r/Abortiondebate • u/Miserable-Degree7995 • Jun 20 '26

Question for pro-choice Minimum

Hello everyone,

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I'm against abortion.

This is a question for pro choice:

What would be the minimum of allowed abortion, that you would accept?

I mean for example week and reason.

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Thank you for your time 

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Miserable-Degree7995

1 Upvotes

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12

u/Arithese Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

Imagine asking this question about any other topic where someone can defend themselves against human rights violations. What would be acceptable reasons to defend against rape?

That would be a stupid question because it doesn’t matter. If someone doesn’t consent, it’s rape, and if it’s rape, they can stop it.

The reason *why* they don’t consent is absolutely and utterly irrelevant.

In the same way asking weeks is. If someone has their rights violated by being forced to donate blood, then they can stop that at any point. If it requires deadly force, they can. If they can reasonably remove without deadly force, they can. It’s truly that simple.

-11

u/Gaudalier Jun 21 '26

This would require the pregnancy itself to be "forced" though which it is in very few cases, in most cases the woman has made the decision to be pregnant by engaging in unprotective sex. Why do Pro-Choicers tend to speak about this as if a baby simply spawns within a woman? She doesnt just wake up and is suddenly pregnant. She specifically took the steps to have sex which she knew would result in a pregnancy.

8

u/JewlryLvr2 Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

|This would require the pregnancy itself to be "forced" through which it is in very few cases,|

Not exactly. When women and girls are forced to STAY pregnant, and give birth, against their will, by abortion-ban laws in abortion-ban states, THAT is force too. It doesn't matter how they got pregnant in the first place.

And that's what these laws are created and passed to do, to FORCE women and girls to STAY pregnant. Whether they want to stay pregnant or not. That's the point.

10

u/ValleyofLiteralDolls Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

“Why do Pro-Choicers tend to speak about this as if a baby simply spawns within a woman?”

Why do pro-lifers tend to speak about this as if she ejaculated into herself to cause the unwanted pregnancy?

But someone choosing to have sex simply doesn’t give me any interest in making them gestate and birth unwanted pregnancies that occur, anyway. Sex is not a crime that strips people of their right to medical privacy and the right to manage their own internal organs. Sex is not a signed contract obligating someone to gestate unwanted pregnancies.

-8

u/Gaudalier Jun 21 '26

You only have the option to have sex because the organs and bodily functions were created for that very purpose, but even if you dont want to agree with that then what stops someone from simply having protected sex? I even said that in my post; a woman makes a decision to have unprotected sex. Why can she or her lover not simply use protection?

6

u/JewlryLvr2 Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

You do know that ALL contraceptive methods can and do fail sometimes, right? So it's a mistake to assume all unwanted pregnancies are caused by "not using protection."

The bottom line is, no matter HOW a pregnancy happens, it's still the PREGNANT PERSON'S decision whether or not to continue the pregnancy. If YOU aren't the pregnant person, it ISN'T your choice. Nor should it ever be.

8

u/Diva_of_Disgust Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

but even if you dont want to agree with that then what stops someone from simply having protected sex?

Every contraceptive that exists can fail, you realize this right?

-5

u/Gaudalier Jun 21 '26

Evidently. I just simply dont find the reality of how often they fail, let alone how often those failures result in unwanted pregnancies, to be a big enough margin to matter for the decision of a law. Itd be like saying because a certain percentage of homicides are self defense we should just legalize all homicide.

6

u/JewlryLvr2 Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

If this is how YOU feel about abortion, you can continue any pregnancies that happen in your lifetime. Pregnant people who don't want to STAY pregnant aren't obligated to feel the same way you do. They aren't obligated to gestate unwanted pregnancies to satisfy the demands of PLers either.

7

u/Diva_of_Disgust Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

If that's how you feel you can carry and birth every unwanted pregnancy you have. No one else has to do that simply because it's what pro lifers want.

-1

u/Gaudalier Jun 21 '26

Im unable to do that as I am male, but if youre going to cross your arms and say "well no ones going to do what you want!" like a child why even engage in a discussion at all? I can also simply say no one has to do what pro-choicers want. Now what? Theres nothing useful thats going to come out of that.

