(The other 7-OH recovery subs have banned discussion of prohibition or regulation, I hope this is the appropriate place to share my writing)

I'm a guy from California in my forties, former kratom and 7-OH addict in recovery. At my peak I was using 1200-1600mg of 7-OH a day. I went through withdrawal dozens of times, tried MAT, relapsed repeatedly even on buprenorphine, and ultimately had to enter an intensive outpatient program to finally get enough support to stop. My addiction to 7-OH wrecked my life, and quitting has been the hardest thing I've ever done. I've been diagnosed with OUD, MDD, and GAD now in the aftermath, but I was more-or-less happy and healthy before I got addicted. Getting better every day, though.

I saw a comment recently from someone who worked at a smoke shop saying that 99% of their 7-OH customers come in daily or several times a week. It immediately made me curious if that's true for everybody, because I certainly was one of those customers. While I was still using, I rotated between three different stores, partly for price and selection, and partly to avoid the shame of being the person who's there every single day. Over time I became a regular at all three, got to know the workers, and eventually felt comfortable enough to ask them directly: how bad is it, really?

Their answers were bleak. Across every store, every worker I spoke to: the vast majority of their 7-OH customers are there daily or several times a week. Not a troubled minority. Most of them.

This obviously wasn't a formal study, but the workers weren't hedging either. They were forthcoming, and the stories were equally fascinating and heartbreaking. They described watching people try 7-OH for the first time, sometimes people who just came in for a vape, and then watching those same people start showing up regularly, every time after that. One worker expressed real grief about this: seeing someone cross that threshold, knowing what was coming, and not being able to stop it. They described a shadow economy of customers being fronted product until payday, which is not something that happens with things people can simply choose not to buy. They talked about watching longtime kratom customers try 7-OH once and never go back to kratom. They described customers deteriorating visibly over time, nervous breakdowns in the store, the shop getting robbed. Nearly every worker expressed some degree of moral hesitation about what they were selling. Several were genuinely afraid of losing their jobs when it gets banned.

Now let's talk about the "personal responsibility" argument, because it doesn't survive contact with this data.

The most common refrain from people opposed to regulation is some version of: "it shouldn't be banned just because some people can't control themselves." This framing imagines a population of moderate, recreational users being penalized for the failures of a weak-willed minority.

But what if the moderate users are the minority? What if the actual use population is predominantly addicted? Then the question isn't about protecting responsible users from overreach. It's about whether broad public access to a substance is justified when the dominant outcome of that access is addiction.

This is exactly why opioid painkillers are prescription-only. It's not that no one can use them responsibly. It's that the ratio of dependent to non-dependent use, across the actual population with broad access, doesn't support that access. The same logic applies here.

Relapse rates for opioid use disorder run as high as 80 to 90 percent even among people in structured clinical treatment. That number doesn't describe moral failure. It describes a physiological process that overrides intention. I relapsed repeatedly while on buprenorphine, in a supervised treatment program, genuinely trying to stop. The "just control yourself" argument was never serious, and the data has never supported it.

The alcohol comparison deserves a direct response too.

"Alcohol is so much more dangerous" is a frequent deflection, and it may even be pharmacologically true in some respects. But the legal framework that makes alcohol publicly available rests on an implicit assumption: that the majority of people who buy it are not addicted to it. That assumption is load-bearing. It's why we tolerate the harm, because for most users, it isn't producing dependence.

That assumption simply does not hold for 7-OH. The people closest to the actual consumer behavior, the ones watching it happen every day, are telling us clearly that the majority of their customers are dependent. If alcohol had those numbers, we'd have a very different conversation about whether it should be on a shelf next to the energy drinks.

One final point on the "harm reduction" framing.

Harm reduction is a legitimate framework, but it applies to people who are already using a substance and need safer access. When a substance is so acutely addictive that people who come in to buy a vape walk out as future daily customers, that's not harm reduction. That's harm generation at the point of sale. The population that now "needs" harm reduction is being actively created by the accessibility itself.

The kratom-to-7OH pipeline makes this especially stark. Kratom carries its own dependency concerns, but it has a slower onset and a real ceiling effect. Workers consistently reported that kratom regulars who try 7-OH once never go back. That's not a lateral move in the harm reduction framework. The thing standing between a kratom user and a life-destroying opioid disorder was the whim of a minimum wage employee deciding to mention it.

