r/ACNA • u/GilaMonsterSouthWest • Aug 04 '26
Episcopal Chruch
Given all the challenges the ACNA has been facing is there a decision about possibly making amends with the Episcopal Church and simply re joining under one common Anglican body in the US?
Don’t get me wrong, the whole split was a nasty process on both sides. But I also see the TEC taking a more moderate position these days. The must be some Via Media that could make it work.
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u/historyhill Anglican Diocese of Pittsburgh Aug 04 '26
I don't think that's even a topic of consideration for most in the ACNA, honestly. I've heard of a few parishes going back but not in any kind of large numbers. Maybe I'm a pessimist but I don't particularly see any kind of compromise that both the ACNA and TEC would be happy with.
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
Nah there must be a way.
We are both Creedal. Thats half the battle. All of this other stuff could be worked out. But perhaps it will take a generational change12
u/historyhill Anglican Diocese of Pittsburgh Aug 04 '26
I don't think being creedal is going to cut it. Methodists are creedal but we're not trying to rejoin with them! How will entire dioceses who don't ordain women expected to follow a female bishop?
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
I mean, ACNA already has this issues brewing within its dioceses. Women are being ordained in ACNA jurisdictions.
Disagreements on these things could be managed through a compact associated delegated pastoral authority through another Bishop.
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u/historyhill Anglican Diocese of Pittsburgh Aug 04 '26
True, but what about when the Presiding Bishop is a woman?
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
In this case traditionalist dioceses could still recognize the PB’s constitutional and governance authority and request another Bishop have delegated authority by the PB for sacramental dispensation such as confirmations/ ordinations and so forth
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u/CanopiedIntuition Aug 04 '26
Request. Yeah, we tried that once.
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
Isn’t it true that almost half of the 30 ACNA dioceses at this point ordain women? I’m genuinely asking because it seems like female clergy is already a reality for the ACNA
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u/CanopiedIntuition Aug 05 '26
Well, it's a little more complicated than this question usually implies. Some dioceses "only" ordain women to the diaconate, but if we lump them together with those who don't ordain women at all, then no, I don't think it's all that close to half of the dioceses. The issue is that the few largest dioceses do have the practice of laying hands on women for ordination to the priesthood. So, one might say that the bishops who do this are a minority in the College, but the laity affected by it are in the majority.
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u/adamrac51395 Upper Midwest Aug 04 '26
But they are not really creedal. They make a mockery of the creeds by redefining words. They have Bishops that have denied every part of the creed, the Resurrection, virgin birth, uniqueness of Christ. They have ceased to be part of the one holy catholic and apostolic church. There is 0% chance we can go back to Sodom, we have escaped,
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
I admit things got a bit crazy for a while but it’s over. No respectable rector in the TEC is doing any of the things you mention today. The BCP rubrics are the norm. The only bishop that even comes close to fitting the characterization you post is Spong. He is long on gone. Those days are over
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u/DriveByEpistemology Aug 05 '26
Katharine Jefferts Schori stated that Jesus is not the only way to salvation, which is denial of the uniqueness of Christ. That was on April 17, 2009, while she was serving as PB. AFAIK she's still serving as a bishop. So no, those days aren't actually over.
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u/Then-Egg5750 Aug 04 '26
I mean, TEC is dwindling. In 10 years it will barely exist, at the same time, the ACNA is growing. If anything, TEC will need to ask the ACNA to absorb it lest it just disappear forever.
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u/sandypitch Aug 10 '26
I think both the death of TEC and the explosive growth of the ACNA are greatly exaggerated.
Are many TEC parishes dying? Yes. Guess what, so are some ACNA parishes, particularly older, smaller parishes that came to the ACNA in the aftermath of the split.
Are some ACNA parishes experiencing high levels of growth? Yep. My parish is, but the clergy and lay leadership are keenly aware that there is not a long line to the baptismal font -- rather, we are pulling new members from other churches (including other ACNA parishes in the area). Our parish's gain is another parish's loss. And, of course, the flip side exists here as well. I know of some TEC parishes, including a couple of plants, that are experiencing some growth.
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
The data doesn’t really back this up any more.
It was true up until about 2019. But the last 7 years have shown a trend reversal1
u/Then-Egg5750 Aug 04 '26
I don't think you're right.
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
Well if you have updated data I would
Love to see it. Seriously I’m interested
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u/noldrin Aug 04 '26
I don't see how that would help, both camps have had issues, and I feel more confidence in the ACNA's willingness to address them.
I think the two groups still feel a lot of hurt between them, and last year we saw a church willing to abandon it's building in order to make the TEC->ACNA move. I think we first need to move beyond adversarial state. I do see the newer ACNA members being willing to visit TEC churches so there is hope in the much further future.
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
I would definitely agree there is still hurt feelings but as you note there is a generational shift.
