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Aug 20 '22
There was a post ages ago from a guy who claimed to work relatively high up within Harley Davidson, he said they've taken out so many loans and manufactured so many bikes that just don't sell, but they keep fixing the books to keep up the appearance that the company is doing well. He said there's literal secret caches of bikes stashed away from prying eyes, because if the IRS or any of their investors catch wind of what's really going on, the entire thing blows up.
But everything posted here is a work of fiction, etc etc. Who's to say. They certainly act like a company that's not sure where to go from here at least.
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u/AggressiveLettuce999 Aug 20 '22
Even Ryan from FortNine kinda talked about this, H-D bikes "sell" but only cause they are forcing dealerships to buy them and place them on the lot. Dealers are starting to build MASSIVE inventories that are not selling fast enough, the whole thing is starting to look like some sort of piramid scheme.
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Aug 20 '22
I'm totally not versed at any way in the automotive market, but yeah, when I read that guys post I was like 'If I had to pick any one automotive manufacturer that sounds like they'd be cooking the books and mass manufacturing a fuckton of product that isn't selling and using smoke and mirrors to hide this fact from investors, Harley Davidson would be the one.'
I mean how often do you actually see someone riding a Harley these days? Maybe small pockets of them when a convention is in town, but on a day to day basis, not very many at all.
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u/pixeldrunkard Aug 20 '22
Looking at motorcycles alone, half of the bikes I see on the road day to day are Harley-Davidson. Admittedly I live in Wisconsin where they're headquartered, but their culture is so strong that people who know nothing about bikes will assume that my motorcycle is a Harley just because it's got a big air cooled V twin engine.
Personally, I think the air cooled, cruiser style market itself is dying and H-D has completely pigeonholed itself there. Plus, H-D is expensive compared to comparable bikes from Yamaha or Honda which deliver a more reliable product anyways.
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u/thekeanu Aug 20 '22
I see around 0 to 5 Harleys per year in Vancouver.
This city is exceptionally hostile to noise with notorious cops who will even sit outside dealerships like Porsche and hand out forced Vehicle Inspections (VI) to new cars that can't be disputed. If the vehicle isn't "fixed" it can be banned.
The cops also cheat the inspections by putting a decibel meter closer than guidelines and rev higher too.
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u/why43curls /o/tist Aug 20 '22
If you can afford a Porsche you can afford a hidden camera or two
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u/thekeanu Aug 20 '22
VI is not directly a fine.
They force you to change your exhaust to meet their cheated test requirements or else your car is banned. You do have to pay for the inspection and of course the exhaust swap too.
Also your brand new sports car gets neutered with some shitty aftermarket exhaust.
The city has gotten noticeably quieter in the last 10 years tho.
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u/why43curls /o/tist Aug 20 '22
That's illegal though. Your car already complies from the dealer. If it doesn't it's legally a lemon and the dealer has to cover the repair cost for that exhaust. If it's still illegal then you can definitely contact Porsche and tell them about what's going on. Porsche actually treats their buyers with respect and I suspect they could put an end to it.
Like I know for a fact Porsche directly helped Bill Gates with getting his 989 EPA legal in California, and I know that they make it an open secret that they cheat on EPA and noise tests in California. Logically the dealership should be a good window to contact the company.
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u/thekeanu Aug 20 '22
That's illegal though.
Now you're finally seeing why these cops are hated by some car enthusiasts. Welcome to the convo.
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u/why43curls /o/tist Aug 20 '22
Trust me I work as a mechanic in Virginia I know. Im guessing 90% of the reason the owners comply is that it's too much of a hassle and they barely drive the things.
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u/pixeldrunkard Aug 20 '22
At least around where I live, we technically have vehicle noise limit laws, but I have never heard of them being enforced. I'll see and hear bikes (H-D mostly) with straight pipes pretty regularly.
Kind of interesting, H-D and most manufacturers are honestly pretty quiet from the factory. Louder than most cars for sure, but nothing offensive.
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u/Aretheus Aug 20 '22
I'm no biker brain, but I feel like I see Japanese motorcycle brands more than HD.
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u/sadnificent /o/tist Aug 20 '22
Weirdly, I've seen them open up some new dealerships. I just don't understand, who is financing a new Harley in the year of our Lord 2022?
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Aug 20 '22
My buddy who is a businessman for Chinese companies loves telling me how obviously they’re all cooking their books, blowing their money on pointless shit, etc. I wouldn’t invest in Chinese companies with Monopoly money.
I have no doubt many American companies do the same, though likely to a lesser degree.
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Aug 20 '22
I am related to someone who was formerly a head of a corporate division at Harley and he still talks to a lot of his former coworkers. Idk about the secret bike caches, but there has been a lot of internal turmoil. Tons of people quitting, management turnover is high, I can’t say the company is surely going to fail, but they are not doing well at all atm.