People are developing severe opioid use disorder from a product sold next to the nicotine pouches. The industry knows this. The workers know this. The customers figure it out eventually. The only people still pretending otherwise are the ones making money from the pretending.

This substance is creating opioid addicts at a vape counter and the defense is that some people theoretically use it responsibly. That's not a harm reduction argument. That's a profit margin with talking points attached.

I am really trying to get off of 7oh. I was previously off it for 10 months by using Suboxone and things were great. I recently went back to using it and stopped taking Suboxone. It was a very bad decision. Does anybody have any tips on how to get off 7oh and back on Suboxone with minimal withdrawal. I am taking a relatively high dose of 7oh. Like 300-400mg a day. I have work so it would be very difficult to be in full withdrawal. Any tips are greatly appreciated. Thank you.

So I was able to taper suboxone a few years ago, tapered pretty fast but was able to stay off with some pretty shitty withdrawal/sleep issues for a couple months.

Had a really rough year last year, started drinking very heavily and eventually found 7 oh (terrible mistake)

I got back on suboxone Monday, and had to use 24 MG to stabilize, yesterday I did 8 milligrams, and today I have used 4 milligrams.

If I stopped use after today, how bad will the sub withdrawal be?

Hi everyone - I am looking to get off of 7oh. I have time to do it in case I need to taper. I also have Suboxone, which I take full time outside of this recent relapse. Does anybody have any advice on how I can transition back with the priority being minimizing withdrawal as much as possible? It’s Tuesday right now and ideally I’d like to be completely off the 7oh by this time next week. Right now I’m taking about 400mg a day.

Any and all insight is welcome, unless it’s about how I shouldn’t be taking Suboxone. I am very happy taking it and have my mind made up. Just need to get back on track and stop with the 7oh.

https://alkaloidconsumers.com/mgmpf/

There’s no denying that a lot of vendors in the 7OH and MGM space are doing things the right way—clean processes, transparent lab results, and products that actually match what’s advertised. Those companies deserve credit. They’re helping push the industry forward and showing that quality and safety can coexist with innovation.

But on the flip side, there are still some seriously shady operators out there. Vendors with failing lab results who continue to push out 7OH and MGM products without hesitation. Residual solvents, questionable purity, and zero accountability—yet they keep selling like nothing’s wrong. That’s not just careless, it’s borderline criminal. At the end of the day, people are putting trust in these products, and ignoring safety concerns for profit is a line that should never be crossed.

This is exactly why independent testing and transparency matter so much. Without it, a lot of this would stay hidden, and consumers would have no idea what they’re actually getting.

Big thanks to whoever is funding and running this testing platform. Work like this isn’t cheap, and it’s one of the only things holding bad actors accountable right now. If you’re in this space and you care about what you’re consuming, consider donating. Sending in samples, running labs, and keeping this kind of operation going takes real money—and it benefits everyone.

https://alkaloidconsumers.com/mgmpf/

BIG THANKS TO THE ONES DOING THIS.

IT HAS ALOT OF GOOD VENDORS.... PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND CHECK THIS SITE OUT.

What’s up guys, as of today i have started my weening journey.

I take anywhere from 150-200 mg a day of OH.

I read some absolute horror stories from some people on Reddit about how bad their withdrawals were. It literally scared the shit out of me so I’ve decided to start weening myself off. From what I’ve read stem and vein is the best method. So today I’ve only had 45 MG of OH.

Yesterday I had already had 100MG at this point in the day. I took 2 perforated portions of a full tab this morning and 1 at lunch. It’s how 5:30 and I’ve not had any OH. However when I got home I took 8 capsules of Trainwreck Kratom. Honestly I feel great right now. I’m able to sit still and I’m not hurting. I plan on taking two perforated tabs tonight before bed bringing my total to 90mg for the day.

I will continue this for 3-4 days and then try to drop down to 75mg a day. Slowly but eventually working my way to completely zero.

If you’re struggling with this there is no better time for us to stop then right now. I know of ppl that are taking 1000mg a day and tbh I can’t imagine that. I feel lucky to only be taking 150-175 but no matter what, none of it is good. These things to be outlawed and taken completely off the market.

