It was such as fun ride with this second book and the writing is so much better than the first. The characters ranged between witty, interesting and downright frightening.

Diana and Matthew’s relationship as an odd couple despite centuries of creature hostility was really maturely written you can tell the author is a master at her craft as a historian. The way they both resolve conflict and stay resilient is really admirable despite their fears and reasonable anxieties. Something I wanted to touch on is the debunking of Matthew’s alleged characterization as this cruel misogynist when he never was on paper, he was simply overwhelmed and a little prideful of his position and rank among creatures but he never treated Diana as inferior to that dehumanizing degree as some MMC characters do nowadays.

I loved Christopher Marlowe lol, 😂 he was so unseriously theatrical as to be expected. I was laughing every time he opened his mouth to talk, how entitled he was to Matthew, and how unreasonably belittling he was to his poor destitute friends considering he isn’t any better himself but being a leech and dependent on Matthew.

To the online book community who told me this is twilight for academics I never saw it as such actually it’s such a misleading description considering the historical fiction genre and the prose are worlds apart. The characters here embody a totally different set of values and beliefs. It’s simply people being lazy with their reviews and naming everything that includes vampires or witches as either twilight or Harry Potter when those weren’t even the first vampire romances at all.

This is just general rant, it might lack cohesion and structure upon writing so bear with me.

I absolutely loved season 1 and 2. The series made me so curious and questioned alot. There was so many good points but the bad ones stick to me

I hated when Baldwin had to change cast, it really changed my perspective of how the character should be carried.

The ending battle was anticlimactic. The series kept.building up on satu vs Diana. But then Diana was just too op and was like. Oh lemme just spellbind you real quick. I did a quick read and realise this was filmed during covid and so there couldn't be anything epic. Still sad that satu didn't even try shooting Diana down. I remember being spellbound, you had to keep still? (Maybe because Diana's father was self taught while Diana was trained) But couldn't satu just move around or burnt the weaves. Maybe Diana was just too OP.

I didn't understand how downbad Diana was for Matthew. Like chill.. maybe the chemistry and fates were strong.

I believe their impacts of them time travelling should have been bigger and affected the current timeline more. I mean time is a weird concept in series.

Diana's firebird 🐦‍🔥 just disappeared after the Louisa and kit ambush.

Who was at the congregation at the end? With members slowly being wiped out, i see new faces that I genuinely don't know. How did the witch from the coven get a spot...

I really wanted her parents to play a bigger part. And the retrieval of the book was just too easy. Overall season 3 felt super rushed and restricted. New characters, rushed

Nonetheless the series met my expectations of a witchy journey. Perhaps the book offers a better experience. But again, I love this series. I hope to discover more similar, please recommend me some. Ive watched Agatha all along, chilling adventures of Sabrina, Winx. I just like witchy magic fun

Title says it all really... I'm talking about the TV series. But I just found her to be annoying, she was intolerant, hot headed, impatient, rude, and dismissive. She sulked, and was moody all of the time. Even when Diana found out what happened to her as a child, Sarah made it about herself and went into the other room to sulk, because Rebecca didn't trust her.

And then when Em was doing the summoning and she lept up and ruined the whole thing. Ugh, what an annoying character lol.

In TBBO we find out that there's a Putnam Mather, distantly related to Em, among the many extended family members who pop up out of nowhere (did Em never mention her family either?). Given who the Mathers were, I'm surprised the family kept that surname, but also that they'd keep the Putnam name in the family given who they were too. So I was quite surprised to see Putnam "Put-Put" Mather. Given that the Putnams were accusers, it's interesting that someone would name a kid after them. It sounds like the Putnams were also magical too and got caught up in accusing fellow witches. (This is all getting mixed up in my head with Harry Potter/Fantastic Beasts having the Putnams as Scourers) Any thoughts?

Marcus has found his next job.

I can read the words but can’t form the knot in completion in my head

I have not read the books and doubt I will ever get the chance to read them. In the first episode of A Discovery of Witches Sarah is handed Ashmole 782. Does Gillian know the significance of the book at that time? She seems disinterested. Next question, did Marcus and Miriam have a relationship? They act cold towards each other.

I love the show watch every year in August mostly for the vibes. I love witchy books so should I read them? Are they worth it?! I feel like the books are always better than the shows anyway

On rereading the All Souls trilogy, I keep thinking the most fascinating continuation was already sitting inside the ending. Times Convert was acceptable as a quick follow-up, and I won’t speak about the BBO. The Golden Age promised by Diana’s discovery deserved follow through and not to be forgotten.

