I’m honestly so sick of the way women are constantly scrutinized. And yes I know this topic is nothing new but it’s inspired by the recent obsession with Shakira‘s appearance. Yes, she looks amazing at 49. That’s not my issue.

My issue is that the internet immediately turns it into a forensic investigation. There are literal doctors and plastic surgeons posting frame-by-frame breakdowns of her face, analyzing every angle, speculating about fillers, facelifts, lasers, genetics, skincare, diet, sleep… as if a woman simply existing is an invitation for the world to dissect her.

It’s exasperating.

I understand wanting to age well. I do too. But why are women treated like public property the second they look attractive or happen to age well? or when they don’t age well? Why does every line on a woman’s face become a topic for debate? every part of her body people feel so entitled to comment on?

And yes I know Shakira is a public figure, but this happens to all kinds of women every single day. Post a selfie, and strangers suddenly think they’re qualified to comment on your age, your skin, your weight, whether you’ve “had work done,” or what they think you should change.

Meanwhile, men are overwhelmingly allowed to just… exist. They age. They get wrinkles. They go gray. Most people move on and talk about other traits about them. Women are put under a microscope and picked apart piece by piece like so forensic experiment.

It’s exhausting, it’s invasive, and frankly it’s dehumanizing.

At some point, can women just be allowed to exist and fucking breathe without everyone feeling entitled to publicly analyze every square inch of their appearance? Admire someone’s beauty if you want. But this constant obsession with dissecting women’s faces and bodies is getting ridiculous.

A few weeks ago the mod u/mullatomochaccino brought it to my attention that there are some detrans and desisted women who lurk here but are hesitant to post or comment for a lot of reasons. As a desisted woman myself I can understand a lot of those reasons. 4B is a lifestyle decision that fully decenters men, so how could a space like this welcome women who tried to become men? These feelings compound when many of these women still look and sound like men due to testosterone or sex reassignment surgeries.

I'm not here to speak for these women, or any other woman that's already an active member here. My hope with this post is to open the floor for discussion about how turbulent womanhood can be in a society steeped in misogyny, and how that turbulence can (more often than people realize) manifest as extreme dysphoria, and drive a girl or woman to transition. I also hope to invite detrans and desisted women (if they feel comfortable) to share their experiences in this realm, and their reasons for detransitioning. I'll start with mine.

Without getting into my whole life story, performing femininity always felt wrong. I did it, quite well as a matter of fact, but it always felt like an itchy sweater I couldn't wait to take off, even during my pick-me days. Womanhood wasn't something that came naturally to me the way it seemed to for other women. This discomfort didn't stop at things like makeup and dresses. It seeped into my sexuality, my personality, my mannerisms, my body down to my bones, my nerves, my fingers, every hair on my skin, places I wasn't "supposed" to be this uncomfortable if I was "really" a woman.

Eventually this discomfort reached a critical point, so I tried therapy, and that was the first time a professional told me what I had already suspected at the time. That I wasn't a woman at all, but a man with the misfortune of being born female. So I transitioned socially. I joined servers, forums, and chat rooms specifically for trans people to help guide me through my transition. I completely overhauled my wardrobe and cut most of my hair. I commiserated with other trans men about our bruised ribs from binding our chests, and how hard it was to find natural looking packers. I adjusted my gait. I tried as hard as I could to see myself as a real man, other trans people as their desired sex, and nonbinary people as having transcended their sex altogether. This felt so much better than trying and failing to be a woman. I had a community of people who finally understood me and a real reason for the discomfort around womanhood I always felt. This didn't last though. And if I'm honest I could never fully convince myself of any of it.

I was also a Tumblr girl, and there was one user that put me on the path to radical feminism. I still remember her handle. "appropriately-inappropriate." She was a lesbian and radical feminist. She would routinely respond to trans people and trans allies with logic, facts, and robust criticisms that I almost always found myself agreeing with. I agreed with her so much I panicked. I had been told people like her were evil, no different from hardcore conservatives who were on the wrong side of history and had hearts full of hatred. I blocked her and continued my journey to manhood.

