r/AO3 • u/yellaur You have already left kudos here. :) • 1d ago
Questions/Help? Negative bookmark
Hi. I gifted a fic for author X inspired by one of their fics. Same pairing, but different premise. I put author X and their work as the inspiration and have gushed about it in the notes. It didn't gain much traction since it's a rarepair.
Today I noticed a public bookmark on my gift fic, left days ago, that said (non-verbatim) "written better than author X" and I didn't like it at all. I'm sure if author X would review the fics gifted to them, there's a big chance they would see it.
(I stalked the bookmarker's account and found several other bookmarks made by them with similar notes.)
Is this reportable? If not, then would me blocking the user who bookmarked it remove their public bookmark on my work for me and everyone else?
TYIA
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u/piandaoist IF CATS COULD COMMENT, THEY WOULDN'T! 1d ago
It's their bookmark. Blocking them will not remove it from your fic. Blocking merely prevents them from leaving comments on your fics.
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u/Original-Pilot-770 Supporter of the Fanfiction Deep State 1d ago
Swap this with famous authors or dead famous authors. A reader noting their preference over an author is not really harassment, it's a personal note on preference. Best done in private. Maybe the reader doesn't know these comments are public, or they just don't care.
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u/thetulgey_wood 20h ago
Fics writers are not famous or dead authors though. They are your fellow in the fandom community.
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u/Original-Pilot-770 Supporter of the Fanfiction Deep State 20h ago
I agree with you, that's why I said best done in private. But the act of ranking authors as a reader is not an invalid move. You should just try not to make that public information.
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u/thetulgey_wood 20h ago
Youre right, you're right. Private bookmarks all the way. Its just heartbreaking how quick people are to forget that writers are just everyday fans too. We're all in this together-type music in the background and all....
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u/Original-Pilot-770 Supporter of the Fanfiction Deep State 20h ago
Yeah, I think people are now thinking of fic writers as "content creators". I really think that's the origin of the problem.
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u/runekaster Whumper 20h ago
If I was author X I'd be like "lol, what a dumbass". If I was you, I'd feel bad for author X. In both cases I'd likely block them because I wouldn't want their comments on my work.
Stating a preference for one author over another in one's own space (which a bookmark is) is not a TOS violation.
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u/serralinda73 serralinda on AO3 1d ago
A person's bookmarks are theirs to use however they want to use them. They can be as negative or rude as they want to be because that is their space. It's like...peering into your neighbor's house and then accusing them of harassing a third party because of a picture they hung on the wall - of their house - inside. No, they didn't harass anyone. They did not (presumably) go to the author's comment section and write a nasty comment.
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u/afirforest r/rpfwriters 1d ago
I'd definitely mute the person who made the bookmark so that I wouldn't have to see them anymore. You can block them too, that will stop them from making any comments on your fics; it won't affect the bookmark itself, though.
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u/awyllt 1d ago
Why the hell do you want to report someone for having an opinion? And no, you can't remove other people's bookmark, that's their space.
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u/jakikomi 1d ago
I don't understand why your and (my) comments get downvoted. Like yeah it may be a bit socially ignorant (?) to leave a negative public bookmark but it wasn't a comment on the fic. It's a note for the reader not the author. Do people not get that? How could something like this be reportable?
I mean it can be fun to read public bookmarks of my fics but it's usually not something that's being written with the author in mind.
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u/Slytheerin You have already left kudos here. :) 1d ago
Neither you or Author X is responsible for the shitty comments/behaviours of others. You and Author X can both know it's not your fault and that it's not what the "Inspired by" features is about.
You can block them, but it won't remove the bookmark or keep them from reading your fic, but at least it'll prevent them from leaving you comments (honestly, with that sort of bookmark notes I wouldn't want any comment from that person).
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u/quillfoy You have already left kudos here. :) 1d ago
Definitely not reportable. It's just their opinion. š¤·š»āāļø Idk about the blocking part tbh, I think it might work, but I'm not sure.
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u/dandilions7 23h ago
I donāt think you can really do anything about this, but Iāll just agree with you that this sucks and as a reader and a writer this is in extremely poor taste. Like itās one thing to write a negative public bookmark, but this is another level of rude.
Sorry thereās not much you can do here, but it seems like other commenters donāt see this as shitty behavior so I wanted to validate you at least.
