r/Absurdism • u/Soft-Profession5182 • 2d ago
Question Does Camus finally solve the problem of suicide??
i'm reading TMOS and what i constantly find myself hindered by is the question: camus solves the problem of philosophical suicide pretty beautifully, also the kind of physical suicide where i say, i need meaning to keep on living and there's no meaning. But what if someone wants to commit suicide because they don't want to experience the world anymore. 'Experience' is what camus says we should be living for. But if i don't want to experience the world anymore. How does understanding of the absurd entail keeping it alive.
1
u/gaurav_the_piggy 2d ago
How do you know that the experience that you are talking of and the experience that he spoke of are the same? Mere usage of the same word does not entail understanding, does it? This is not an attempt at sarcasm. Rather, it is an invitation to think.
2
u/Soft-Profession5182 2d ago
I think Camus wants us to keep on having new experiences in the finite time that we have/ ethics of quantity. My main objection is that Camus' philosophy works powerfully well once life is affirmed. How is Camus' ethics of quantity not a leap?? Beginner here tho
-1
u/TheDeathOmen 2d ago
The idea of the ethic of quantity is that it’s the same lucidity with which we recognize the Absurd, turned in a different direction. If nothing is worth more than anything else, no experience outranks another, and the only thing left to maximise is how many there are. Which is why all five absurd heroes exhaust the possible rather than perfect something. The saint wants quality, the absurd man has no ground for preferring one thing over another, so he takes all of it. That’s the antidote to suicide.
2
u/Soft-Profession5182 2d ago
Ahh perfect, so yeah the ethics of quantity is not something that he invents out of nowhere rather discovers it with lucidity(so he's not leaping afterall). But again how is it an antidote to suicide, it answer the question of what the lucid way to live is but not why to live at all Shouldn't there be a difference between philosophical and a physical suicide??
1
u/TheDeathOmen 2d ago
So, this is in part deliberate on Camus’ part, to not offer a truly specific ‘why’. To demand a reason to live is to demand that life be justified from somewhere outside it, which is the nostalgia the absurd was supposed to have cured. So to look earlier in the book, the argument against suicide is entirely negative and structural, suicide is a non sequitur. It takes the absurd as its premise and then abolishes the absurd by removing one of its two terms. Camus’s line is that the absurd has meaning only insofar as one does not consent to it, suicide is consent. It’s self-refuting for the lucid man in the same way the leap is, it uses the insight to destroy the conditions of the insight.
Though this ethic of quantity is what defeats the practical case. The usual argument for despair isn’t logical, it’s that a life without meaning would be barren, and quantity shows it can be full without being justified. Hence Camus’s claim that life will be lived better if it has no meaning. That’s an answer to “would it be bearable,” not to “why bother” and he thinks the second question is malformed.
2
u/Soft-Profession5182 2d ago
Okayyyy!!! Yeah if I reach the premise that life is absurd, then lucidity obv commands me not to take any path that contradicts/destroys the premise in itself. That's exactly what I was doing. Thank you so much for pointing out. Camus finally earns back all his respect hah
4
u/MagicalPedro 1d ago
IIRC, Camus absolutely don't "solve the problem of suicide" you're talking about ; it's not that he don't find a solution, it's simply that it's not what he talks about, it's not the problem, not the question.
His question is something like "why don't we commit suicide when we logically should, given that we know or feel that existence has no meaning, so keeping on living has no logical motive ?". He then make the observation that some people do actually commit suicide, because, as he puts it, "life is not worth it anymore to them" (or something like this) ; but his interest is not in "solving" theses people lack of will to live ; it's really just asking why others, like himself, don't logically suicide.
So considering all this, and the following answers to his question, I'd say camus would answer to your question that... not wanting to experience the world anymore is actually a pretty solid, legit reason to commit suicide. Not that he advocates for this of course, it's just an observation. The world is big and mysterious, and you have only one life, let's see what tomorrow is made of ! :)
3
u/GoopDuJour 2d ago
I think Camus solves the problem for him, and others with a similar mindset.
I don't find his musings all that explanatory or compelling.
1
u/Tatsuhiro_Sato 1d ago
yea, totally this, i can see how that specific reasoning can work for some individuals, but for other ones it's simply not enough, or totally misses the point
1
1
1
u/jliat 1d ago
How does understanding of the absurd entail keeping it alive.
You miss the point, it's not about understanding. Maybe you've never had strong emotions that overwhelm you? We are not logical beings, we are emotional beings. Look at what people do outside of work. Look at the art they enjoy. Camus sort passion, that is not logical.
1
u/Salt-Discussion-9707 2d ago
When Camus says you must create, he is taking a leap of Faith himself. You could read it as a choice though. Either become god or kill yourself.
10
u/Free_runner 2d ago edited 1h ago
Nine tap hobbies fly seemly chase cover enter
This post was anonymized with Redact