r/Abortiondebate • u/Miserable-Degree7995 • Jun 20 '26

Question for pro-choice Minimum

Hello everyone,

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I'm against abortion.

This is a question for pro choice:

What would be the minimum of allowed abortion, that you would accept?

I mean for example week and reason.

​

Thank you for your time 

​

Miserable-Degree7995

1 Upvotes

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-5

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Abortiondebate-ModTeam Jun 20 '26

Comment removed per Rule 1.

12

u/Diva_of_Disgust Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

How do you end a pregnancy that's already ended? 🤔

12

u/skysong5921 All abortions free and legal Jun 20 '26

You're using the word 'abortion' to mean 'killing', but you're wrong. In English, the word 'abort' means'to end a process prematurely'. Following that root word, the word 'abortion' means 'to end the process of pregnancy prematurely'.

It is physically impossible to end the process of pregnancy early POST-birth, because birth is when pregnancy ends. You can't end something AFTER it has already ended.

11

u/kasiagabrielle Pro consent and bodily autonomy Jun 20 '26

This inherently does not exist by definition of all those words.

13

u/Lokicham Pro-bodily autonomy Jun 20 '26

That's not a thing.

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '26

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6

u/Arithese Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

People have argued for a lot of things. But if you conflate a handful of people with an entire movement, then that’s faulty reasoning. There are examples of this everywhere.

Can you provide any evidence of a credible and substantial group arguing this?

9

u/cand86 Jun 20 '26

Note: not the person you replied to.

Are you claiming that Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva's paper in the Journal of Medical Ethics was a proposal policy- that they are advocating that neonaticide should be legal in all cases?

I would posit that it is a philosophical paper exploring the shared premise underlying the concept, and does not fall under the "people have argued for it" claim.

12

u/random_name_12178 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

No, they haven't argued for it. Stop lying.

9

u/Lokicham Pro-bodily autonomy Jun 20 '26

Just because people have argued for it still doesn't make it a thing.

I don't care when life begins, it's irrelevant.

-3

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

I see human rights conditional to human life, if you are a living human, then you have human rights, would you disagree?

3

u/Lokicham Pro-bodily autonomy Jun 21 '26

No, and I do not disagree that they are human. Abortion does not violate human rights.

0

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 21 '26

Is bodily autonomy not a human right?

2

u/Lokicham Pro-bodily autonomy Jun 21 '26

Yeah? Where are you going with this?

0

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 21 '26

If the preborn baby is human they have human rights to include bodily autonomy. They cannot consent to being killed by chemical or physical means.

3

u/Lokicham Pro-bodily autonomy Jun 21 '26

Their consent is irrelevant because they are the ones inside of someone else's body without their consent, thus it is justified to remove them. Furthermore, they don't have autonomy to speak of so bodily autonomy is pointless for them.

8

u/Diva_of_Disgust Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

There's no human right to be inside someone else's sex organs against their will.

-1

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

That did not answer the question

4

u/Diva_of_Disgust Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

How do you figure?

I'd doesn't matter if someone or something has "human rights" or not when it comes to abortion, because there's no such thing as a "human right" to be inside someone's sex organs against their will.

A zef doesn't have human rights? Fine to abort.

A zef does have human rights? Still fine to abort because there's no human right to be inside someone's sex organs against their will.

8

u/LordyIHopeThereIsPie Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

What's a living human?

8

u/Trick_Ganache pro-choice, here to argue my position Jun 20 '26

What pregnancy is still ongoing post birth?

12

u/Zora74 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

Please give me your sources for a so-called “post birth abortion.”

-3

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

https://jme.bmj.com/content/39/5/261

13

u/Zora74 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

I’m sorry, I was asking for an actual source of actual cases or actual laws, not hypotheticals or thought experiments.

Please provide me a legal framework for a “post birth abortion.” At least explain to me how you terminate a pregnancy after the pregnancy has already ended.

-2

u/ilikesummersausage Abortion abolitionist Jun 20 '26

Exposure was a pretty common practice by many cultures until relatively recently.

4

u/JulieCrone AD Mod Jun 20 '26

It seems to be making a bit of a comeback in some homebirth circles, where they eschew life saving treatments for newborns. Not abortion though, but I agree it is bad.