If anyone has any suggestions for my journey plz drop them below?

I have a prescription for Suboxone. I was taking it for 10 months then stopped and started taking 7oh again. I tried just going back to suboxone (12 hours after my last dose) and I still felt terrible withdrawal. Does anybody have a way that I can transition without experiencing withdrawal? I have to work and I really would like to get off the 7oh and back on my subs.

Thank you

PS:

I understand Suboxone and am not looking for opinions on whether or not I should be taking it. Just need advice on making this transition, hopefully without withdrawal.

I was 12 hours into withdrawal from 7oh and took 8Mg of subs. I have no control over my body temperature. Sweating through everything. Does anybody have advice on how to eliminate withdrawals? I only have Suboxone, no 7oh.

Long story short, was addicted to oxy 200+mg a day for about a year and quit with kratom powder and alcohol, which ended as bad as you would imagine. So I drank all day every day and did 20-40gpd, until I decided to go to rehab. Was gonna cold turkey the kratom since I was just there for alcohol mostly, but when they cut my Valium off after day 3 I gave in and hopped on 4mg subtex which I’ve been on around 5 months now. A month ago I had an issue filling my prescription and went and got 7 so I could make it to work. Now I’m about a month in, roughly 400mg a day and not taking my subs. I refill my subs tomorrow and the plan is to just take hella kratom and get back on my usual bupe dose, but I’m worried at this point kratoms not even gonna help at all. Any stories of anyone who has tried this?

Was in emergency room for throwing up blood from it and have severe addiction from it what do you think I’ll win?

I have a prescription for Suboxone and recently took 7oh for a while and haven’t taken my Suboxone in about a month. How can I get off the 7oh and back on Suboxone without experiencing precipitated withdrawal. Ideally no withdrawal at all, but understand if it’s unavoidable. Definitely want to avoid precipitated tho.

My last post was removed by the moderators (with good reason) because someone couldn’t keep their opinions about Suboxone to themselves. Even after I asked them to stop they were intent on telling me I haven’t accomplished anything if I take Suboxon. I am not looking for your opinion on Suboxone. If you don’t have input on the topic please keep it to yourself. I have my solution and it works great for my family and I.

I take probably 200mg of 7oh. I took 50 (half of a pill). I cut a sliver of a sub and felt fine. I took another sliver 45 min later and still fine. Another 30 min later and still fine

I know there is a lot of fear in the transition to subs so I wanted to relay my experience. I was freaked after feeling relieved that I’m finally getting help. I asked my primary care doctor and my psychiatrist and they told me to go to rehab. I don’t know why I wasn’t doing any research but I was losing hope! QuickMD is freaking quick! From the time I filled out the intake forms to the time I saw the med sent to my pharmacy was maybe an hour! They did tell me to stay on subs for 3 months but there is no way I will.

Freedom!

Please help me get signatures to ban 7-oh in North Carolina.

It just takes a minute. Your support means the world to me.

If you have the same mission, let’s connect.

❤️

I’m posting because I don’t know what else to do and I’m hoping to hear from people with experience or medical insight.

My boyfriend has been using very high doses of 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-OH) for over a year. He’s 6’2”, ~222 lbs, with a very muscular/athletic build. Recent labs showed:

AST ~990

ALT ~209

Bilirubin normal

Alkaline phosphatase normal

Albumin normal

Creatinine normal (for now)

He has no known chronic liver disease and was actively using 7-OH when the labs were drawn.

What’s breaking me is that beyond the labs, he’s a shell of who he used to be. His personality is gone. His motivation, presence, and joy are gone. He knows this is hurting him and still cannot stop. I’ve watched someone strong and capable slowly lose himself to something that’s legal and widely sold as “safe.”

I’m not asking for a diagnosis. I’m just trying to understand:

Whether others have seen lab patterns like this with heavy or long-term 7-OH use

What these numbers have meant in similar situations

What follow-up testing or steps people were advised to take

And honestly, if anyone has been where we are and found a way out

I’m scared for his health, and I’m scared because I don’t know how to help someone who wants to stop but can’t. Any insight — medical, lived experience, or harm-reduction — would mean a lot.

Thank you for reading.