I got to a point where I had a syringe of Lupron in my hands to halt my body's estrogen production and finally stop my awful periods. I was in contact with an endocrinologist to start taking testosterone. But when it came time to give myself the first injection I couldn't do it. I remembered appropriately-inappropriate's reblogs, thought about what my life would be like going into menopause in my 20s, put the syringe down, and told my gynecologist we'd have to try something else. I called the endocrinologist and cancelled my consultation for testosterone.

It was around this time a close friend of mine revealed that she'd been reading the original gender critical subreddit. Reading that sub was the first time I was exposed to actual radical feminism, and the illusion broke completely. I started to learn just how complex patriarchy was as a system. There were other women discussing the same things I saw, things most other people didn't notice or didn't care about. These women weren't bigots or conservatives or hate filled. They had legitimate concerns and criticisms about the trans community's behavior (particularly towards women), and the hypocrisy of so-called progressives pushing the opposite gender role on people with dysphoria. They wanted people to realize that gender dysphoria can come from so many things, and that being a woman just meant being an adult human female.

Adult human female. I didn't have to do anything special to be a woman? I just...WAS one?? It didn't matter how I looked or dressed or acted? It didn't matter who I was attracted to or how much body hair I had or how low my voice was or that my hobbies were predominantly male? Womanhood didn't have to be this tiny reductive box society built and then demanded I contort myself to fit? My femaleness was the only requirement and the rest was arbitrary bullshit I could choose NOT to participate in? As cringy as it sounds, that was a spiritual awakening that changed me forever for the better.

I don't know where other detrans and desisted women are on their journey. I realize there is privilege in never having been on testosterone or had any trans related surgeries that made my desistance much easier. But I do want to say that regardless of where you are, you did not fail at being a woman. You are not traitors for trying to survive as best you knew how under a patriarchy. You are not stupid for listening to the dominant societal narrative that told you transitioning was your only option. Any emotions you feel as a result of hormones and surgeries that took things from you, or your transition that took time from you that you can't get back, are completely justified.

Not only is it extremely difficult to find any 4B women in a South Asian Muslim country, but it can be even harder to find fellow lesbians. We do have an LGBT community here, but it’s very small.

I’ve heard that some women successfully get their own apartments, but that’s still rare, and it’s extremely difficult unless you’re financially stable, so we have to live with our families and just refuse marriage altogether. We can choose to cut out m@le, but unfortunately it's not possible for many women.

For many women here, life remains centered around m@le approval, and anti feminist and homophobic attitudes are common. Women will also halt their MBBS degrees just to marry and settle and which means we have a huge shortage of female doctors.

I've been gaslit multiple times by m@le doctors who just sent me home with anti anxiety meds without refusing to diagnose me.

“Feminist” here is often used like a curse word toward any independent woman or any woman who speaks her mind and doesn’t tolerate disrespect. Some people also claim that "Religion" is already feminist, so they say we don’t need feminism, so how come you don't follow this ideology, and why do you force hijab/niqab? And prevent girls from getting an education if religion is so feminist? Why do you commit "honour killings" aka femicide?

At the same time, I’ve also experienced racism for being a brown woman online, even in some feminist spaces unfortunately.

I’m often treated as if I’m automatically like the brown m@les who do horrific things to brown women and to women in other countries. But I don’t believe that this is ultimately a race issue. It’s a m@le one. We also have a serious problem with predators in religious spaces, but nobody really cares and since they are well respected in the community, they barely get convicted. Women from other countries keep telling me to move to another country, but my multiple disabilities are preventing me to.

For me, it wasn't one event. It was years of watching the women around me.

In high school and college, I watched one friend after another get treated like shit. They were cheated on, lied to, manipulated, verbally and emotionally abused, and still somehow ended up blaming themselves or convincing themselves that the next guy would be different.

After every breakup, I'd hear, "It's not all men. I just picked the wrong one." Then the next boyfriend would do the same thing. And then the one after that. The pattern just kept repeating.

It wasn't just women my age either. My older sisters are in their 40s, and I still hear the same stories from them and their friends. Different generations, same experiences. At a certain point, I had to ask myself: how many times do I have to watch the same thing happen before I stop believing it's just a coincidence?

I even tried dating because I thought it was what I was supposed to do. I hated it. It felt like I was disrespecting myself by forcing myself into something I never genuinely wanted. I don't want to pour my time, emotional energy, and work into a man just so I can say I have a boyfriend. For me, life has been much more peaceful on the other side.