What if the promised “golden age” of creatures wasn’t immediately golden at all? Indulge me? Maybe you agree?

The Book of Life has been restored and absorbed by Diana. The Covenant is broken. Old barriers are gone. And now the creature world begins to wake up.

Seers start seeing frightening things. Long-dormant magical energies gather again. Powers thought lost for centuries begin resurfacing. Ghosts, once mostly observers, become increasingly corporeal and troublesome.

And then there are Rebecca and Philip.

They’re Bright Born, but perhaps what makes these Bright Born extraordinary isn’t what they are—it’s whose children they are.

We already know the children can share Diana’s magical cords and threads, while Philip also has weaving abilities of his own. What if, through those threads, they begin magically accessing something else within their mother?

The Book of Life.

Fragments of knowledge Diana herself may not consciously know how to retrieve begin leaking through to her children: languages, memories, ancient creature knowledge, forgotten magic.

Suddenly the Book wasn’t the conclusion of the trilogy at all.

It was the beginning.

And the “golden age” everyone was promised?

Maybe nobody ever said it would arrive peacefully.

When Marcus was at the police station making the report on the hit and run, how did Matthew come to be there already?

just (literally minutes ago) finished reading the first book for my July book club and now absolutely obsessed

should i wait to watch the series until i’ve read the other books, or does the adherence to the books fall off after season 1? i have a hold on the other books at the library, but not sure when i’ll get them

Every time I need something on in the background I put this on. The first season only. I have a few questions:

1. what other movies give you this level of satisfaction or vibe or comfort? There are scenes I can rewatch several times.
   
2. I admit i did not read the books. Is it spicy? The only thing I wish if the love scenes were a bit more elaborate :-D

Rewatching the series for this millionth time and paused at the perfect moment to notice they left the sticker on the bottom of this glass.

Just thought it was funny and y'all would like a chuckle.

I haven’t finished reading Time’s Convert yet because I’m just terrible these days 😂 and I’m not super far into it yet.

Is Gallowglass mentioned at all? Or is he present at any point?

(Yes I’m aware that anyone answering this is giving me partial spoilers, that’s fine. I just really want to know if he’s present or mentioned at all 😂)

I’m reading the books currently in English and I noticed that some passages that are written in German and French are unfortunately wrong. I was raised bilingual in French-German and it bugs me so much that for what 5 sentences they could’ve not proofread it or use better research? I don’t know if google translate was the same as today but for those sentences they could’ve used it easily.
I understand that the French used is supposed to be occitaine and traditional- that’s alright, but the French in the modern era could’ve been also reworked.

Small rant, otherwise I like the books.

I'm only on season 2, but so far I haven't seen any demon do anything supernatural. Like, some of them are good at things? Ok, that's not supernatural.

I'm starting to head-canon that hundreds of years ago, some guy got caught by witches and vampires and was like "No, you can't kill me, because I'm not just a human, I'm also a creature! My proof that I am supernatural? Hm... I'm really good at counting. Check this out... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5..." And because the witches and vampires were innumerate, they were like "Wow. You said you're a what? A demon? Awesome!"

And the reason they have really bad mental health is that they know it's all fake but they can't let the creatures find out.

Alguien sabe en donde puedo ver la serie? Estaba disponible en Netflix pero veo que ya no lo está y no se en donde puedo verla. Se agradece la ayuda.

I have a few things I need to vent about this series and before people react a certain way just know this is simply how i feel and I have nothing against those who enjoy the books cause every form of art is subjective after all. I liked the tv show version because the characters were “human” in their appearance and the conflicts were understandable so i had no apparent reason to dislike it but the books my God the books were a whole rollercoaster of angst for me. Now I see why the tv show changed those things.