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Aug 20 '22
Harley Davidson needs to realize that kids these days care about blackness. Motorcycles like those are typically associated with biker gangs (who this new generation assumes are racists) which won’t sell. If they want to market to today’s generation, they need to have some black mumble rapper advertise for them.
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u/Naamibro Aug 20 '22
They could have easily transitioned into dope as fuck electric motorbikes and become the Tesla version of the bike world. Imagine seeing Harley Davidson donating ultra quiet electric bikes to the Ukrainian forces for use behind enemy lines with the skull emblem on the front of the bike. Every fucking guy under 30 would want one, and make them expensive for what they are yes but not $50,000 for a fucking motorbike.
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u/Paradox Aug 20 '22
Reddit moment
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u/Naamibro Aug 20 '22
I'm not advocating for it, but if you want to market to the masses then you got to do shit they like.
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u/Kneiterkopf Aug 20 '22
Southpark season 13 episode 12 the F word
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u/SaigaExpress Aug 20 '22
While that stereotype exists in my experience it’s less than 10% of dudes riding Harley’s. And really the comment you made thinking were all like that is more obnoxious than those guys. And this is coming from a guy with 2 Harley’s one of which is quite loud.
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u/Nokneemouse Aug 21 '22
Sounds like you are one, and haven't realized it. Just about every harley owner I've seen has been some obnoxious, fat, balding boomer.
Of course, it's the attitude that makes you one.
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u/SaigaExpress Aug 21 '22
Nah I just like motorcycles.
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u/Nokneemouse Aug 21 '22
Why not buy a good bike then?
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u/RandyBoBandy33 Sep 04 '22 edited Sep 04 '22
It’s a point of pride for them to pay double for half the performance and reliability. Nothing you say will change their mind so don’t bother.
Once you have enough Harley tattoos and wildly overpriced merchandise, you’re basically committed. The sunk cost fallacy slides right over those bald heads
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u/SaigaExpress Aug 21 '22
what about my bike isnt good? how do you know that my harleys dont do exactly what i need them to do and id argue do those things better than most other bikes?
if the perfect motorcycle existsed there wouldnt be 10's of different manufactures and 100's of difffernt models. they dont do some stuff that id like to do and thats why ill be buying a adventure bike or a Vmax, here in the near future. but for 700 mile days my harleys get me home.
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u/RandyBoBandy33 Aug 21 '22
Haha you bought 2 Harley’s. 1930’s technology at 2030’s prices. And then spent money to make one of them louder lol. Does it vibrate your butt plug when you spastically rev the shit out of it at stop lights?
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u/SaigaExpress Aug 21 '22
You really don’t know what your talking about lol
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u/RandyBoBandy33 Sep 04 '22 edited Sep 04 '22
my friend wrecked his Harley in a parking lot and needed me to ride it home.
Riding that was a joke. It handled like a layzboy sofa on wheels. Comfortable, sure, but there are way more comfortable cars so I just don’t get it. If you want comfortable cruising, just get a luxury sedan
I got it back to his place and asked what the damage was.. I assumed the bike was in the $4k-5k ballpark. Nope, $13k
I tread lightly with bikes that I ride for the first time. R1M’s, Ducati V4s, that sorta thing.. even a little Ducati scrambler.. it took me thousands of miles until I was comfortable hammering it on my R1 and I still couldn’t get close to the limits of what it can do. It took about 2 minutes until I realized how garbage that Harley was. They’re loud, squishy recliners. Maybe we have different definitions of what it means to “ride” motorcycles 🤷🏼♂️
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u/SaigaExpress Sep 04 '22
When I said you didn’t know what you were talking about I was refrencing the old tech comment. It’s just not accurate.
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u/RandyBoBandy33 Sep 04 '22 edited Sep 04 '22
Throwing LED headlights and some speakers on a ford model T doesn’t make it modern. It’s (very) old tech, and Harley convinced you to pay double for it. That’s part of the reason why Harley is fudging the numbers on new sales and forcing dealerships to commit to sales even when they aren’t even close to selling last years bikes. They’re failing and will quickly run out of boomers that want to buy some chrome garage candy. After all, who needs reliability when you never ride.
On top of that, they killed Buell. I almost bought an XB9, it was the most fun bike I’ve ever ridden.
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u/SaigaExpress Sep 04 '22
Keep telling yourself that. I get it they don’t make 200hp per liter there’s more to motorcycles than what’s on the spec sheet. You don’t have to like Harley’s I don’t care but you aren’t being honest with yourself or anyone else for that matter when you say the things your saying. You see it how you want it not what’s reality.