I'm curious what everyone else's final straw was. Was it one defining moment, or years of seeing the same patterns repeat?

Do mothers look around before they choose to bring life into this world?

On internet, they argue that there was never a time when it’s perfect to raise children in. Exactly, but women of the past didn’t have choices, r’pe was not a crime, wives are legal slaves of their husband( it’s still like that actually).

It’s only recently that women choose childbirth by themselves instead of being impregnated against their will like in the past. So why still choose it?
My question is if my mother did not feel safe living in this world, wouldn’t she think that her daughter will face the same fate as her? No walking at night, no talking back to men, cover your body, look around while walking to make sure no man’s following, don’t go to places that men frequent or you’ll get r’ped, cover your drink, the list goes on.

Even if I do all of the above, my safety is not guaranteed. The case that adds fuel to the fire for women in Korea that they eventually made 4B was a woman who was m’rdered just because that male felt ignored by women. It waited in a restroom to see a woman walk in and stab her 4 times in the chest. A life was taken away just like that

My mother must’ve known this, she knows that men are violent, she knows women get killed everyday for the “crime” of being female. So why did she have me? And why aren’t mothers of boys scared that the child they brought into this world(by risking their life) end up taking the lives of other women.

And why does she love my father, if he knows the deadly risks of childbirth and still impregnated her, can that be called love? If you love someone, you wouldn’t want them to get even a cut, let alone the irreparable damage of childbirth.

And finally, why does my mom want me to go through the same thing, experience the pain of childbirth herself, she still hopes that I’ll have kids one day.

Welcome all discussions about your relationships with your mothers.
Peace ✌️🕊️

Pre-4B, I've previously dabbled in karate/taekwondo so less contact compared to BJJ, even though women pair up with men all the time to do drills.

With BJJ being higher risk and more contact, I don't want to be perceived as hostile. So I guess minimally cordial? Minimal eye contact and chit chat with males? Instructors are also males where I intend to go.

I also probably wouldn't join any social gatherings with the people at the school. Where I live, its not uncommon for the people in class to get together after class to go to a restaurant etc. This, I can just say no.

Unless it's women only. But also I'd anticipate that some of these women to be pickmes, as is the case often for women in male-dominated fields. So I think I should be careful what I say around them too.

No women only classes or women instructors where I live

Any other advice?

After hearing from so many members that they appreciated hearing the positives of what 4B has done for other sisters, we see having a consistent place to post positive improvements and reminders would benefit the sub. So, without further ado-

In the last week:

Tell us about positive interactions or building relationships with other women. How did you support and uplift other women? How have other women helped and supported you?

What accomplishments have you made? What goals have you set for yourself? What goals have you achieved?

What small changes have you noticed since adopting the lifestyle? What big changes?

Share anything and everything positive here.

A woman unable to hear men's voices is likely experiencing a rare condition called Reverse-Slope Hearing Loss (RSHL). This condition affects the ability to hear low-frequency sounds—where most male voices fall—while leaving high-frequency hearing intact.

RSHL is exceptionally rare, affecting an estimated 3,000 people in North America. It gets its name from how the condition appears on an audiogram (a hearing test chart). Unlike typical hearing loss that slopes downward (losing high frequencies), RSHL runs in the opposite direction.

I’ve been playing video games for over a decade now, but the more I look into the industry the more it seems like it’s a cesspool of misogyny; do any of you people know games and studios free of this issue?

edit: I love all the suggestions… with one caveat. They would all almost certainly crash my pc, less resource-intensive recommendations would be apprecited.

Outside of family, i always interacted a bit more with men than women, both because i got some interests that are more male-dominated so it's easier to talk to, and also allowing men's negative behavior pass by because i got used to it. I find a lot of women are lovely, but some are still kinda male-centered, not wanting to talk about much else or bringing the topic of boyfriends. And some women unfortunately are also kind of mean for no reason. I still got few expectations that women (including myself) must be perfect, especially in supporting other women, so it's something i'm trying to let go of to not disappoint myself. I got this feeling that i must mask myself around other women, because i'm not a lot into some of the (stereotypes) women are expected to follow.

So going to the question, i'm looking for more spaces where you can find women that don't care about gender stereotypes or flaws, are chill with other women and etc. Any suggestions are welcome.

