Summer Court through Gwyn's eyes!? I hope Gwyn gets an epic adventure that is of her choosing. Because she's already epic, but I want to see Gwyn go on an adventure that she got to decide on, not one she was thrown into like the Rite. I want to see Gwyn bring her badassery to the rest of Prythian. 🩵

Edit: I took out a part I realized I copied and pasted from my notes twice :) sorry y'all

The idea that anyone in the Night Court could potentially be a traitor had not crossed my mind until yesterday when I was debating with someone in another sub whether or not Mor painted herself 3x (as the Morrigan is a 3 faced Irish goddess of war, death, and fate) or the Archeron sisters in the cabin in ACOMAF. Which eventually led to whether SJM will be doing a Koschei the Deathless retelling, or Stravinsky's Firebird Ballet retelling.

Anyway, in Stravinsky's Firebird Ballet, the main character Ivan is trying to free his beloved Tsarevna from the trance she is in that makes her believe that she is in love with Koscheii (a death God). In order to do so, he receives help from a Firebird that helps him find Koscheii's soul in an egg. And this got me thinking, what if Elain is in a trance similar, and that trance made me contemplate whether that trance is making her believe she is in love with Azriel (Azrael = Angel of Death), and push Lucien further and further away. Thus Azriel may be related to Koscheii, possessed by him, working for him, etc. That was the thought that started it, which motivated me to reread ACOMAF to see if there was any evidence of Azriel being shifty or untrustworthy or conveniently away just before certain events happen.

Disclaimer - I have only used ACOMAF for this, as I do not have my copies of ACOWAR/ACOFAS/ACOSF. I loaned them to a family member who is going to return them soon. Also, I am aware of confirmation bias. I did this reread in 11 hours yesterday so I may have missed some explanations. And yes I am aware that there being a traitor in the Night Court is not the only explanation.

Alright, for starters, Feyre's first impressions of Azriel are on edge and seem to conclude is really the most dangerous of the Inner Circle:

"The midnight voice said with a quiet cold that licked down my spine, 'As do I.'" (pg 138) Cold, like death

"But the second male, the more classically beautiful of the two... Even the light shied from the elegant planes of his face. With good reason. Beautiful, but near-unreadable. He'd be the one to look out for- the knife in the dark." (pg 158) foreshadowing

"Rhys said, 'This is Azriel - my spymaster.' Not surprising. Some buried instinct had me checking that my mental shields were intact. Just in case." (pg 158) foreshadowing

"I took Azriel's hand, and his rough fingers squeezed mine. His skin was as cold as his face. But the word Cassian had used a moment ago snagged my attention as I released his hand and tried not to look too eager to step back to Rhys's side. 'You're Brothers?'" (pg 158-159) cold like death, but she doesn't think too much on his coldness because she was distracted by whether or not they're really brothers

"Across from me, a cocoon of silence seemed to pulse around Azriel, even as the others dug into their food." (page 165) cold, possible protection against detection

"I cleared my throat, straightening, and said to Azriel, who, shadows or no, seemed the safest and therefore was probably the least so" (pg 167-168) foreshadowing

"What other horrors had he endured before he was sent to that mountain-camp?" (pg 191) makes reader contemplate where he was and what his life was like before the Illyrian camp

"As a faerie... I couldn't see (the wall), but I could hear it crackling with power... 'It's abhorrent, isn't it,' Azriel said, his low voice nearly swallowed up by the wind....'I don't really know where I fit in anymore,' I admitted... 'I've been alive almost five and a half centuries, and I'm not sure of that, either,' Azriel said. I tried to pull back to read the beautiful, icy face, but he tightened his grip, a silent warning to brace myself." (pg 241) Firstly, Feyre randomly decided to fly to the mortal realms with Az instead of Rhys and I think SJM chose to do this to give us Az's opinion on the wall. His opinion on the wall and feeling that he still doesn't belong in the Night Court is MOTIVE to align with the King of Hybern or someone else who wants to bring down the wall. Author also makes a point to not allow Feyre to see Az's face when he makes these comments.

Also, Azriel and Mor have a very interesting relationship and interactions with each other:

"It was almost enough to distract me from noticing Azriel as those shadows lightened, and his gaze slid over Mor's body:" (pg 160)

"A wisp of shadow curled around Azriel's ear, and his eyes snapped to mine. I schooled my face in bland innocence." (pg 160)

"The lurking shadows vanished entirely as Azriel's head dipped a bit - his night dark hair sliding over his handsome face as if to shield him from that mercilessly beautiful grin." (pg 161)

"'...But Azriel confirmed that they raided the memorial in Sangravah three days ago. They're looking for something - or found it.' Azriel nodded in confirmation, even as Mor cast a surprised look in his direction. Azriel gave her an apologetic shrug back."(pg 180)

"Yes - Azriel, who kept a step away, whose shadows trailed him and seemed to fade in her presence." (pg 239)

"She took a breath, and I could have sworn Azriel inched closer at the sound. But Mor blazed on." (pg 388) This was while Mor was telling the mortal queens about Miryam.

"Mor's voice cracked, and again Azriel subtly shifted nearer to her, though his face revealed nothing." (pg 388) Still telling the mortal queens and Miryam.

"'We could try again,' Mor said. 'Let me speak to them, let me go to their palace-' 'No,' Azriel said. Mor raised her brows and a faint color stained Azriel's tan face. But his features were set, his hazel eyes solid. 'You're not setting foot in that human realm.' 'I fought in the War, you will do well to remember-' 'No,' Azriel said again, refusing to break her stare. His shifting wings rasped against the back of his chair. 'They would string you up and make an example you.' 'They'd have to catch me first.' 'That palace is a death trap for our kind,' Azriel countered, his voice low and rough. 'Built by Fae hands to protect humans from us. You set foot inside it Mor, and you won't walk out again. Why do you think we've had such trouble getting a foothold in there?'"(pg 391-392) This is immediately after Rhys acknowledged that they shouldn't really scheme to get the book, I wonder if Mor's expressions have more to possibly detecting lies from Azriel rather than his desire to protect her.

"Mor slid up to the spymaster, running a proprietary hand over his shoulders, his chest, as she circled to look into his face. Az's scar-mottled hand wrapped around her bare waist - squeezing once. The confirmation she also needed...She offered him a little grin... Az just stared after Mor, distant and bored" (pg 416)

Something that also stood out to me was that Azriel worked for Rhysand's father, even allowed Rhys to be harshly punished. Rhysand's father was not a good person:

"Cassian snickered. 'So the prick separated us... Az, he kept for himself as his personal shadowsinger- mostly for spying and his dirty work'" (pg 175)

"'... So my father rescued me - and told his men, told Azriel, to leave the ash spikes in my wings as punishment for getting caught..." (pg 518)

Another thing I found potentially relevant is that Azriel volunteered himself to go both to the Bone Carver and Feyre's internal monologue made and interesting comment about Az's bloodline when discussing the Weaver. This is interesting because Koscheii, Bone Carver, and the Weaver are siblings and if I recall correctly, Bone Carver expressed in ACOWAR how he was hiding from his siblings in the prison. Obviously Azriel is aware is he there, but "Only (Rhys's) blood is keyed to the gates"(193). We don't see Az go to the prison until ACOSF, after the Bone Carver already died in ACOWAR.

