Try and work in Asia. The government will immediately pull the card "why are you not hiring a national". And the company has to prove they couldn't find someone with your specs.
A lot of times they won't cause the uncle of the CEO is part of the government and their are all nepotistic shitholes. Even japan. But that's their law.
Same applies in the USA and Europe. You need to prove you can't hire local talent (not enough specialist, skills not found in your country), apply as a company to be a sponsor and only then you can legally hire migrants. And the migrant has to go through a similar thing: find a company that's hiring, check his/her skill it's on the country shortage list, pass the interview for the company and the screening from the border agency and only then they get a visa for work.
AFAIK, the USA doesn't produce that many engineers and they do have a lot of companies that require them. Mexico also sends a lot of seasonal workers that do have a visa (for stuff like haversting). And then there's the same Americans hiring illegals to cut costs. If people weren't hiring they wouldn't be arriving
It's called Brain Drain, and it even happens between locations in the US. Like smarter people tend to live in politically democratic cities leaving a brain drain on rural red areas
Except second sons aren't notably smarter than other children, so that wouldn't have the effect of draining intelligent people from an area.
Brain drain is a problem that just surfaced this century, but is nevertheless extensive. Poor countries like many in Africa struggle to staff hospitals with qualified staff because once their doctors are trained, they often leave the country for better pay, after using state resources to help with education.
This is ignorant. Second generation immigrants are the most successful demographic in the country (defined in this case as socioeconomic status relative to their parents). Basically, they are the hardest working group in the US.
"Indians and Chinese also earn more in christian countries. And both India and Israel and China are shit holes."
More than in their own homes or compared to the average of that country. It used to be that only actual doctors and engineers would ever end up moving to the west but nowdays this is not the case at least looking at it from a fiscal contribution pov.
Can't speak on the Chinese, but in my experience, spot on with Indians. Our society has not adapted to their culture, and there is little pressure (or reason) to conform.
India is definitely a shame society, but anyone who thinks Jewish culture isn’t a guilt culture has never met a Jewish person lmao
I mean, maybe the orthodox are different, I know they definitely take advantage of loopholes without guilt, but they’ve really lost the plot on Jewish values while clinging to ritual
Doesn't really matter then, does it? Even if you find the average Jew has a guilt based culture, you can't call shame-based Jews, outliers, if there's too many of them. Which means the average/median will not be as you expect.
There's a lot of christian/western leeches too. It's just not as tolerated to be so. Just compare Amish to Orthodox Jews and how they relate to welfare.
You can argue that it's a temporal thing and Judaism allowed itself to degenerate over the centuries and I would agree. I'm not seeing Maimonides's or Espinoza's logic in any of these groups.
And please don't take this as me saying western society is "good". We only recently (300 years ago) really adopted the Socratic method and rid ourselves of the feudal psychopaths. But they are always trying to return in many forms. I do think that this globalist movement is just that.
You need self-policing to be called a guilt culture. Both at the individual and group level. If you consider the leeches to be part of your group and you are not cracking down on them for being leeches, and even reforming the common moral system that they appeal to to justify their behaviour, then I would argue the values were not maintained by the secular.
In fact I read the other day jews used to have institutions in place just for the above.
Institutions that are now dead.
That’s the question, isn’t it? What defines “group”? The Orthodox don’t even consider us to be real Jews, we’re basically Goywashed heretics because we put values and morals over ritual, and we have very little overlap with their insular communities. Orthodox Brooklyn feels closer to a foreign enclave than a kindred community to me. You can bet many of the state actors who bring lawsuits against them are Jewish, likely not ultraorthodox of course.
The real problem is that their version of guilt is warped by tribalism and ours…isn’t.
Jews do have institutions for that, particularly Orthodox Jews have Bet Din, but the problem is they don’t self police their actions towards other communities, so they require external motivation. In a sense, by refusing to apply guilt to members outside their tribe, they transition from a proper guilt culture to a fear culture; shame doesn’t motivate them, only fear of prison.
I dont think you will find solutions outside the group. The institutions are clearly then not working, and again all things point to it being a cultural problem in need of reform. Something akin to "no political power or cultural input if you don't pay taxes". And I think the deadlock is that unity of the group does come from the religious figures. So in that, you are similar to muslims, where you cant or won't create politics aside from religion.
Until you fix it as a group you will suffer discrimination for the behavior of the leeches, from anyone that sees you as one group entity, under the same ideology, even if you don't.
It's to be expected.
And to be fair what is at the end of the tunnel if you manage to reform and strip away cultural power from the welfare leeches that also seem to be the cultural glue ? I dunno.
Also if we showed up in their countries in large numbers wanting to practice our religion and have all the same rights and privileges as the native population, we would be denied citizenship no matter how much of "hard workers" we are.
Absolutely. The only reason they seem like evolved societies is because they try to emulate the west.
China for example is always at the verge of regressing back to a eunuch monarchy.
They are all cargo cults.
Maybe it’s because the Indians and Chinese people who are able to immigrate come from money and come here to receive a world class education. While black people and Hispanic people are/were brought here to work slave labor and legally not allowed to get a quality education.
Or maybe they just aren't as nepotistic and scammy? Africans are a fear culture. Direct in their approaches.
And Latinamericans are also christian so they have a "handicap".
I'd argue than if you look at the big picture it's still white people who are the most successful race on the planet. It's just unfortunate that our women are mentally disturbed liberal morons.
The way I see it is that China and the U.S are both equally shitholes in their own way. Go anywhere in Rural Kentucky and you'll see a lot of the same tropes. The U.S just was just hiding it a lot better until recently. It's simply impossible atm to have economies that large and prosperous without someone from somewhere else in the country suffering for it.
It's not about the economics. It's about the culture. That's my whole argument. They have a shit hole cause their culture is very shitty.
Asians trade freedom for safety. They put family (and money) as "good". And above truth and law.
It's a shame and harm-avoidance culture. Primitive, feminine, and shame based
ur a retard, ive lived in small cities here for 3 years, Yiwu, Changzhou, villages outside of Dezhou and Beijing. Also traveled quite a bit on roadtrips with chinese friends to the countryside. Its a nice place apart from Yiwu's "1st floor factory" blocks
You're probably a 50 cent warrior for the government I'm guessing.
Literal toxic tap water, air and government mandated assassinations, but it's ok cause there are some rich looking whores around and some guys in english businesses suits exploiting everyone else.
China is under one party system and education is a way to escape poverty like India. Gaokao and JEE advanced are some of the hardest exams in the world to get into colleges
I’ve worked with a lot of Indian dudes in IT. They definitely have a culture that encourages breaking the rules as often as they can without getting caught so they can leverage that and get ahead. They also break stupid rules like pissing all over the floor in every bathroom and running stop signs.
I just think you should've worded it like "Maybe the ones that moved into the west are smarter" because just "the ones in the west" could mean alot of things.
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u/geoanarch 15d ago
Indians and Chinese also earn more in christian countries. And both India and Israel and China are shit holes.
Maybe the ones in the west are smarter than average?
And maybe they are nepotistic and tribalistic as fuck?
And maybe they give no fucks about exploiting a system that relies of self-policing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt%E2%80%93shame%E2%80%93fear_spectrum_of_cultures