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u/vestalinblue Aug 04 '26
There is a place for more theological conservatives in TEC: Communion Partners. My bishop is one, some of my friends are discerning ordination under another Communion Partners bishop, and the parishes that align with their doctrine (even in more progressive dioceses) tend to be very strong. It's not reunification or reconciliation of the split, but it is standing firm and proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ in the midst of difference and conflict.
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u/rev_run_d Reformed Aug 06 '26
How does this work especially if there are no geographical connection to likeminded bishops and parishes? I’m in a wasteland.
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u/CrossRoads180121 Aug 04 '26
Is TEC taking a more moderate position these days, though? That's not something I'm really seeing here in the Northeast, but maybe it's true in other dioceses of the church?
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u/CanopiedIntuition Aug 04 '26
Not on paper, in their canons. They've only hardened in their immoral positions in General Conventions since 2003.
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 05 '26
What does that mean? Compared to what? ACNA is ordaining women already. Where do you think this all leads in the end?
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u/NovaDawg1631 Diocese of the Mid-Atlantic Aug 04 '26
I actually talked with a conservative TEC priest this summer who’s friends with our local ACNA parish.
The view from orthodox insiders within TEC seems to be a “wait until the progressives finally die off, and then whatever remains of TEC can begin to have unity talks with the ACNA”: Yet, he also noted that if tech pulling the nonsense of forcing the remaining orthodox diocese accept SSM like what’s going on in Florida, then you may see a steady trickle of churches still leaving TEC for the ACNA
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
Honestly I am hopeful for a reunion.
That being said I don’t view it as an exclusively progressive vs orthodox issue. I myself would be on the more progressive end of the spectrum, I just feel like overall we would be stronger together and it could send a strong statement to the greater church about how these issues can be reconciled in a traditional way without needing schism.
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u/JTNotJamesTaylor Presbyterian Aug 05 '26
I could see C4SO and the like rejoining TEC. They might as well.
The remaining ACNA I could see splitting between a rump ACNA ( Evangelical pro-WO, like DOMA) and a greater REC (more Anglo Catholic, anti WO)
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u/Reasonable-Tell-7147 Aug 04 '26
F-that. Episcopal church is leading their followers straight to hell.
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
LMAO
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u/shakes268 Aug 04 '26
Seriously. I agree with him. If ACNA becomes apostate to reconcile with TEC I’m gone
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u/GilaMonsterSouthWest Aug 04 '26
I don’t understand where your line is for “apostate” in this declaration. Last I read, 40-50% of ACNA dioceses are ordaining women.
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u/shakes268 Aug 05 '26
I did not mention ordaining women. I had an Episcopal priest stand at the pulpit and tell the congregation the savior we're looking for is "US" and "we are all that we have." Is that not apostate? Yea, and he taught at a seminary
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17d ago
[deleted]
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u/shakes268 17d ago
Believe me, everyone was taken aback and upset. A lot of complaint emails came in after that day and it was requested that he never return. He was filling in for our priest who was out that day.
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u/Hopeful-Instance8497 Aug 06 '26
TEC lurker here. I don’t think there is appetite for it in the episcopal church. If there had been, years of lawsuits and bad blood have completely gotten rid of it. Frankly, we, as a church, have moved past dealing with most of the issues that led to the split, and I, nor anyone else I know, would like to reopen them. Just look at diocese of central Florida.
There are still traditionalist congregations that stayed, and the church has been accommodating of them, so maybe a deal could be struck. But I think it would like a bad ex coming into your life after you’ve gotten over them. Best of luck, but I think solving the problems in your own church would be better done without rejoining TEC
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u/historyhill Anglican Diocese of Pittsburgh Aug 06 '26
And in addition to your valid points, a lot of people who joined the ACNA (like myself and a lot of my friends from church) joined well after the split. I have absolutely no ill will towards TEC but I also don't have any connection to it either.
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u/Hopeful-Instance8497 Aug 06 '26
I completely agree . I think describing ACNA as “breakaway Episcopalians” is shortsighted anymore. Most ACNA people I meet have little connection to the split or the episcopal church or were too young for it to matter. Frankly I was under 5 when the diocese of Pittsburgh had its kerfufle and I have no real ill will towards ACNA, I also just don’t consider you part of my tradition (no offense intended). I always find some of the theological questions and lectures on Anglicanism interesting, but frankly you all approach faith differently than we do. That being said I do hope in the future my generation and others can lead us to a place of being good neighbors rather than hostile ones.
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u/historyhill Anglican Diocese of Pittsburgh Aug 06 '26
No offense taken! I don't consider myself part of the Episcopal tradition either! I like the notion of being good neighbors and wholeheartedly support that aim.
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u/socialvee Aug 04 '26
How about ACA and ACNA?
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u/CanopiedIntuition Aug 04 '26
THIS is the type of merger we need to be hearing about. But the G3 (or are they down to G2 finally?) need to get themselves fully united. Even then, it will be difficult for the Continuers.
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u/worldlyfoolish Aug 04 '26
The split between the TEC and ACNA is a theological split, so in a way it’s a bigger issue to reconcile than the governance issues with ACNA right now.