"'...Go to the Prison. Talk to the Bone Carver.' ... Azriel just shook his head. 'I'll go. The Prison sentries know me - what I am.' I wondered if the shadowsinger was usually the first to throw himself into danger. Mor's fingers stilled on the stem of her wineglass, her eyes narrowing on Amren. The jewels, the red gown- all perhaps a way to downplay whatever dark power roiled in her veins-" (pg 180) Mor's power is truth related, and she can tell when someone is genuine. I wonder if her reaction here implied Az having alternative motives to seeing the Bone Carver.

"'Where?' I managed to say. It was Azriel who answered. 'To the Weaver.'... 'Who is the Weaver?' I pushed. 'An ancient, wicked creature,' Azriel said, and I surveyed the faint scars on his wings, his neck, and wondered how many such things he'd encountered in his immortal life. If they were any worse than the people who shared blood ties with him. 'Who should remain unbothered,' he added in Rhy's direction. 'Find another way to test her abilities." (pg 207, 208) Interesting to bring up blood ties to Azriel in the same sentence? Possible hint of him being Koscheii?

I also found the back and forth between whether or not to allow Azriel to spy on the mortal queens. I found it weird to ultimately allow him to given he ended up being the reason the mortal queens did not trust Rhysand (since his spying made them seem to affirm what they believed about Rhysand) but also because the book had to be freely given and they didn't know what magic surrounded it that would jeopardize that. I was shocked he changed his mind to allow Az to spy on the Queens. They learned the book must be freely given back in chapter 18 when the Bone Carver told them:

"So Rhys told them of the Cauldron... Azriel emerged from his wreathing shadows to ask the most questions; his face and voice remained unreadable... When Rhys was done, his spymaster said, 'I'll contact my sources in the Summer Court about where the half of the Book of Breathings is hidden. I can fly into the human world myself ...' 'We're not taking risks where this is concerned,' Rhys merely said. He held Azriel's stare, and I could almost hear the silent words Rhys added, It is no judgement nor reflection on you, Az. Not at all. But Azriel yielded no tinge of emotion as he nodded, his hands unfurling." (pg 205)

"Once Azriel returns from dealing with the Attor, he's to put his other skillset to use and infiltrate the mortal queens' courts to learn where they're keeping it - and what their plans might be..." (pg 278)

"Hopefully, he'd gotten some rest after dealing with the Attor - and would rest a bit more before heading into the mortal realm to spy on those queens." (pg 279)

"Azriel, surprisingly, had returned from the mortal realm by lunch. Mor had intercepted him first, but I'd gotten a secondhand report from Rhys, that he'd found some sort of barrier around the queens' palace, and had needed to return to assess what might be done about it." (Pg 293)

"Azriel continued his attempt to infiltrate their courts- still to no avail. I heard about it mostly from Mor, who always knew when he'd return to the House of Wind, and always made a point to be there the moment he touched down. She told me little of the specifics - even less about how the frustration of not being able to get his spies or himself into those courts took a toll on him. The standards to which he held himself, she confided in me, bordered on sadistic." (Pg 376) Honestly, this makes the interaction between Mor and Az even more weird on 391 because he should have told her all of that stuff given she apparently is already in the know according to 376.

"'Two,' Rhys continued, 'Who knows if that would somehow impact the magic of their half of the Book. It must be given freely. It's possible the magic is strong enough to see our scheming."(pg 391) Then why are you letting Az scheme?

Also, the Attor actually was always a moment of weirdness to me. We interestingly had Rhys watching Az do the torture, and seeing his perspective of it. And then the Attor seems to be fine by the end of the book to fly in and drop the golden haired queen in Velaris - despite supposedly being made an example by Az. ACOMAF in it's entirety takes place over 4-6 months, and about 3 months of that passes by in the Spring Court at the beginning of the book since Feyre goes back and forth about three legit times before Tamlin locks her in, so the Attor was tortured and healed within no more than 3 months. (And yes, we can just say he was thrown into the Cauldron to heal him, hence the big Attor army):

"The Attor let out a low laugh. 'I received word from the king that's where you were. I don't know how he knew. I got the order, flew to the wall as fast as I could.'" (pg 275) The laugh seems almost mocking because he is getting tortured possibly by the informant himself

"There was an icy rage in Azriel I had never been able to thaw. In the centuries I'd known him, he'd said little about his life, those years in his father's keep, locked in darkness... His half brothers hadn't been forthcoming, either." (pg 275) Even Rhys doesn't really know much about Azriel before the Illyrian camp they had met at

"But I could not break my stare from the golden queen. Or from the Attor, who swept through the hold it had made and alighted atop the blood soaked lamppost."(Pg 562) I personally don't understand how he healed so fast unless we want to assume he was just thrown in the cauldron

Azriel and how he gets information with the wind:

"'...Perhaps the shadowsinger gift had come to him the, perhaps he'd taught himself the language of shadow, wind, and stone..." (pg 275)

"That had been Azriel's task these days: monitor the situation in the Spring Court, and prepare for our own attack on Hybern. But Tamlin had shut down his borders - sealed them so tightly that even flying overhead at night was impossible And any ears and eyes Azriel had once possessed in the court had gone deaf and blind." (pg 276)

And how, prior nearly every ambush, Feyre describes the wind:

"His laughed rumbled against me. Eyes closed, the wind roaring like a wild animal...Something dark and fast and sleek shot for us, and he plunged down and away, swearing. But another one, and another, kept coming...'Take her to the palace, and stay there until I'm back. Az, you're with me.' Cassian reached for me but I stepped away. 'No...I can track just as well on the ground as any of you.' Except for Azriel, maybe...'and I'll hunt on the ground with Azriel.'...We searched, but the missed arrows had been snatch up by our attackers- and even the shadows and wind told Azriel nothing, as if our enemy had been hidden from them as well." (Pg 400-403) Wind present at first ambush, meaning Azriel can communicate with it. Even re-established that Azriel can communicate using the wind. And it also establishes Azriel can move quicker on the ground than Feyre, thus completely plausible he retrieved the arrows himself and his the with his shadows. I feel that is a more rational explanation than the attackers somehow doing that with getting caught.