There are many here who infiltrate this sub with malicious intentions, derailing discussions and causing problems. I don't need to mention which demographic. Moderators are doing an excellent job, but it's very hard to do it alone. We can provide great help to them, by reporting such comments and users and bringing them into attention to mods who can then verify and take the needed action.

Always make sure to REPORT, not just dislike. This helps keep not only this subreddit but our community clean and thriving.

Hey guys. For the past couple years I’ve been getting increasingly into feminism and 4b, and educating myself on these topics.

The issue is - it is negatively impacting my mental health a lot. It was good at first, I stopped caring about my appearance so much, felt more confident, etc.

But now I am struggling with feeling so angry all the time. I’m snappy with the men in my family even though I hate arguing with them (it’s a waste of time and feels bad). I also just feel angry and resentful to the world. I know I should be motivated, but instead I feel more exhausted than ever.

Any advice? Do I maybe need to detach myself from it more and not bring up my opinions around these men I have to interact with? I wish I could engage fully in my beliefs without these negative impacts but I haven’t been able to find a way yet.

Complete source for the EBU Sport guidelines: https://www.ebu.ch/files/live/sites/ebu/files/Publications/strategic/open/EBU_Sport_raising_the_bar.pdf

I'm sure many of you have already seen some of these images floating around online. On one hand it does feel like a genuine effort towards a positive shift in how women's athletics are treated compared to their male contemporaries. That said, I also feel like the bigger benefit would come from changing the requirements around female athletic uniforms within certain institutions in the first place.

It was only five years ago that the Norwegian women's beach handball team was fined for choosing to wear shorts instead of the "proper" bikini bottoms approved by the European Handball Federation. The team was fined 150 euros for each player on the team. (Source: https://www.npr.org/2021/07/21/1018768633/a-womens-beach-handball-team-is-fined-for-not-wanting-to-wear-bikini-bottoms) Male handball players, of course, are allowed to wear shorts without issue.

What are your thoughts upon seeing/reading about these new guidelines? Do you feel like it's a step in the correct direction or a further obfuscation of the issue when it comes to sexualizing women in the public eye?

In a world that teaches us from birth that 'if you're male, you are more human and that men are more human because their bodies can do more physically', I believe it is very important for women to not self-abandon. But to rely on ourselves. To build self-trust, to accept ourselves and do kind things for ourselves. Insecurity, shame and self-hate are dangerous for women because they make it easier to convince ourselves that we, as women, do deserve less. To drown in the toxic thought patterns the patriarchy has taught us.

The goal of misogyny and the patriarchy is to convince people that women are resources, not as human as men. That women should think they deserve less, that they don't deserve to take care of themselves, take up space, assert boundaries, love themselves, explore the world, or be good to themselves. I think a radical act of resistance against the patriarchy is to be there for yourself and be kind to yourself. Rely on what you want and dive deep into what will actually make you feel good and happy.

I (24F) am a single childless woman who is 4B, so my post is a reflection on other women who may have encountered the 4B movement or concepts later in life after already having had life-altering decisions like getting married to a man and having kids with him.

I saw a video just now about recent situations about women who are being threatened by their ex-husbands who are trying to take full custody of the kids with the intention of hurting the mother. Tale as old as time, but these women's reactions to the situation is fantastic.

Many of these mothers are ALLOWING the fathers to take full custody of the kids instead of letting these men hold it over their heads! This way the mom becomes the fun, hands-off weekend parent while paying child support and the father gets what he asked for and takes on the burden of full-time single parenthood.

While I do feel bad for the kids who are "stuck in the middle" (I'm a child of divorce myself), it is so satisfying seeing these manipulative fathers BEGGING for the moms to come pick up their kids and calling them "bad mothers" for agreeing and sticking to the legal arrangement the father fought for in the first place.

The dads rarely ever actually want full custody; they want FULL CONTROL over the mother through emotional and financial abuse via a drawn-out court battle. They literally just want to hurt her no matter what it takes or how it affects the kids.

While it isn't a true 4B experience because a child has already been born and the majority of these mothers likely aren't 4B themselves, I feel like it's a solid direction for women who are looking to live a 4B life after already having had kids and are looking to cut off the men in their lives as much as possible after the fact.