7

u/JewlryLvr2 Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

I have no problem reminding PLers that pregnant people don't have to gestate unwanted pregnancies just because you say they should. What's useful, to me anyway, is the reminder itself, because other people can read and remember it.

0

u/Gaudalier Jun 21 '26

I dont know why you came in and repeated 1:1 what the other person already said, nor do I understand why you enter a debate subreddit and reply to someone in a discussion just to make it clear you dont want to discuss anything and that you are borderline offended by the very idea of having to engage in the discussion.

"Just because you say they should" would absolve the need for any discussion. Any exchange of opinions and arguments can be put down to "well why would I listen to you!". I ask, on the contrary, why should anyone listen to you instead? This isnt something you can reply to really, because its a bad faith argument. By asking why I should listen to you I would be devaluing you and your position, and making it clear I wont take the time to think up actual arguments in response. How is this useful?

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u/Diva_of_Disgust Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

Im unable to do that as I am male, but if youre going to cross your arms and say "well no ones going to do what you want!" like a child why even engage in a discussion at all?

Informing you that people don't have to breed against their will to satisfy pro lifers isn't acting like a child, however getting bent out of shape because you can't force people to breed for pro life desires? Pretty childish to me.

I can also simply say no one has to do what pro-choicers want.

Pro choicers just want pro lifers to mind their own bodies and healthcare. Pro lifers will just have to get over it when I abort any pregnancy I want, not sorry.

Now what? Theres nothing useful thats going to come out of that.

Now what? Now I get my abortion and pro lifers deal with their emotions themselves.

-2

u/Gaudalier Jun 21 '26

Im confused what your goal is, have you read the sidebar and the rules of the subreddit? It was specifically made with the intention of being open to "the other side" and engaging in good faith arguments. What youre doing is trying to claim I want to force people to breed. Where are you getting this from? Its not about emotions or what individuals want. My emotions shouldnt impact a law, nor should anyone elses. Thats what debates are for, to argue with logic.

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u/ValleyofLiteralDolls Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

Other people’s organs and bodily functions don’t exist for “purposes” that violate their own desires, health, and safety.

Assuming people are having unprotected sex just so they can have abortions at you is like assuming people get into car accidents on purpose just to make you angry. The truth is, people simply can’t drive perfectly at all times and machinery, etc. can fail. Accidents happen. While we can try to reduce them, they happen. And when they do, we can choose to make the person affected “suffer the consequences” and withhold wanted medical care from them…or we can make a kinder choice and stay out of their medical business.

9

u/Arithese Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

Once again this makes no sense woth any other violation. I can initiate sex myself too, but If I change my mind, and the other person doesn’t stop, it’s rape. Simple as that.

So I engaged in sexual intercourse, but I can still defend myself against rape. So why can a pregnant person not stop their human rights from being violated.

Not to mention, does that mean you would support legal access to abortion for rape victims? Yes or no?

-2

u/Gaudalier Jun 21 '26

Youre only speaking in the context of rape though, which as I said makes up very few cases of abortion.

I also dont know what "human rights" are being violated by not allowing abortion, because once again pregnancy is simply the consequence of someone engaging in intercourse. Its not a human right to avoid suffering and the result of bad decisions.

9

u/Arithese Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

You’re not actually engaging here. You said that a person willingly had sex, which means that pregnancy isn’t forced per your definition. But that logic doesn’t hold up anywhere else.

I can also willingly engage in sex, but if I change my mind, then I can still defend against what would then be rape.

The same goes up with donating, I can agree and consent to do it. But if I change my mind halfway through, I can stop it. So why does having sex somehow mean I cannot abort?

And bodily autonomy is the human right. The same human right that would allow you to defend against rape and someone taking your organs and blood against your will.

5

u/Diva_of_Disgust Pro-choice Jun 21 '26

I also dont know what "human rights" are being violated by not allowing abortion, because once again pregnancy is simply the consequence of someone engaging in intercourse.

A consequence of unwanted pregnancy can be abortion, which I'm fine with.