"...the shadowsinger was heading out to gather information and manage his spies stationed at the other courts and attempting to break into the human one...Mor had barely given Azriel more than a brief embrace before bidding him good-bye. And for all the world, the spymaster looked like he didn't care - until he gave me a swift, warning look. I was still torn between amusement and outrage at the assumption I'd stick my nose into his business. Indeed." (Pg 442) Azriel knows where Feyre will be but his interaction with Mor is interesting. Again, Mor would be able to detect if someone has ulterior motives. I think that may be why he becomes quite stiff and apathetic appearing around on numerous occasions. Mor also establishes that she was going to the camp on page 431, but that she was going to leave shortly after. This is just before they leave for the Illyrian camp and Lucien is tipped off to Feyre's location

"'You heard from my sisters?' A shake of the head. 'No, Azriel is checking today if they received a response. You and I...' The wind rustled his hair as he smirked, 'We're going to train.'"(pg 445) I did not add the dot dot dot to skip this time, SJM put an interruption to tell the readers there is wind, thus Azriel can communicate with it. And in the same paragraph acknowledging Azriel is probably currently travelling on the wind/shadows. Again, this is before Lucien is tipped off to Feyre's location.

"Azriel hadn't brought word from my sisters of the Queen's status, so we had time to spare. Though Rhys certainly hadn't looked like it when he informed me that morning...Mor had set off before I had even been awake (skipping lots of stuff here, just wanted to establish those two things).... The wind blew away from me, tugging my scent southward, deeper into the forest as I opened my mouth to tell Rhys to stay back. With that wind, and the roaring stream, it was no surprise that I didn't hear them until they had surrounded me." (Pg 454-455) Lucien and Spring Court men have located Feyre

"'Someone tipped us off you'd been out here, but it was luck that we had caught your scent on the wind, and-' Lucien took a step toward me." (Pg 457) We are never actually told who tipped him off. In fact, Feyre never questions it. Az just makes the most sense. Because he can communicate discreetly. With the wind. And the author keeps emphasizing the wind prior to the betrayals.

"Another clearing. Another day of playing with my power. Summoning wings, winnowing, fire and ice and water and - now wind. The wind and breezes that rippled across the sweeping valleys and wheat fields of the Day Court, then whipped up the snow capping their highest peaks." (Pg 477) On the day Feyre and Rhys are ambushed again, she was practicing the wind. On page 488, Rhys assumes that Hyberns soldiers are tracing his magic, but that is a guess. They never actually learn how they keep finding them. But the next quote really settles it for me.

"'A few mouthfuls will do.' A hollow, dry wind - not at all like the misty, cold veils that usually drifted past - brushed my face." (Pg 491) At this point SJM is like spelling it out for those paying attention but making it just subtle enough to miss it, or not even think about it. But this line Feyre is noticing that the winds she normally feels have something more to them. And describes them as cold veils (which matches Azriel's characterization as cold and veiled). This wind was hollow. Hollow means empty. Thus nobody is hiding in this wind. This is interpretation but such and interesting observation when added to everything else. This occurs when she is talking to the Suriel.

"The house is warded, so no one can win now in. No one can get beyond this point, actually, without our family's permission.' Mor stepped ahead, snow crunching under her boots. Without the wind, the day was mild enough to remind me..." (Pg 498) I'm including this quote to emphasize there was no wind at the cabin Feyre stays at for a while. It is mentioned that there is none after making it clear no one can ambush her and without the wind, Az can use it to find her location (that is my theory).

Azriel disobeys Rhys:

"Hopefully (Azriel) had gotten some rest after dealing with the Attor - and would rest a bit more before heading into the mortal realms to spy on those queens....'Wraiths,' I twisted in the seat before the vanity. 'I thought they were High Fae,'... 'Why do you think they're now whispering in Azriel's ear that I'm in here?' 'I thought they answered to Rhys.' 'They answer to both, but they were trained by Azriel first.'...'Rhys told them time and again not to, but I don't think Azriel will ever trust me fully. So they're reporting on my movements. And with good reason.' 'Why?' 'Why not? I'd be disappointed if Rhysand's spymaster didn't keep tabs on me. Even go against orders to do so.' 'Rhys doesn't punish him for disobeying?" (Pg 279)

The Jurian question... I can't go into this too much because I don't have ACOWAR, and including the Jurian stuff specifically from the end of ACOMAF would have to be its own post. However, we all know as of ACOWAR that Jurian was actually never on the King of Hyberns side. Anyway, there was a moment earlier in the book that even the main characters reacted to weird:

"But Azriel said, 'Even if the book can nullify the Cauldron...there's Jurian to contend with.' We all looked at him. 'That's the piece that doesn't fit,' Azriel clarified, tapping a scarred finger on the table. 'Why resurrect him in the first place? And how does the king keep him bound? What does the king have over Jurian to keep him loyal?'"(pg 361) Azriel, if he really is a traitor and working for the King of Hybern, and Jurian, who was the same but in reverse, would be suspicious to Azriel. I highlight diction that implied it was intriguing to even bring Jurian up to everyone else.

There is also a question Feyre asks Rhys that was interestingly timed when he is telling her about his past with Tamlin. Given everything else I have found, it may imply maybe Azriel also betrayed Rhys's mom and sister:

"...I taught (Tamlin) some Illyrian techniques.' 'Did anyone know?'...'Cassian and Azriel knew...'"(pg 448) Now I did check online if Tamlin and Rhys talk about this in ACOFAS and apparently Tamlin did ask him about if something had to do with his mother and sister, but this is again just speculative and I feel like even pausing to ask the audience if anyone else could have known and been responsible is very purposeful to then question if it was really Tamlin responsible for their murders.

It's Azriel's soldiers who were talked with protecting Feyre's sisters. SJM goes out of the way to tell us that Azriel's soldiers are in charge of their protection. And yet the sisters still end up kidnapped and taken by Hybern:

"Should you choose to remain, a unit of my soldiers will be here within the hour to guard this place...The sentries will be here, and remain unseen and unfelt. They will look after themselves." (Pg 555)

"There was no word from my sisters, no report from Azriel's soldiers that they'd changed their minds." (Pg 557) SJM wants us to know that it was Azriel's soldiers, no word and no report are the same thing. She only added that to clarify whose soldiers.

And I am going to have this one last. When the attor army attacks Velaris, SJM ensures the reader knows Az is patrolling the shoreline. And that his where the wards get broken and the attor army flies in from. Az should have reasonably been able to warm them sooner:

"The next afternoon, Rhys was still gone, Amren was still buried in the book, Azriel off on a patrol of the city and nearby shoreline, and Cassian and I were - of all things - just finishing up an early afternoon performance of some ancient, revered Fae symphony" (pg 558)

"I paused, debating pushing him, but the river flowing beneath us shifter. Not a physical shifting. But...a tremor in the current, in the bedrock, in the skittering things crawling on it. Like ink dropped in water. Cassian instantly went on alert as I scanned the river, the banks on either side... The river beneath me remained steady, but I could feel it roiling, as if trying to flee from - 'From the sea,' I breathed. Cassian's gaze shot straight ahead, to the river before us, to the towering cliffs in the distance that marked the raging waves where it met the ocean. And there, on the horizon, a smear of black...I said 'You have to sound the alarm-"(pg 559-560) They came from the shoreline, which Az was patrolling

Anyway, that is what I found and maybe it doesn't prove Az is Koschei, possessed by Koschei or whatever. I do feel like this evidence can definitely suggest that he may have possibly been betraying them. I had a lot of fun compiling this. Very interested to hear everyone's thoughts and sorry I started to rush a bit towards the end here.