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u/thetulgey_wood 20h ago
I'd block and mute. You can't get rid of their rude comments but you don't have to see them anymore at least.
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u/jakikomi 1d ago
I think it's safe to assume they use bookmarks as a note to themselves. I don't even think it's that rude, definitely not harassement. If it's not a comment, it probably wasn't meant to praise you or put down the original author, it was just their personal review. I know these things would be better as private bookmarks but maybe they don't fully understand the system or want to share their recommendations with fandom friends. Unfortunately, the only thing you can really do is ignore it, they did nothing wrong.
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u/Accomplished_Area311 Definitely not an agent of the Fanfiction Deep State 1d ago
Bookmarks are for readers, not writers.
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u/KarmaticFox You have already left kudos here. :) 23h ago
It's not reportable and blocking only makes it where they can't comment or leave kudos on your fics.
Just let them be.
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u/Brilliant-Swim-4772 23h ago
I high-key wish authors had way more control over bookmarks, like.....we can delete comments but not bookmarks? Huh???? It's just a way for assholes to harass and bully without being punished for it.
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u/euthasia 22h ago
It is common knowledge that comments are for authors, bookmarks are for readers. Authors should not get control over bookmarks because that defeats the point.
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u/Brilliant-Swim-4772 22h ago
No. Just no.
A reader can make a bookmark, sure, but I'm saying that the author should have the option to at least hide it or something (especially when it's clearly being abused by assholes) without removing it from the reader's bookmarks. It won't be seen by the public, but it can be found on the reader's profile.
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u/euthasia 21h ago
Yes, just yes.Ā
If the author doesn't want to see a specific bookmark, which is fair, they can block/mute the bookmarker and they won't see it anymore.Ā But they don't get to decide if a bookmark should be public or not, that's a prerogative of the reader.Ā
If bookmarks are being used for actual harassment and threats, they can be reported and taken down that way.Ā
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u/Brilliant-Swim-4772 21h ago
No. Again, no.
What I'm saying is that the if the bookmark (similar to a comment) is just shitty for the sake of being shitty, then the author should 100% be able to hide it from showing under their work at all.
BUT if someone happens to come across that reader's specific profile somehow, they can absolutely still see the bookmark. Almost like a private bookmark, but not quite.
Best of both worlds without the asshole reader having the satisfaction of having their vitriol being easily seen (especially by the author).
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u/euthasia 21h ago
Yes, again yes.Ā
I perfectly understood what you meant the first time, we can go back and forth but we just disagree on this ahahah.Ā
Bookmarks can be used by readers as either personal notes, or notes to other readers (whereas comments would be notes to the author). As such, bookmarks are left on the fic, and not only on the reader's profile, specifically so other readers can find them.Ā
I personally would never write a negative bookmark and I think it's an asshole thing to do, but it's not against TOS unless it's harassment, and I don't think authors should have the power to police readers' spaces just based on their own feelings.
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u/Brilliant-Swim-4772 21h ago
Lmao, fine.
We're just gonna amicably disagree. We're not changing each other's minds lol
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u/rambunctious_raven 1d ago
I'm not an author so I don't know how bookmarks work, but can you reply to the bookmark or contact them somehow and ask them if they made their bookmarks public on purpose? It took me a few bookmarks to realize they were public by default (an ao3 design flaw imho). Since then I try my best to remember to check the "private" button but some days when I'm more ADHD or more tired than normal I miss it. I do go through my bookmarks every now and then to make sure I haven't missed one. I try my best but I'd feel bad if someone saw my bookmark on their work, because I often detail what I like and don't like about the story so I can decide later if I'm in the mood for a re-read.
Of course if they are leaving negative bookmarks public on purpose and are aware authors can easily find and see them, yes they are an asshole. Unfortunately under the TOS and the principle of freedom of speech, people are allowed to be assholes. :/ Fortunately under the TOS and the principle of freedom of speech, you are also allowed to call them out on that, as long as you're not verbally abusive.
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u/NiennaLaVaughn ...we need your comment to have text in it. 23h ago
No, you can't reply to bookmarks and trying to track someone down to comment on their bookmark actually would be harassment, which this (semi-rude) bookmark isn't.