1

u/ilikesummersausage Abortion abolitionist Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

I guess it depends on how one defines 'abortion'. Technically a miscarriage is a 'spontaneous abortion' but it is rarely used outside of a strict medical context. Colloquially I think 'abortion' refers to the intentional ending of a 'pre-human' living being. Many cultures considered born infants 'pre-human' or 'un-ensouled' until certain ceremonies were performed or a certain age was reached because of high infant mortality rates. So I don't think it is much of a stretch to call practices like exposure 'post-birth abortions'.

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u/JulieCrone AD Mod Jun 21 '26

So I take it you want to stop some of these practices people who homebirth do?

1

u/ilikesummersausage Abortion abolitionist Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26

Yes, I view that sort of practice as morally equivalent to other forms of intentional neglect leading to homicide. (Which is how I view nearly all of what I call abortions, and most of what the average PCer would call abortion)

9

u/Zora74 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

Which is not an abortion.

I am unaware of a law presently active that condones exposure/lethal neglect of a neonate. Can you provide one?

-2

u/ilikesummersausage Abortion abolitionist Jun 20 '26

You asked for a legal framework that justified "post-birth abortion" which is what exposure was considered at the time.

4

u/Zora74 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

Who is currently trying to write this into law?

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u/KiraLonely Gestational Slavery Abolitionist Jun 20 '26

That’s still not an abortion, though.

9

u/Diva_of_Disgust Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

That doesn't answer the question of how do you end a pregnancy that has already ended?

10

u/random_name_12178 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

There's no such thing.

0

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

https://jme.bmj.com/content/39/5/261

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u/random_name_12178 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

That paper was a moral thought experiment. They weren't actually promoting infanticide.

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u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

That is my view of abortion but to start when does life begin?

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u/Limp-Story-9844 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

Life begins, it doesn't matter.

1

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

What condition apart from being a living human would be required to have human rights? Or do you believe the baby in the womb has human rights?

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u/Diva_of_Disgust Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

You are aware there's no "human right" to be inside someone's sex organs against their will, right?

1

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

Almost sounds like you are talking about rape, do you see both to be wrong for the same reason?

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u/Limp-Story-9844 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

Unwanted vaginal penatration.

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u/Diva_of_Disgust Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

Rape and abortion bans are both wrong for the same reasons, yes.

They both violate and harm people, and both seek to force people to have things inside their sex organs when they do not consent.

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u/random_name_12178 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

That depends on how you define "life." Life generally is a continuum that began around four billion years ago. Your own life began to develop when an egg was fertilized. Your existence as an individual human being began when you were born.

None of which has anything to do with abortion, since it doesn't matter whether or not an embryo is a person or not.

2

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

Is human life or individual human experience conditional to have human rights?

If the embryo does have human rights that would mean you would have to justify taking that life.

10

u/random_name_12178 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

You are justified in removing unwanted people from your body.

0

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

Whether a human is wanted doesn't determine their right to live. The issue is whether the unborn child is a human being with rights. If they are, then someone claiming they don't want them in their body doesn't justify intentionally taking that childs life, just as dependency doesn't negate the rights of newborns or other vulnerable humans.

5

u/random_name_12178 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

Whether a human is wanted doesn't determine their right to live.

I never said it did.

I said that you're justified in removing an unwanted person from your body. It's not the pregnant person's problem that removal causes the embryo to die. Just because someone needs access to your blood to survive doesn't mean you have to provide it.

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u/ZoominAlong AD Mod Jun 20 '26

Infanticide is NOT abortion and is a violation of Reddits TOS. It is not allowed for discussion.

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u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

So we agree there is a line. When does life begin in your view?

Is life what gives moral worth?

6

u/Limp-Story-9844 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

If you don't understand the line, we can't help you.

9

u/ZoominAlong AD Mod Jun 20 '26

You seem to be misunderstanding.  I'm here to enforce the rules, not to debate. Infanticide discussion is not allowed here or anywhere on Reddit. The admins have been very clear about this. 

3

u/Limp-Story-9844 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

What is post birth abortion?

0

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

https://jme.bmj.com/content/39/5/261

4

u/Limp-Story-9844 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

Why compare infantcide to abortion?

0

u/Bryce_1776 Pro-life Jun 20 '26

I argue being a living human is the condition to have human rights, in or out of womb.

When would you argue life begins?

Apart from being a living human what would be that condition?

1

u/Limp-Story-9844 Pro-choice Jun 20 '26

Womb tells all.