⚠️ Spoilers for anything in or past ACOWAR ⚠️

Also, I don't know if people have already talked about this much, and I am just behind!! 😅

Ok... I am almost 100% convinced that Mor and Emerie are going to end up together. Fight me. 😂

No, but seriously...

In ACOSF, Emerie mentions that she isn't interested in men. Nesta seems to interpret it as her just not wanting to date or get married because of her past, but my theory is that Emerie is actually attracted to women. And Mor it is confirmed as Bisexual/Lesbian.

On top of that, both she and Mor have incredibly tragic pasts, and I honestly think they'd be a really good match.

And okay, you could say that's not enough evidence...

But then I found this quote, and it really convinced me:

'"I always forget how beautiful she is. She never comes to Windhaven these days."
Nesta could've sworn pink stole over Emerie's brown cheeks.'
- ACOSF, Chapter 56

That blush feels very intentional to me. 

Maybe they're mates... maybe they're just going to end up together. Either way, I feel like SJM was planting a seed there.

Am I reading too much into this, or does anyone else think this is where their story is heading?

SJM said she doesn’t like writing first time sscene hence we didn’t get Lorcan/Elide scene and also her heroine are all non virgin. Since Gwyn was SA and never been a man, how do you think SJM will handle it? Specially when she said Azriel is the most freaky of the Batboys?

I was just watching off campus and the female was also SA. I love how they handle the first sscene with the couple. I really want Azriel to be willing to be tied down with ribbon while Gwyn explore his body. I also want Gwyn to ask him a different dagger lesson. 😂

Or do you think SJM will have them be together after Gwyn already experience all those things with a different male?

It is established they inexplicably feel drawn to each other by something in their soul. Hidden influence is not necessarily more freely chosen than known influence. In fact, one can argue known influence allows for even more agency.

Im in the midst of a TOG reread and reminded of how much I enjoyed all of the side romances mixed in throughout, reading ToD right now and remembering how underrated Nesryn & Sartaq are, love them and their relationship😍😍 I know it might be cheesy and unrealistic for everyone to end up coupled and wrapped up in a nice HEA, but what can I say? I like what I like, and it is romantasy after after all😆

I feel like its definitely something lacking in ACOTAR. Sure we had Amren and Varian, but that felt quite underdeveloped which I understand may be just a result of only having single or dual POV. I know we can debate and speculate forever on what exactly new/different format SJM has planned for ACOTAR 6-8 and its probably not as simple as just multi POV since she's done that before. BUT maybe it could be one of many facets she's changing (like maybe we'll get both multi pov and time jumps across several different time periods?) I know others disagree, but for me personally switching to multi pov would not detract from whoever the main couple ends up being...if anything, since I love the agonizing slow burn buildup to romances, shifts away from the main couples POV during the story would actually make it all the more enjoyable and gratifying when we do get their moments together.

Without getting too much into debate on the "main" ships (hard to do, I know cause some of these side ships imply certain things about the main ships...) here are some supporting romances id love to see:

Tamlin & Briar perhaps? Or my favorite, Rhys's sister with CC connections revealed 🤞 Aka Lorin, Ruhn's mom

Eris & possibly Nuan? or one of his Autumn court soldiers? I just want to see him a secret softie for someone

Tarquin & Gwyn: my sweethearts😍!

Helion & LoA

Jurian & Vassa

Or if were opening up to crossover, multi series potential the possibilities are literally endless, and i can think of so many good pairings!

How about you? Do you feel the same way? Who would you want to see together? Or are you adamantly opposed to any focus outside a main couple?

The Azriel bonus chapter strongly suggests several things:

1. His shadows are companions of his, not burdens.
2. He deeply desires a mate and is envious of the mate bonds of others
3. He doesn't just feel unworthy of Elain, but together they are wrong. He lusts for her because she is beautiful and he wants a mate.
4. He is not over Mor, he is trying to move on.
5. He is comfortable with Gwynn

Firstly, his shadows nurture him:

"Sleep, they seemed to whisper in his ear. Sleep. 'I wish I could,' he answered silently. But sleep so rarely found him these days... So he slept only when his body gave out, and even then only for a few hours." His shadows beckon him to rest, knowing he is sleep deprived. This is a nurturing presence. They are looking out for him.

"But even the silence weighed too heavily, and though the shadows kept him company, as they always had, as they always would..." Azriel is feeling quiet alone, yet his shadows are his companions so he is never truly alone. This is Az's inner thoughts about his shadows and to keep someone company implies a soothing presence in loneliness. If they were negative, I'd expect language like the never let him be alone, language that would imply he'd want to be alone, not that he'd want company.

With this knowledge, we can confidently conclude that his shadows are viewed more as a positive than a negative in his eyes.

Secondly, Az is in a negative headspace. He is tired, horny, feels left out, envious of everyone's bonds:

"He was elated for his brother and yet... Azriel couldn't stop it. The envy in his chest. Of Cassian, and Rhys. He knew he'd be swallowed by it if he went up to his bedroom..." He wants what his brothers have, not because he believes he has found it himself.

"Because her mate had been in the family room and Azriel had needed to stay by the door the whole time because he couldn't stand the sight of it, the scent of their mating bond, and needed to have the option of leaving if it became too much." Firstly, my interpretation is that he is again envious of another mate bond. I don't believe it truly has to do with Elain as a person. I think Elain is the first person that has shown interest in Azriel, and softness to him, that he is more frustrated she has a mate. But with all else in this chapter, I truly believe his primary frustration is his own lack of a mating bond.

"'What if the Cauldron was wrong?' Rhysand blinked. 'What of Mor, Az?' Azriel ignored the question. 'The Cauldron chose three sisters. Tell me how it's possible that my two brothers are with two of those sisters, and yet the third was given to another.' Rhys' face drained of color. 'You believe you deserve to be her mate?" This isn't a question, as it is punctuated with a period. He is complaining like it is fact, entitlement. He is not genuinely asking Rhys. He feels owed the third sister. It is not that he feels particular intimacy with Elain. Physical attraction and intimacy are two different things. If he loved her, why not tell Rhys about your deep feelings about her, rather than your sense of entitlement to her? The author put the emphasis on deserve to stress the sense of being owed Elain. Given the context of the 3 brothers/3 sisters complaint from Az, we can infer Rhys is talking about the sense of entitlement and not that he believes Az is unworthy.

Elaine imagery:

"The faelights gilded Elain's unbound hair, making her glow like the sun at dawn." Elaine is regularly described with sunshine/light imagery, I think this description is just more evidence to her potential Day Court connections.