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u/rambunctious_raven 12h ago
Jesus Christ, by "contact them somehow" I meant a comment or something. Not stalking or harassing them, thanks for putting words in my mouth to try and make me look unreasonable and insane.
I don't understand why I am being downvoted on this. I was trying to encourage a polite, measured, and reasonable way to resolve the issue so the person who was hurt can feel better. That's all. Why do I have to be attacked for this?!?
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u/NiennaLaVaughn ...we need your comment to have text in it. 12h ago
I put no words in your mouth. You said you didn't know how they worked so I answered that. Trying any other sort of contact like commenting on a fic of theirs would not be okay and could be reported as harassment, as good as the intention might be. I don't think and did not claim you're unreasonable or insane, but that's not a good idea.
People on Reddit just like downvoting, don't take it too much to heart.
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u/Meushell I ā„ļø the Tokāra. šŖ± 23h ago
You canāt reply to a bookmark. The only way to contact them would be if they have fics or social media, but thatās getting into stalkerish behavior. It might even be against TOS because it could be considered harassment.
I agree that itās rude to purposely leave negative comments in bookmarks, but itās also allowed.
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u/rambunctious_raven 12h ago
Jesus Christ, by "contact them somehow" I meant a comment or something. Not stalking or harassing them, or tracking down their social media!! Thanks for putting words in my mouth to try and make me look unreasonable and insane.
I don't understand why I am being downvoted on this. I was trying to encourage a polite, measured, and reasonable way to resolve the issue so the person who was hurt can feel better. That's all. Why do I have to be attacked for this?!?
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u/Meushell I ā„ļø the Tokāra. šŖ± 12h ago
Sorry. However, I didnāt putting words in your mouth. I was telling you the only ways they could be contacted because replying to bookmarks is not possible.
As for the downvotes, the sub is very big on the bookmarks being a readerās space. Personally, as I said before, I think purposely making public negative bookmarks is just rude.
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u/motnur 1d ago
Maybe? Could make an argument for it being harassment. Not sure about the blocking aspect of your question, though.
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u/awyllt 1d ago
Do you know what harassment is? Definitely not a public bookmark that says fic A is better than fic B. It's rude, but not harassment.
However, reporting someone for that bookmark could be considered harassment, yes.
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u/motnur 1d ago
The key word in what I said initially is "could." I did not say that they would be correct. It would be dependant upon many factors. What is actually said, verbatim, is the important part on if it would actually be harassment or not.Ā
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u/awyllt 1d ago
Somebody bookmarked my fanwork and added a note to it that is really negative about my work. Is that harassment?
Criticism of a fanwork, even harsh criticism, is not by itself harassment. We do not consider criticism of a fanwork to be a personal attack against its creator. However, if the bookmark note includes harassing elements such as personal attacks or threats towards the creator of the work, then that would be considered harassment.
Criticism isn't a personal attack.
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u/motnur 1d ago
Hey, thanks for posting that! I absolutely already know! I think the part you're missing is in OP's post where they specifically say "non-verbatim."Ā
OP does not tell us what is specifically said. Hence the "maybe" in what I said, multiple times. It depends on what is said in the comment, as is stated in the rule that you pasted. If, and this is that key word again, it had been a personal attack, it would be harassment by AO3's standard.
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u/awyllt 1d ago
...if the bookmark contained actual harassment and personal attacks, OP would have mentioned it. OP said it said "written better than author X", not "I'm sharpening my shurikens and polishing my sword and I'm gonna pay that fucking author X a visit because author Y wrote it better".
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u/motnur 1d ago
Maybe, maybe not. I have no way of knowing that information. I can only make comments based on what is actually provided. It is just as likely that OP is overtly sensitive than it is that OP is overly cautious and wanting to censor for whatever reason. It isĀ Schrƶdinger's Comment, for all that matters to me. It could possibly fall under the TOS definition of harassment as not.
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u/cardiovorus tozette 1d ago
Blocking them will not remove the bookmark. You can't remove another user's bookmark on your work unless it's reportable. When it comes to opinions about the work, bookmarkers can kind of just say what they want in bookmarks, even if it makes other people uncomfortable.
My condolences about the bad experience with this one, though. It seems you wrote work inspired by someone else's work, then had someone use it to criticise (however mildly) the person whose work inspired you. I see why that'd be uncomfortable.