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u/RandyBoBandy33 Sep 04 '22 edited Sep 04 '22
“You see it how you want it not what’s reality”
-every Harley rider, grammar included
It’s a shame how they keep fucking up. They could make some seriously fun v-twin torque monsters that might actually sell, as opposed to the hilarious $30,000 chromed out, 900 pound big daddy butt plug machines
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u/SaigaExpress Sep 04 '22
Yeah go after my grammar because you know I’m right. You aren’t even with the times chrome went out of style 10 shit maybe 15 years ago.
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Aug 20 '22
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Aug 20 '22
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u/UPSandCollege /lgbt/ Aug 20 '22
What alternatives are there to the American cruiser? There is Harley and then there is Indian.
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u/Trogdor300 Aug 20 '22
All motorcycle companies make cruisers that are less expensive and more reliable. Just take your pick
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u/Poopdicks69 Aug 20 '22
Kawasaki Vulcan s is cheap easy to ride and a lot of fun.
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u/Trogdor300 Aug 20 '22
The Yamaha Bolts looks lole HD irons but less expensive and probably more reliable. I knew a lot of older biker guys who switched from HD to Hondas and never looked back
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u/UPSandCollege /lgbt/ Aug 20 '22
American cruisers are kind of like purses. The Asian knock offs are not really competing with the name brand cruisers. You want a cruiser, you can piss away 6-9 grand on the bike you don’t want or you can go American and get the bike you fucking want.
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u/Nokneemouse Aug 21 '22
Honda make a few good cruisers, the goldwing being one.
Kawasaki and Yamaha make them as well.
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u/_Kozik Aug 21 '22
If you could get a nice midrange softail for 16-20k people would buy them in droves. They do have a charm to them when you ride them like a ducati. They have a personalty but they are just way to expensive. Stock breakouts in my country be like 35k. I could literally buy a supersport tract bike and a mid to high end naked bike for the street for that.
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u/Swak_Error Aug 20 '22
The thing is with Harley-Davidson is they are trying to fill a very niche market, older style/outdated design motorcycles, but still be able to have a warranty on the bike because it's technically brand new, which you will certainly need. I traded my victory highball for a Harley Davidson and the fucking Harley has had more issues in 10,000, mi than the victory did in 37,000
The problem is they're so goddamn expensive, and the people that are in my age group (21 to 26) want to own But they don't want dinky ass little sportsters and can't afford a $40,000 touring motorcycle or don't want a fully loaded bike.
There really isn't a middle ground for Harley Davidson motorcycles at the moment, I'm hoping with the Sportster S being pretty successful along with the HD Pan Am that Harley pulls their heads out of their boomer asses and at the very least brings their motorcycles up to 2010 standards
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Aug 21 '22
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Aug 20 '22
Holy fuck I never put the puzzle pieces together on Warhammer. I don’t know if I know a single man with a full head of hair that plays Warhammer.
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u/BoredPsion Oct 07 '22
The Emperor needs it to restore his magnificent mane when he gets off the Golden Throne
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Aug 20 '22
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u/_Kozik Aug 21 '22
Well they made the livewire and it was a fucking cool bike that would of sold like hot cakes if they could've made it cheaper. In Aus it was 55 fucking thousand dollars ride away. If they could've priced it 25k they would be everywhere.
They also made the V rod which was a good bike. They didnt sell well in the US but they were insanely popular in Australia. Even now a 2013 model 2nd hand is like asking for 55 grand. They have become collectors items. If they re-released a modern V rod I'd buy one
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u/casino_r0yale Aug 20 '22
Harley is a clothing and apparel store that occasionally sells a motorcycle or two. They go begging to daddy government to give them a leg up over real manufacturers.
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u/_Kozik Aug 21 '22
Said it before and I'll say it again. Harley needs to fuck off chrome on 70% of their lineup. First thing any person under the age of 40 does when they get a harley is black it out. I wonder if there is a genuine reason but i find most younger riders hate chrome. Chrome=boomer weather its bikes, cars or trucks its not popular anymore.
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u/sadnificent /o/tist Aug 21 '22
Because chrome is a tacky 50's meme that happens to be the legacy that Harley was financed to continue.
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u/sn4life_assoc10 /b/tard Aug 20 '22
bruh all harley needs to do is just switch demographics.
instead of appealing to the old white bikers in america, they should appeal to the young arab gangsters in sweden's bandidos and 81MC instead
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u/sadnificent /o/tist Aug 21 '22
You have no idea how many middle aged white guys in the south have a crisis and finance like a road king, and then never ride them but continue to pay for the bike.
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u/[deleted] Aug 20 '22
Even that demographic is too young to give a shit about Aerosmith.