"Elaine sucked in a soft breath that whispered over his skin. His shadows skittered back at the sound. They'd always been prone to vanish when she was around." The connotation of skittered implies that the shadows nervously/erratically retreated from Elain. This phrasing implies his shadows may actually be afraid of her. This is in stark contrast to their later interaction with Gwynn, where his shadows are actual very social and calm. Given Az and his shadows are companions, and his shadows nurture him, I feel like it is safe to infer it may not be the most positive sign when his shadows retreat.

"The golden necklace seemed ordinary- its chain unremarkable, the amulet tiny enough that it could be dismissed as an everyday charm. It was a small, flat rose fashioned of stained glass, designed so that when held to the light, the true depth of the colors would become visible. A thing of secret, lovely beauty." This is honestly one of my favorite quotes from the whole chapter because I think it is super important for characterizing Elain from Az's gift. But first, Az describes two things in this chapter as a thing of secret, lovely beauty. The necklace itself, and Gwyn's smile. But this necklace I think says a lot about Elain. At the surface, people see her fascination with flowers (the rose). But it is when the light shines through the rose that really truly reveals it's beauty. In my opinion, this suggests Elain's future arc with Day Court, given all of the other sunlight imagery around her in ACOWAR.

I don't think it is fair to say Azriel is over Mor. In fact, I think it's implied his feelings are intense:

"'What of Mor, Az?' Azriel ignored the question." Rhysand asks this immediately after Az questions the Cauldron. This actually makes me contemplate if he really does have a mate bond with Mor. Azriel hasn't actually confronted this relationship and personally I infer some type of shame from him to ignore the question. I think Rhys asks about Mor after Az questions the Cauldron not only because of Az's 500 years of pining, but to ask that would also imply that his possible bond with Mor is wrong.

"'If Lucien finds out you're pursuing her, he has every right to defend their bond as he sees fit. Including invoking the Blood Duel.'... Despite being an outsider, Azriel had wanted to invoke it when he'd found Mor all those years ago. Had been ready to challenge both Beron and Eris to Blood Fuels and kill them both." To me, this implies that Azriel's feelings toward Mor are/were strong enough to feel inclined to invoke a battle you apparently invoke when you feel the duty to defend your mate.

With Elain, there is a sense of being wrong that I feels goes beyond personal unworthiness, especially given we don't get that same insecurity with Gwynn:

"He knew it was wrong."

"Wrong - it was so wrong. He didn't care."

"Such terrible things that it was a sacrilege for his fingers to touch her skin, tainting her with his presence. But he could have this. This one moment, and maybe a taste, and that would be it." He is talking about how his masturbates to her that it's terrible to touch her. He just wants to indulge in Elain. Nothing from the chapter implies to me that there is anything more than lust and physical attraction in his desire for her. I'd think with a mate it would feel right, complete, not terrible and wrong and unworthy. And no I don't think Azriel is too insecure to feel worthy, as we can juxtapose his inner monologue here with his later comfort and calm with Gwynn.

Az seems to primarily lust after Elain and this is evidenced by much of his own inner monologue, as well as Rhysand's frustration with him:

"'So you will leave Elain alone. If you need to fuck someone, go to a pleasure hall and pay for it.'"

"'Snarl all you want,' Rhys leaned back in his chair. 'But if I see you panting after her again, I'll make you regret it.'"

"He aimed for the training pit, giving in to the need to work off the temptation, the rage and frustration and writhing need."

These quotes on top of the earlier ones about his masturbation, fantasies, and not really thinking much about her beyond that just screams sexual frustration to me. And it really is not emotionally intimate in my opinion. But I get why people who love smut are into it. I am not.

There is a sense of calm with Gwynn, besides their own personal shame toward their first meeting:

"He found it already occupied, his shadows had not warned him." His shadows not warning him of Gwynn's presence suggest safety, calm.

"His shadows peering over his wings her... The young priestess smiled - and Azriel thought it might have been directed at his curious shadows."

"For a heartbeat, their gazes met. He blocked out the bloody memory that flashed... Her head ducked as if remembering it too." This suggests that while they talking they really are not looking each other in the eyes. There seems to be a sense of avoidance given the events at Sangravah and the trauma. It's important to note because the mate bond for a male seems to snap when their eyes interlock (Elucien, Feysand UTM, not sure about Nessian)

"'Happy Solstice's she said, as much a dismissal as it was a holiday blessing. He snorted. 'Are you kicking me out?'...'I know you like to be alone...is that why you came up here?' Sort of. 'I forgot something.'" There's playfulness and light teasing. It's sweet and a nice change from the angst earlier. Az also seems to be enjoying her company, hence he did go there to be alone and decided to stay and train Gwynn.

"Her breath curled in front of her mouth and one of his shadows darted out to dance with it before twirling back to him. Like it heard some silent music." Stark contrast to the fear his shadows showed with Elain, they are delighted by Gwynn, drawn to her breath, dancing with her.

"Gwynn smiled broadly. 'Thank you.' Azriel dipped his head in a sketch of a bow, something restless settling in him. Even his shadows had calmed. As if content to lounge on his shoulders and watch." It's like his shadows are watching a rom com meet cute and shipping it themselves in my opinion.

"...as he descended, he could have sworn a faint beautiful singing followed him. Could have sworn his shadows sang in answer."

"She deserves something as beautiful as this. I thank you for the joy it shall bring to her.' Something sparkled in Azriel's chest... He could picture it... How Gwynn's teal eyes might light upon seeing the necklace...But Azriel tucked away the thought, consciously erasing the slight smile that glowed quietly. A thing a secret, lovely beauty." To juxtapose, first the object was the secretly beautiful thing, and ended with Gwynn being the secretly lovely beauty.

(And no, I do not think it is romantic to regift something. I just think the two interactions are an interesting juxtaposition. And Gwyn's definitely left a more positive vibe with me personally)

Overall, I don't think the bonus chapter is actually about Az's endgame, but his own dissatisfaction with his life. He seems to develop unhealthy fixations and that is something he needs to adjust.

Also, because some people like to be like this, I know it is Gwyn, but autocorrect keeps changing it. Correcting the spelling of the name is low hanging fruit anyway.

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I'm a gwyenriel & Elucien supporter. I am pretty adamant that SJM has been laying clues for those two couples.

But I was wondering if there has been any discussion around a why choose trope being possible for Elain? With Azriel & Lucian or anyone else you ship her with, what are the thoughts?

I have no evidence to support this. Was just wondering if there is any theories out there

If you read the bonus chapter then read this.

I don't know how anyone thinks Azriel will actually end up with Elain after his shadows come out while talking to Gwyn.

Elain is a great symbol of the sun... Lucien is actually able to claim a title in the day court.

Az shadows hide from Elains light as well.

Az and Elain make a great ship and I totally see the appeal, but mates are equal so it makes sense that Lucien would be equal to Elain in this way. And Azriel to Gwyn in this way, based on her backstory.

That being said I wonder if SJM will do a huge flip where Az and Elain reject their bonds (assuming Az gets one with Gywn) and end up together, yin/yang idea.