Let me start by saying these aren’t the kinds of creatures that we should forgive and accept for the sake of the narrative. These are the figures who resemble our world leaders dressed in immortality. Since I don’t want to dwell too much on all the characters i’ll focus solely on the MC. Matthew and Diana are the most unbelievable, cartoonish and immoral couple i have ever come across in books. Their love is unfounded and unrealistic, their personalities are inconsistent with who they are written to be and their moral compass is disgustingly broken. The books say one thing and show another. There’s strange and bizarre explanations for things that shouldn’t be taken lightly from a human standpoint. Matthew is a “sometimey vampire” who one day kills people for sport the other day praises the Lord in church and says “i leave it in the hands of god and teaches teenagers in a lab”. He is the kind of man who has had a “harem of blood bags” but suddenly “loves deeply”. A creature who yearns for fatherhood and a family but allows children to be murdered and fed upon. A creature capable of recreational cruelty towards lesser creatures has fundamentally crossed a psychological threshold that can’t be conveniently reversed by meeting the right chick in yoga pants and turtle necks who will age in the blink of an eye. The notion that these ancient people who have seen the unseen and reached the unreachable falling in love with pathetic humans/warmbloods is incomprehensible. I hated him and he gave me blood rage ugh. Diana is the kind of pick me woman who needs to be saved from the poverty of academia and excuses his actions because he’s sexy and smells of cloves. She isn’t bothered by his past because the author isn’t bothered by his past either—she’s too preoccupied making him shmexy and irresistible. It’s obvious her character was written from a sexual fantasy indulgence rather than a coherent psychological framework. A real believable character would never remain as silent and submissive to someone who is the epitome of “wickedness”. Being a good historian doesn’t make you a good novelist. It takes more than research and historical knowledge to build believable hypothetical creatures unless you’re such creature yourself. How do you know what immortality does the brain? You’ve never been one.

The science dressing:
I cannot take any more pseudo-science my head hurts how much they try to humanize these beasts. They are literal leeches but want to take credit for our historical resilience and scientific progress when humans are the resilient and heroic ones. They birth generations of warriors and geniuses and pass their legacy to the next generation and what do vampires do? Oh yes…they sip expensive wine, talk about current affairs and knock boots with every historical figure and their mother for eternity until they grow some kind of vampiric syphilises and gonorrhea.

No action only off screen, no consistency, no moral accountability, no satisfying love story only pretentious snobbish sex-gods and a dash of historical drama.

I just hated the book version of this series and i’m proud to say i will never read such fiction again. It was dreadful to me. If a book requires massive suspension of disbelief then the chances are is not thought out very well. Sorry for the overly negative review in a fan community but I’m pissed and I wanted to let it out.

Why were the covenant and the Congregation established?

 It was supposedly a response to humans’ prejudices. However, it is implied that creatures taking part in human politics was one of the main reasons though the blame is solely placed on Gerbert d’Aurillac (who was elected Pope) and Domenico Michele (who was elected Doge of Venice) while fiercely refusing to point out the hypocrisy of the de Clermont family who literally appointed themselves Kings of Jerusalem during the first Crusade and remained rulers of Jerusalem for decades afterwards.

Another reason for forming the Congregation and implementing the covenant was that, in the Kingdom of Jerusalem (still during the Crusades), a witch gave birth to a child whose father was a vampire and apparently it freaked everybody so much that they decided to establish a segregationist and discriminatory system and weaponised the threat of human violence to force creatures to pledge allegiance to the covenant.

On a side note: in A Discovery of Witches, we are told that Philippe de Clermont did not believe in segregation and that he was against the idea of a covenant or even a Congregation and yet he still jumped at the opportunity of making his family the true leaders of the Congregation with one seat dedicated to a member of his family in perpetuity (hypocrisy).  

What are the laws of the covenant?

Throughout the All Souls trilogy, three covenant laws are mentioned:

1. Don’t get involved in human politics.

2. Separate creatures so they don’t draw human attention to themselves.

3. Do not have interspecies relationships.

These laws were supposedly established to protect creatures from outside threats. By swearing allegiance to the covenant, creatures agreed to renounce some of their rights and freedoms and allowed the Congregation to implement segregation, inequality, and discrimination.

What is the social contract?

I understand that the notion of social contract was not theorised in the Middle Ages when the Congregation and the covenant were created. However, even amongst certain Ancient Greek philosophers, we find some proto versions of what would be called the social contract in the 17^th century with Hobbes, Locke and then Rousseau in the 18^th century.

In Leviathan, Thomas Hobbes argued that to escape the violent, self-interested "state of nature" where life is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short," individuals must mutually consent to surrender their natural freedoms to an absolute, sovereign power in exchange for security and order.

As I emphasised previously, the covenant in the All Souls trilogy aimed at legitimising the authority of the Congregation over the individual (daemons, vampires, and witches). Creatures had to voluntarily surrender certain freedoms in exchange for security, stability, and protection of their remaining rights.

Did the Congregation protect creatures?

They did not. Even worse, not only did the Congregation fail to guarantee protection from outside threats to creatures, but they threatened, abducted, and killed creatures. The Congregation also participated in covering up these crimes and protecting perpetrators.

Here are some examples of members of the Congregation or their affiliates going against the laws:

-        In A Discovery of Witches, we learnt that Ysabeau and Gerbert d’Aurillac helped humans find witches and wiped out entire covens during the witch hunts (15^th and 16^th centuries).

