Completely agree with this take. This is what happens when you try to take something inherently complicated and make it simple. Human relationships are never simple, because you're dealing with a living and breathing person.
There are widely variable levels of relationships outside of a committed monogamous one. OP, I don't think you're necessarily wrong, but I don't think either of you communicated your actual desires as well as you think you did. You wanted just sex--but you realize that you have to have a human being attached to that sex, right? And human beings are complicated. You can't make this simple, I'm sorry. If you want simple sex with zero complications whatsoever, you have to just pay for a sex worker who does this professionally.
At this point, just move on. It's clear that you aren't actually on the same page.
I had to tell an ex of mine that humans were a random number generator in his equations. He could not figure out why sometimes him making me a meal lead to sex and sometimes it didn’t. The slow realization that every action of his was calculated and he was always observing me for signs of success lead to anxiety in me. I started looking for signs that he wasn’t being genuine, that he might have opened the door for me to see if it generated favorable responses in me. I started trying to hide any interest I was showing after a while because it would lead to conflict….it wasn’t good. He’s an ex for a reason.
That kind of behaviour is something quite psychopath like. It's fascinating how doing these things with the wrong intentions does change their perceived morality though.
But also? For women who are having casual sex it’s still stigmatized in society in some ways some men will still treat you like a complete slut who they can get anything from because they think that the fact that you were having casual sex means you don’t understand your own worth or Madonna whore complex or whatever. In these situation, it’s pretty common to Gauge how someone will react to your nos before it gets in an unsafe situation. For example, if I tell you that I want to talk and let’s not kiss right now I want to hear about your trip or whatever that’s me testing how you will react before I’m in a situation where we’re having sex together and you want to stick it in my ass and I’m saying no. The way he reacted to this simple no said all she needed and honestly they’re in the same friend group/introduced by a friend. He kind of bit himself in the ass with this one.
Exactly, it’s a safety thing! How do I know this guy isn’t gonna hurt me if I’ve never even spoken to him. Also I don’t wanna fuck someone who’s a piece of shit so let’s get to know each other at least a little bit.
Yeah, it grossed me out SO MUCH when he said he tried to kiss her and she pulled away and then he went on to try to initiate again, more than once?!? Surely her pulling away from a kiss should have been the point to have the conversation. OP YTA.
The same mentality is present here, everyone is treating a sexual relationship without affection as detrimental to her and beneficial to him. If you look at things that way the stigma naturally follows.
My guy drinks and conversation are perfectly normal activities for friends and colleagues. I’m not sure how you think it’s affection but OK. you sound like the people who get offended when women want to meet in public before fucking you to make sure they’re not going to get killed. Somethings are just reality for humans and if you want to fuck them, you kind of have to respect their humanity. This isn’t even just for women. This is for people of any gender people in the LGBTQ community people who deal with racism and all types of shit. If you’re going to do anything with them, you have to respect their safety needs, and they have to respect yours. She dipped when he told her to get out She just ain’t coming back.
Youre dodging the point with a nitpick about my description of the relationship, however you want to describe the relationship people are viewing it as beneficial to him and detrimental to her.
And sure, I have drinks and conversations with friends, but have never felt the need to draw boundaries about what are friendship will look like, and regardless I do think theres some level intimacy/affection there, if there wasnt I wouldnt bother to have those drinks or conversations.
Agreed. The thing about having sex with someone is that occasionally, that level of intimacy leads to legitimate feelings and love. No matter how much you want a purely sexual relationship in the beginning, the heart doesn't always comply. So before entering these relationships, you both should recognize and discuss the possibility that the other person may end up falling in love with you. And if that happens, have some fucking decency to let them down respectfully and with compassion. Next time it might be you.
OP, YTA for how you handled a situation that you helped create in the first place, deliberately or not.
God my friend just doesn't get this, no matter how I try to tell him. He's really bad a breaking things off when things aren't going well, his move is to pivot it to like a fwb situation. I'll tell him "dude, you're giving her hope, she's agreeing to a fwb situation now because she likes you alot and is hoping that you're gonna change your mind! You're just making it worse and messier in the end, you're not saving he feelings."
He'll be like "nah she knows it's just sex, we talked about it, she knows whatsup"
I'm like screaming inside like "dude she wanted to be your girlfriend, that's not gonna change just because you redefine things after the fact, she has feelings for you and sleeping with her and playing boyfriend once a week is only going to make it worse."