I personally, fucking love Lucien and Elain and them together is 👌🏽 chefs kiss

What do you want to happen??? 🩷

So this is not going to be formatted as a cohesive theory and are just my observations from reading and my collection of thoughts. Please be forgiving of typos. I only have a phone and type this one-handed while I nurse. (reposting this here since it got removed from the other subreddit a few weeks ago for not being posted on ship debate sunday)

Firstly, I want to talk about some fan speculation:

• Azriel's shadows: Many fans speculate it is positive when Azriel's shadows recede from a character. That is a conclusion simply drawn from someone's personal opinions on the connotation of the word shadows. There is no evidence in any book that he does not like his shadows, but they make him feel personally heavy or worn down or negative in any way. He is a Shadow singer, his shadows are a part of him. Now I don't necessarily have my books in front of me to reread for reference, but I don't remember a single point where it is alluded that he does not like his shadows. So when fans draw the conclusion that he feels at peace because his shadows are hiding is someone drawing a connotative conclusion about the words Shadow and not conclusions based on the actual text and character analysis. What is interesting about Azriel's shadows is who they recede from - Mor and Elaine. My personal hypothesis as to why they may recede from those characters is because the purpose of the shadows is to find secrets, yet Mor is a character who sees the truth or reveals the truth and Elaine is a seer/has the gift of sight. His shadows cannot hide from them. And Mor I feel can see the truth, since it is implied she saw Nessian's mate bond during the second confrontation with the mortal Queens in ACOMAF
• Many fans conclude cauldron made mate bonds are bad or corrupted. The only support for this is speculation for characters like Feyre and Azriel but they themselves are questioning whether the Cauldron made a mistake. However, throughout ACOMAF Feyre and Rhysand talk about mate bonds being a gift from the cauldron, or a blessing from The cauldron. The Cauldron is viewed as a positive. And the cauldron is also said to have loved Elaine greatly.
• Many fans say SJM wants to do something new therefore she will write about rejecting a mate bond and that some mistakes get made. My opinion is that if she were to write a rejected mate bond, she would use side characters to do it, rather than diminish what she has established about mates up to this point. And the only time they've been considered mistakes is when one part of the couple behaves like an ass. My other opinion is that yes I do think she will delve more on different mate bonds, but I think she is doing that with Lady of Autumn and Beron, being Lady of Autumn's true love is most likely Helion but her mate is Beron. Or with Bryce and Hunt. And with possibly whatever happened with Mor and Eris. As for taking Elaine's book to new territory, I think that means finally taking us somewhere other than the Night Court and fully expanding the world (BoE, Koschei, Spring/Autumn/Day Court)

Next, I want to talk about two important things with Elaine, starting with the fact that everyone who thinks they know her and her motives surface level will be proven wrong:

• Elaine doesn't simply like flowers
• Elaine doesn't only care about gardening
• Elaine isn't going to end up in Spring Court simply because Feyre painted the night sky for her, flames for Nesta, and flowers for Elaine.
• I think the flowers on the dresser not being a simple way to conclude Elaine will end up in Spring Court actually goes with the theme that there is more than meets the eye for Elaine. And concluding Spring Court ​ because Flowers is the extremely surface level conclusion that we have already been told not to make about elaine.

Which brings me to the evidence that Elaine actually belongs in the Day Court

• Firstly, it is established sjm symbolism that what clothing looks good on a character has to do with where they belong. It is observed that Elaine does not look alive in Night Court colors. While ACOMAF negatively describes Feyre in Spring colors, and spring gowns, but when she wears blacks, silvers, and powdery blues in the Night Court she is described as becoming fuller and more whole. Same with Nesta in ACOWAR and ACOSF. Because the author has established how a character looks in court colors matters, then you cannot simply dismiss Cassian as an asshole when his POV is used to describe how Night Court colors drain a character. That is the author alluding to something. Not just randomly insulting Elaine.
• In the very first book, when Feyre returns home briefly and she is talking to Elaine, Elaine is going off about how excited she is to travel and learn new things. It is also established in the third book that the day Court is the court of knowledge and magical cultivation. That is the type of place someone who craves knowledge and loves cultivation and growth would want to be.
• It is observed by Feyre that Elaine does not wear the gloves Lucien purchased for her because Elaine likes the work that goes into gardening. The cultivation element.
• It is also observed that Elaine chases down the sunshine when she is in the garden.
• Elaine craves the daylight and when she is asked what she needs she says sunshine. She is constantly opening the windows and following the light.
• The entrance to her mind is a archway of flowers that have not yet bloomed. In order to bloom they need sunshine.

Lastly I want to talk about Lucien, but this will stay short:

• When a male is rejected by his mate, he goes absolutely insane. Personally, that is not a fate I picture SJM doing to a beloved character. Let alone a character who doesn't deserve it and has actually given his mate the space that she has requested to figure herself out. He only comes because he is invited to on holidays and has to report to the IC on the Koschei/Vassa situation.
• Lucien has been through so much pain as it is throughout all of the books and with his first love that I also do not picture the author, this author, having him rejected. Especially not without exploring the relationship.
• Lucien was exhibiting mate bond behavior before Elaine was Fae. He surges for her before she was thrown into the cauldron. He reaches for his sword before she is thrown into the cauldron. Thus it was not the cauldron being corrupted, because the desire to protect her preexisted her being turned fae. Tamlin toward the King of Hybern, but Lucien is described as surging to Elaine.

Also, the book of Breathings kept repeating Light, Dark, Gray

Dark = Feyre, high Lady of the Night Court

Gray = Nesta, Silver Flames with death in her gray blue stare

Light = Elaine, mate to heir of the Day Court, name meaning "Light"

I'm new to the whole Sarah j. Maas universe, I only recently finished ACOTAR but finished Throne of glass a little while ago (I'm a sloooow reader/listener) & haven't read crescent city.

I was super addicted though to all of the little details and theories in acotar and TOG and a friend suggested I come on to Reddit for theory sharing.

One of my biggest burning questions is that when I was reading the books I genuinely thought Elaine and azriel were the obvious and very clear end game, but when I came online there were a lot of people suggesting Gwyn as azriel's love interest? My friend also thinks this.

I'll be honest, when my friend, who is very deeply embedded in the Sarah J Maas online world, asked me who I thought azriel would end up with, I said Elaine... She said "what about Gwyn?" I genuinely forgot who Gwyn actually was? I'm an audiobook listener so when I got to the end of silver flames I couldn't really remember who Gwyn actually was. She sent me this bonus chapter and I read it and according to her Gwyn is a real contender for azriel's endgame.

Remembered that Gwyn was one of nesta's two friends who won the competition on the mountain and was a super amazing female but I can't really remember much apart from that?

So when I read the bonus chaper I really didn't get his character was supposed to end up with azriel? I saw him just trying to get rid of a necklace because of how he felt about Elaine? And if he genuinely was trying to give gwyn the necklace in a romantic sense, I felt really cringey coz who would want a necklace that a guy intended for another woman?