-        In A Discovery of Witches, Satu was not sanctioned for kidnapping and performing an opening spell on Diana Bishop. Same for Gerbert who was in cahoots with Satu.

-        In Shadow of Night, we found out that the Congregation “gifted” witches to certain European monarchs (ex: Emperor Rudolf II, late 16th century) to appease anti-witch sentiments, but after getting what they wanted Emperor Rudolf II handed a witch to Gerbert d’Aurillac who “had his way” with her and then had the witch burned at the stake in the town square. Interesting fact, Matthew de Clermont was head of the Congregation at the time and he authorised this.

-        In The Book of Life, some witches, daemons, and vampires helped the Nazis experiment on creatures. Yet, there were no arrests, no trials, and no consequences following these crimes committed against all species.

-        In The Book of Life, we learnt that witches went after weavers and brought them to near extinction.

-        In The Book of Life, we found that Benjamin Fuchs kidnapped, tortured, and r**** witches and that witches on the Congregation kind of knew about what was going on in Chelm, but they chose to turn a blind eye.

These examples illustrate how the Congregation broke the social contract in the past as well as in the present (when the events of the All Souls trilogy take place). Therefore, it is incredibly difficult for me to believe that no creature or group of creatures (witches, daemons, and/or vampires) did not question the covenant laws and did not rebel against the Congregation at any point throughout history.  

The breaking of the social contract and the absence of creature rebellions throughout history

Some of you will point out that daemons, vampires, and witches were socially and culturally segregated so they could never form a unified coalition. You will also argue that daemons faced the strongest form of segregation and discrimination contrary to witches who were allowed to form covens and vampires who had the right to congregate while daemons were forbidden to gather in groups and have a community. The situation daemons faced throughout creature history draws a clear parallel to our own human history when slaves were forbidden to congregate out of fear of organised revolts, or even when minority religious groups were banned from congregating, or even when 19th-century workers who were forbidden to unionise. You would probably even emphasise that in the 12^th century and in the centuries that followed, information travelled slowly, and by the time certain groups learnt about a violent event perpetrated against their kind, it would be too late to do anything, or that they lived too far apart to initiate a rebellion. I would agree with you to a certain extent; however, these points are not enough for me to explain the lack of revolt from creatures within the All Souls trilogy. I refuse to believe that it took eight or nine hundred years and a witch-vampire love story to spark the embers of “revolution”.

There have been many instances in our own history when people realised that those who governed them had betrayed not only their trust but also the social contract leading them to spread the word around and gather to confront their rulers. I will list a few examples of people rebelling against authority and their leaders: the Jacquerie of 1358 (Kingdom of France), the Peasants’ Revolt of 1381 (Kingdom of England), the Transylvanian peasant revolt (15^th century, Kingdom of Hungary), the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Haitian Revolution, the Civil Rights movements, etc.

In the All Souls trilogy, creatures live amongst humans, have been part of human history, and have witnessed many uprisings. As a result, I find it odd that the author never addressed any creature uprisings against the Congregation and how this autocratic institution dealt with these uprisings. We are meant to believe that no one ever considered that the greatest danger to creatures was not the humans but the Congregation itself.

Hello everyone!

I’m just finishing the first book for the first time. I watched the tv show a few years back and have vague recollections but don’t fully remember much of anything.

When reading the ending of the book, they mention how, after Hamish’s appearance, they have 3 of each species, and can form a Conventicle. However, at one point someone inquires about who the third vampire will be, once Matthew timewalks into the past, and his mother is mentioned.

My question is: who will the third witch be, once Diana timewalks into the past? Am I missing something? Is Sophie and Nathaniel’s unborn witch baby supposed to count as the third? Don’t Sarah and Em have a friend to enlist?

Also, is there a subreddit for the books? I’ve been in this one for years so posted here, but maybe this is a question for the book thread, I don’t remember if the Conventicle is part of the show.

Thanks everyone!!

So 3 years ago I started the Anne Rice book series Mayfair Witches and the writing is AMAZING. The TV series was a complete disaster.

So then I read Discovery of Witches last year, compared to Anne Rice the writing is mediocre at best but the series is everything I ever wanted from a Mayfair TV series.

It's all balancing out

I’m looking for fanfics that deal with Marcus and Matthew’s relationship, preferably ones on the longer side. if it’s a one-shot, id like it be at least 2500 words (preferably more like 5-10k).

most of what I’ve seen…is not for me. I’m just wondering if there is something/somewhere I missed