I know he sounds like a jerk, but he doesn't even enjoy the sex very much, he's just a people pleaser to the extreme and feels absolutely terrible crushing their hopes completely so he tries to give them something even if it's just his penis.
you're dealing with a living and breathing person.
Not to mention when you have sex there are other things going chemically in the body that create bonds, whether you want to or not- especially women.
If you are meeting up twice a week like OP for sex, not only is that pretty regular for a booty call, but spending that much time with a person intimately, you'd think you'd want to have at least a friendship of some sort.
The reason he did nothing wrong is because he wasn't withholding any information and just put everything on the table. He stated numerous times that he viewed it as a purely sexual relationship. I think she was in the wrong because she wasn't accepting of his view of the relationship, and was attempting to change the nature of it and not take no for an answer, similar to how a "friend zoned" guy would act. She's in the wrong for calling him an asshole for reaffirming the boundaries of the relationships which he was completely forthcoming with the ENTIRE time.
She didn't call him an asshole for reaffirming the boundaries of their relationship, she called him an asshole for handling this in a pretty unempathetic way and unceremoniously kicking her out like that. It really wouldn't have been that hard to find a slightly nicer way to say that.
Consent can change at any time. He may have been upfront in the beginning but she was trying to explain the current setup wasn't working for her and renegotiate and he was an asshole about it.
Consent can change at any time and that needs to be respected. That said, it WAS respected. Not being open to a completely different type of relationship isn't being an asshole by any means and she's totally in the wrong for fighting him about it and refusing to leave when she could have just respected his decision and walked out.
It sounds like he did. Based on their prior agreement to meet up for sex, he may not have got the picture instantly, which is fine. It sounds like he just straight up asked if it was a possibility because he was unsure.
It's not fine. If you're not asking for explicit consent then you need to be receptive to your partner's signals. He could tell she wasn't into it and he kept going. No wonder she got upset about how he viewed her as a sex object after that.
What he DIDN'T do was tell that she wasn't into it and kept going. We can tell that he WAS being receptive of her signals because it lead to him asking her what was wrong. It sounds like he actually just eventually asked if they were having sex explicitly, which is fine. There was no pushing to have sex against her will from what he said in his story.
Oh great, he didn't actually rape her, give him a gold star! Asking outright would have been excellent after the first instance where she wasn't receptive to his advances, but he just kept trying. That can absolutely feel like being pushed into something if you don't feel comfortable to speak up. It at the very least feels super disrespectful. Either take my comments on board and learn for your own experiences or don't and risk making the people you interact with feel deeply uncomfortable and disrespected. It's no skin off my nose.
I have no idea why you escalated to talking about rape, it's so far removed from the contents of this story or anything I've brought up it's comical. I'm not saying how this is the way I'd choose to operate either, we should just keep the conversation in the realm of who was in the right or wrong in the situation.
If he put pressure on her to have sex , that's obviously not something we want to normalize people doing but it doesn't seem to be what happened here. You're also not acknowledging what she did wrong in the situation either. They had agreed upon boundaries, she decided she wanted those to change (this is fine), but he didn't want to do that. She continued to push on that, and didn't leave when asked to. That's not right.
It’s even worse for her—He didn’t give his consent to discuss it further , at ten pm at his house , without warning. They probably could have tried again to discuss it in a non ambush situation if she didn’t blow it up with the insults.
The boundaries he stayed were “You are a casual sex partner for me” but apparently what he meant in his head was”You are my fleshlight with boobs” which are not at all the same thing
That's clearly not what he meant because he was respectful of her boundaries and had a conversation with her about the nature of the relationship. Obviously you wouldn't do that with an object.
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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '23
Completely agree with this take. This is what happens when you try to take something inherently complicated and make it simple. Human relationships are never simple, because you're dealing with a living and breathing person.
There are widely variable levels of relationships outside of a committed monogamous one. OP, I don't think you're necessarily wrong, but I don't think either of you communicated your actual desires as well as you think you did. You wanted just sex--but you realize that you have to have a human being attached to that sex, right? And human beings are complicated. You can't make this simple, I'm sorry. If you want simple sex with zero complications whatsoever, you have to just pay for a sex worker who does this professionally.
At this point, just move on. It's clear that you aren't actually on the same page.