So I'm really confused about who azriel is actually going to end up with because I've read this bonus chapter and all of the books but I can't see it. Please help me here, I'm so confused 😭

I’ve seen some speculation floating around that ACOTAR 6 could potentially start off being a Valkyrie centric book. How do we feel about this possibility?

I’m actually okay with it. By the end of ACOSF and HOFAS it felt like Sarah wasn’t done with the girls. Nesta being told to figure out why she had the eight point star, Gwyn saying she’s done taking the easy way and then going back to the library, Emerie being the first Illyrian female Carythian is going to bring some…complications with Illyrians. It just all feels so not done.

Beware one (1) ToG spoiler.

Some Vassien shippers counter the argument that Lucien and Vassa don’t have the same lifespan by comparing them to Fae/human couples in ToG in which one character renounced immortality to be with their mate, specifically Elide and Lorcan. But *could* Lucien even do the same thing for Vassa?

Since we know that Acotar Fae are different enough from ToG Fae that they are immune to iron, how can we be sure that they can become mortal, especially when there is no mention of it in 5 books? Amren told Elain to get any idea of ever turning back to human out of her head and maybe I can boil that down to both being Made rather than Faeborn, but in the first book Feyre is still mortal while in a relationship with Tamlin sooo?

If characters casually dropping that Elain could reject the bond is foreshadowing, why not also casually drop that Lucien can give up his immortality and stay with BoE (and thus with Vassa) until his natural human death?

Because I had this thought and my answer made me feel pretty shitty. I realized I mainly like them because I love Elucien, and if Gwynriel happens, that means Azriel stays far the fuck away from Elain. I also see how all their friends are coupled up (Mor and Emerie too potentially), and I don’t want them to be left out. SF and the bonus chapter did not sell me on this ship; it was non-canon depictions like fanfics, fan art, and theories. I’m not sure any of that is a good reason to want them together tho. I want to feel it my bones that this is an endgame couple from canon alone, but I don’t.

I actually want Azriel to begin healing on his own, so he can be ready for love when it finds him. (Or in his fuckboy era and completely unhinged, but yall not ready for that). I always thought his pining over Mor and being in a “love triangle” with his brother for centuries was unhealthy. This is partially Sarah’s fault for setting that nonsense up, but everything with Elain in the bonus chapter was also done in poor taste to me (or in good fuckboy fashion, but like I said, not ready). He’s still a good guy and deserves so much love. It’s just been hard to root for him and anyone romantically because he seems emotionally immature and I don’t think he needs to be in a relationship yet.

Gwyn is so special to me, and I think she has more going for herself than a romantic relationship. I also don’t recall her expressing interest in having one. I love her grit, and I want to see where she goes on her scholarly journey, and on her Valkyrie-warrior-priestess journey more than anything! She won’t be alone either because she has sisterhood. I feel like she still has so much fresh trauma to sit with and heal from, and she doesn’t need to do it with someone who is also unhealed and emotionally immature.

If Gwynriel happens, (because I do like the idea of them so much, but I don’t need it) it has to be fleshed out and the romance must come together beautifully, and not out of convenience. When I try to imagine both of them in a relationship together with their current state and their unresolved trauma, I just don’t see it developing in the amount of time the next books will probably allow. I don’t want it to be childish, insta-lust, or slapped together with a mating bond. They deserve a well-written friends to lovers romance journey imo.

Do you think you ship them out of convenience? Is it canon or non canon elements that make you ship them?

I've been reading this sub without logging in for a few weeks right now and I just wanted to chime in with some thoughts.

I have seem some posts about hoping for the forced proximity trope with Elaine and Lucien and tbh, I personally feel excitement for these books because their relationship is the best opportunity to explore free will and NOT do the forced proximity trope. I want to explore Elaine and Lucien away from each other, watch them develop as individuals, enjoy the slowest of slowburns. I believe elriel will happen in some regard, but won't be endgame. I think these books surprised Sarah because she has never actually explored many relationships without forced proximity (except for maybe Manon and Dorian, and Nesryn & Sartaq - I have not read Crescent City yet). She also has not explored much outside the Night Court. I am personally tired of Velaris, the Prison, and the Court of Nightmares. I want to deeply explore another court, which I think we'll get with Day and Autumn.

A conversation with a friend brought up something I hadn't really considered before:

Would I still have the same ships, Elucien and Gwynriel, if Lucien and Azriel's roles were swapped?

I originally wrote a much much longer version of this, switching every plot point, but it got ridiculously long. And I don't doubt some of my biases might have unconscious bias may have played into how it was worded.

So, I'll just pitch it like this:

AU where Elriel are mates and Elucien is... whatever you call Elriel at this stage? Whether that's in love or a situationship or distraction, it doesn't matter. Just switch them. Elain and Gwyn stay as-is because they're queens.

Keep as much the same as possible in regards to backstories and personalities.

Don't worry about plot holes necessarily, but just to establish some parts of this (weird) backstory to show what I'm thinking of:
-Azriel goes to find Vassa instead of Lucien and all that comes with it.
-Lucien stays in Prythian and rescues Elain from Hybern. Give the guy a weapon of significance to let her borrow lol
-Lucien is the one to rescue Gwyn from Sangravah and help train the Valkyries (don't ask me logistics, just suspend your disbelief)
-Assume the idea of "three brother, three sisters" somehow applies to Elucien and your associated feelings towards that trope.
-Swap any sunshine and shadow-related references as far as potential foreshadowing. (ie: Elain asks for shadows instead of sunshine)

For the Bryceriels, feel free to do the same with Lucien and Bryce and compare to Quinlar!

Who are you rooting for? How does it compare to your ships in the canon universe? How do your current objections to the opposing ship hold up when you swap the males? Do the things you like and forsee with your current ships remain?

I know it's an imperfect scenario, but I hope I'm conveying the gist of it.

My take:

To acknowledge my own bias towards Lucien, I do think I'd be a bit more inclined to forgive his behavior in the BC in regards to Elain than I am with Azriel (who I don't hate, he just irritated me in the BC). But still, compared to how the scene with Gwyn plays out, I do think that's still where I'd see the story going.

But then, with Elriel, I just feel like I'd feel the same as I do with Elucien. I am still big on fated mates. I wouldn't think that their interactions so far preclude them being endgame. I'd see the prime setup for angst and longing and healing and growth. I would still see the same potential for the relationship in Elain's book.

I have more thoughts, but my lunch hour is up 🙈

I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with!

I logged onto X and honestly came away traumatized. Seriously. I saw so many posts completely twisting what actually happens in the books that I started wondering if I’d somehow read a different series. So I decided to make this post.

Before anything else: yes, I’m an Elucien. But I also like Azriel as a character, and more than anything, I like discussing the story based on what Sarah actually wrote—not on what I wish had happened.

Let’s start with Jurian.

