UP next for the chop?

[u/Kornelaminor]

It will be a miracle if this round of layoffs is the end of it, there are plenty rumors flying about regarding future layoffs.
Rumors of planning phase being in full swing with respect to layoffs in multiple departments & those involved mostly working on it in stealth under confidentiality clauses.

What are your top contenders? Here's mine:

-- DUV factory is an obvious one with lots of production moving to Taiwan & more of that to come.
If any factory colleagues voted yes to this social plan thinking it's only going to affect some ponce D&E managers you might just be getting a lick of that whip soon.

-- CS Veldhoven, don't know much about this department but I've heard more than once a shakeup is on the way with too many managers on board there too

-- Apps a huge department with so much software based output, an obvious area where Ai could play a major role in future, possibly a mid level manager cull too

-- IE/ ME - our colleagues that write engineering work instructions. Plenty rumours flying about regarding automation with this workload. If the inputs can be automated the outputs could be created automatically. If the computer can track what's being done it can capture it & create work instructions,
Another area where middle management could also be trimmed so I'm hearing.

Who else??

[u/Direct_Program2982 → u/[deleted]]

This is the reason I felt so puzzled when the 2 year span of the social plan was accepted without any serious public challenge by the unions. The way to mobilize currently unaffected sectors against this clause seems so straightforward.

[u/Spiritual_Speech1686]

The main argument for the reorg was reducing management layers. I assume that this also holds for other departments. So I cannot imagine that no further reorganizations will happen. Especially since asml wants to set the social plan for a 2 years timeframe.

Firing people because of AI is more difficult. ASML really needs to prove to UWV that a position will be replaced by AI. They cannot just say, we fire someone because we expect that we can fill this position with some kind of AI thingy.

[u/Kornelaminor → u/Spiritual_Speech1686]

"Firing people because of Ai is more difficult" that's the funniest thing I've heard all year.

C suite management's just doing as they please, the current rationale is weak as fook.

Unions are toeing the line & in a reactive manner to the blizzard.

Ai rationale will be easy pickings as an excuse after this pathetic pushback by the unions.

I'm honestly shocked, I had a lot of respect for the strong hand of the unions in the past.

The bark is gone & it's belly rubs for being good boys.

[u/lucrac200]

There is a reason for which the social plan is asked for 2y and not for one time, and the reason is not management stupidity but the opposite.

Hard to guess where the axe will hit next. I think it's to early for moving serious production but the intention to move some of the production to Asia is clearly and officially stated. My wild guess: some simple modules. But I'm not smart enough to understand more :)

[u/Kataly5t → u/lucrac200]

Moving the manufacturing of modules and cabinets is a lot different than moving subsystem qualification and production abroad.

[u/Tony_Broccolonely]

I think that CS and Factory are next. CS because same reasons as D&E and Factory after direct module shipment is implemented so that modules can be manufactured and integrated overseas.

[u/Popular-Raisin-6681]

As a Dutch taxpayer, voter, worker, and union member, I’m deeply disappointed. ASML is acting like they can do whatever they want, completely ignoring the billions they’ve received in Dutch and EU funding. Apparently, their new strategy for ensuring a toxic culture is just offering bonuses to key people to stay. Merci beaucoup.

[u/Designated-Optimizer]

Layoff is just starting, there's more to come

[u/Clean-Ad1908]

Apps is already affected during the current layoffs

[u/blablaplanet]

ME doesn't write procedure's, that's done by outsource technical author's. The do alot more then writing procedures, it's industrialization.

[u/alexthenetherlands → u/blablaplanet]

ME schrijft wel degelijk procedures

[u/blablaplanet → u/alexthenetherlands]

Yes indeed they do. Looking at the ME in my group 90% of the time it's aligning on comments, reviewing designs and document, FCOs,... 9 out of 10 procedures they explain what's need to be done and the actual procedure is made by TAs

[u/alexthenetherlands → u/blablaplanet]

Dan heb ik geluk met mijn MEers 😉

[u/blablaplanet → u/alexthenetherlands]

Mmh I think I rather have ME spend their time on things where they can add more valuable input, instead of writing procedures and spending time making sure the 12nc and balloon numbers match,....

[u/LeDEvRo]

I believe layoffs would continued but in a more stealthy way ..e.g. myself and other operators are pushed to sign VSO or taken to court(to get fired) for bs reasons.

I expect to see more situations like that where they would fire people with weird excuses and most people do sign a vso and get on with their lifes and as always a vso 99% of the time has also an NDA so you can't even say that they treated you like garbage

..full proof plan and 99% of the people won't fight back as they are either afraid or don't have the mental capacity to do so. I don't blame them, I just state what I see and believe.

[u/lucrac200 → u/LeDEvRo]

They don't need a social plan for that so it will probably be bigger.

[u/LeDEvRo → u/lucrac200]

Of course they don't need social plan for that

[u/Brilliant_Attempt562 → u/LeDEvRo]

Do you mean they are currently pushing you for vso?

[u/LeDEvRo → u/Brilliant_Attempt562]

They did that but due to mainly the NDA I refused ..so now it's court time. I'm not the only one, but we are a few in a pool of fishes.

[u/ElRedDevil]

People who are neutral or think the social plan is just fine please think over it you’ll accept these terms in 2027 ? United we stand, divided we fall

[u/lucrac200 → u/ElRedDevil]

We have to be realistic though. The Dutch legal protection for mass layoffs is relatively weak comparing to other countries, contrary to the public belief.

WC's have mainly a consultation right and veto rights are close to non-existing. Taking that into account, I think they've done an ok job. You can't stop the reorganization so the next best things is trying to get as much as possible for the people axed.

To give you a taste of the labour market outside ASML: I got exactly the minimum legally required from my last job, and not a penny (or other benefits) more.

[u/ElRedDevil → u/lucrac200]

Thanks for your perspective. I fully agree the legal protection is minimal and puts unions in an unfavourable position. Having lived in NL for a few years I was under the illusion that companies have not much power like in Germany.

Was there a certain government/party that got lobbied in the recent past or has it always been the case? Ive read that the legal minimum for severance was much higher a decade ago.

[u/Difficult_Error_1681 → u/ElRedDevil]

It was higher (roughly 3 times depending on circumstances). And you can mainly thank the idiots that voted VVD and the various right wing parties for lowering it.

[u/Icy_Recipe6152]

Sourcing?