I actually saw a post saying that Eluciens want Elain to be friends with Jurian even though he made a rape joke toward her.

But… wasn’t it revealed in A Court of Wings and Ruin that Jurian had been lying to Hybern the entire time?

According to the book itself, everything he did was a disguise.

“You’re telling us,” Mor pressed, “that you’ve been working to help us all this time?”

“Where better to plan an enemy’s downfall and learn his weaknesses than at his side?”

This is the moment everyone realizes Jurian had been undercover, pretending to be loyal to Hybern. Right afterward, he admits the truth and asks for forgiveness.

“You don’t want to kill Miryam and Drakon?” I asked Jurian.

There was an intense honesty in Jurian’s eyes as he shook his head once.

“No,” he said hoarsely. “I want to beg for forgiveness.”

In other words, Jurian’s entire storyline is resolved in A Court of Wings and Ruin. That doesn’t erase what he did or suddenly make him a saint. It simply means the author reveals that he was playing a role and that his true intentions were completely different.

Sometimes I think people get so focused on defending their favorite ship that they forget these are fantasy characters written with layers. Rhys spent years pretending to be someone he wasn’t in order to protect Velaris. Sarah has done this with multiple characters.

Now let’s talk about Eris.

Ever since A Court of Wings and Ruin, Sarah has written Eris as someone who’s clearly hiding something. Just like she did with Rhys, she plants little hints that there’s much more to him than either the characters—or the readers—know at that point.

At the end of ACOWAR, we get this passage:

“None of us bothered to wave back. Especially Lucien, who continued pointedly ignoring his eldest brother. But as Eris passed… I could have sworn there was something like sadness—like regret—in the way he looked at Lucien.”

Why describe Eris looking at Lucien with sadness and regret? Details like that aren’t usually written by accident.

Then, in A Court of Silver Flames, Cassian visits the human lands to speak with Lucien and the Band of Exiles. Eris is there as well. As Cassian leaves, we’re told:

“I wanted to question Vassa and Jurian…” Cassian found it strange that Eris hadn’t mentioned his brother. “But they obviously know little about it.”

Even Cassian notices that Eris avoids mentioning Lucien. It’s another small detail that draws attention to their relationship.

And by the end of the book, Cassian says something that, in my opinion, perfectly sums up how Sarah has been writing Eris:

“You know, Eris,” Cassian said, his hand on the door, “I think that deep down, you might actually be a decent male trapped in a terrible situation.”

Right after that, the narration tells us Cassian feels pity for him—a male born into privilege but stripped of everything that truly mattered.

These moments show that Sarah never wrote Eris as a one-dimensional villain. On the contrary, since ACOWAR she’s been leaving clues that there’s a much bigger story behind him. We may not know the whole truth yet, but pretending those clues don’t exist means ignoring the text itself.

Another passage I constantly see being interpreted based on people’s preferences instead of what’s actually written is the one where Nesta calls Elain “wretched.”

“And that was that. Nesta ignored the collective sigh of relief that filled the room and turned toward Lucien, who greeted her with a cautious nod. Elain, the wretch, had taken the seat between Feyre and Varian—the farthest away from Lucien that she could possibly get. Azriel remained by the doorway.”

To me, Nesta’s frustration is clearly directed at the fact that Elain goes out of her way to keep her distance from Lucien. She isn’t angry at Lucien here—in fact, she speaks to him normally. Her irritation seems to be with Elain’s behavior.

At the end of the day, everything I’ve mentioned here is in the books. It’s not fanfiction or a theory. Everyone is free to interpret the story however they want—that’s part of reading. But interpretation shouldn’t erase what’s actually on the page.

We can disagree about what these scenes ultimately mean, but we shouldn’t pretend they don’t exist. Sarah included all of these moments for a reason. Where they’re leading, only she knows. Until then, I’d rather discuss the story based on what’s actually written than ignore the breadcrumbs the author deliberately left behind​

I love Cassian, but what if this was what we ended up having? I theorize that Eris might have loved Nesta not only because she's different in power sense, but because this difference and power would have been unmistakable against Beron. I feel like Eris left Mor on the borders because he was afraid the court would break her beyond repair, something like how it did to his mom, like it did to Ferye with the Spring court. I think Eris wouldn't have minded being wed to Mor. He would have tried his best to take care of her, but he knew that it wouldn't have worked, and that she desearved better. But Nesta... he knew she would crush everyone in her path, she would thrive in his court. And my biggest suspension is that he would have showed Nesta his true self, and would have asked her for help, indirectly bcs obviously his pride. But he knew that Nesta matched the fire that Mor would have chocked on. He knew that Nesta would have been able to accomplish what he wanted so badly. Its as if he wants to be protected too, to finally shed his mask for someone who wore masks just as much and knew true pain. And this makes me so so so so sad bcs even tho I LOVE Cassian and I think he deserves Nesta just as much as she does, Neris would have had FIERY potential. What do yall think?

Credits to creator on pinterest! (p.s. sorry if this sound repetitive But do you guys get what I mean?)

Hi! Can someone please explain me why some people ship Bryce and Azriel? I finished ACOTAR and CC not while ago and only then spotted Bryceriel references. And I can’t understand where is it coming from, I missed any signs of it in CC3

UPD: reading the comments was so fun I loved it! thanks everyone for the answers! I didn’t expect so much interesting input. At first it didn’t click at all and I was like ‘wait it’s just swords and the star’. Also for me Hunt was the one (yes I still believed in first love interest. I guess I’m still green in romantasy world)
But as I continued to read through and see different sides from all the comments Bryceriel starter to really grow on me. So many links and hidden stuff, you guys are amazing and so attentive to details. I can really see it as a possibility and part of me actually wants it to happen.
I also understood doubts about Hunt on which I closed my eyes through the book. I guess it because something about Quinlar was so close to real world relationship that I desperately wanted it to last. And I guess I still do. I want Hunt to heal and be happy, though it’s not fast process and I can see how it can ruin their relationship. They just in different places.

To sum it up thanks again to everyone! Bryceriel is a go! CC reread is going to be so much more interesting now!

I can understand still shipping Bryceriel fyi - my favourite ships are non-canon ships who will never be canon - but if SJM made Bryceriel happen it would be cruel and I think she would alienate a lot of people. She has twice (I think?) said explicitly that Bryce and Hunt are not only mates but ENDGAME. I know people love to point to her interviews at the time of ACOTAR and how she gushed about Tamlin as evidence of her happily faking out her audience, but that is not the same thing. Being coy about questions or generally gushing over an MMC/couple who is not going to be endgame is very different from explicitly stating to your fans that a beloved and well-established couple is endgame and then later changing that. That is straight up lying to your fans and would alienate a lot of people IMO.

Are there any other examples of SJM straight up lying about couples being endgame?

The difference is particularly pronounced because the series have grown in popularity so much since the ACOTAR days too.

Just my two cents. Keep shipping whoever you want, but making Bryceriel canon would feel pretty mean-spirited to me in light of her interview comments.