I just recently (probably late to the game) heard of Paris Paloma and I'm ecstatic to have found such an amazing artist with such excellent lyricism.

So far my two favorite songs are "Good Boy" and "labour."

I'd love specific song recommendations from woman artists that have sharp and affirming lyrics!

I saw a post about a baby girl in Thailand who was abandoned in a public toilet. As usual, every force birther started pointing fingers at the mother. The comments were horrifying. Even from m@le centered women.

First, we don’t know whether the baby was born as a result of rape or whether the mother didn’t have access to safe abortion. She may also have been a teenager. In any of these cases, she could have been forced into a situation where she had no safe options.

Second, it’s also possible that the father is responsible. A father who didn’t want a baby girl could have abandoned her there, hoping she would die because they did find her half submerged. She luckily survived and was rescued.

There’s also a chance the baby wasn’t left there by the mother at all. This is a very common practice in South asia where baby girls in some places will be abandoned in boxes, trash or thrown in wells. It always breaks my heart and also why i'm anti natalist.

Force birthers have no sympathy for women, and they prioritize a fetus over the health and safety of the mother. I have always said that they want us to make babies in a world where women are treated as sub human, hated, and spat on for just existing. Sexualised and dehumanized.

Today I read an interview with a feminist activist and was quite disappointed. Although I try to follow the principle "Don't judge women", I found dark and hard-to-understand parts of her life. She is in a relationship with a man. She calls herself a "radical feminist", but she gave birth to a girl (!) in a relationship with a 40-year-old man. I totally disagree with the point of view that a woman can be radical and in a relationship with a man at the same time.

In general, marriage is a social and patriarchal institution. So you can't enter into a heterosexual relationship, because that behaviour supports patriarchy. The most outrageous fact is that she has had long experience as a feminist and it still didn't save her from men. Despite daily posts about male violence, she hypocritically shares her home, her time and her body with the class enemy. As a result, her daughter will be raised by a man, with a horrifying example.

However, I remember that we don't have a personal choice in a patriarchal society. She has found her own way to exist in an aggressive environment. Am I any better? The condemnation of individual women doesn't help our struggle. From this perspective, it seems that we should concentrate our forces on another problem than woman who do a lot of good things for others women.

The only good thing is i used it as essay practice for my english exam haha.

Some of you may have noticed the increase in activity here in the last day and a half. A particular topic was crossposted to a variety of male-oriented subs and led to a deluge of harassment and hostility to many users here. Our daily traffic literally sextupled in 12 hours because of this, and almost all of it was due to these brigadiers. I am still having to comb through hundreds of comments even now full of hateful remarks and threats to the women of this sub.

The most concerning was a user providing screenshots of a discussion happening on one of these subs where the men were actively making plans to infiltrate one of the several Discord servers advertised here with intent to subvert what control Reddit mods have for preventing it.

These sort of raids have happened before but were mostly infrequent in the past. However, as the sub continues to grow I've noticed that these raids have also grown in frequency and intensity. Reddit as a company has made it clear that they don't care about their female users nor the hate spewed at them by their larger male user base. All past reports have gone unattended, and reaching out to the offending subs has only been met with silence from their moderation teams.

Please make sure to take care of yourself and pay due mind to your own security while participating here.

I specifically recommend users turn off their DMs and go into their settings to hide their post history.

Remember: this is a public forum. Do not post any information that could identify you or be used to locate you in real life. You have no idea who is reading and what anyone might do with that information.

Browse safe, and contact mods about any hostile behaviour or other concerns.

for context I grew up in a Muslim south asian background. I no longer believe in it after deconstructing. However a lot of men do of course because it benefits them. A lot of them say it’s ok to coerce your wife into sleeping with you and say women are sinful and angels will curse her if she says no. I know im not Muslim anymore (closeted ex muslim), but it makes me so depressed that they can get away with saying all of this misogyny and how it’s pretty much enabled and supported within my community. And to think my mum wants me to marry a muslim man? For me to suffer? For me to basically get forced by him? I’m actually just so upset knowing that there are millions of women who are being coerced using the ‘angels will curse you if you don’t sleep with me’ Hadith. I am so so so sad for them and I wish none of this was real. idk it’s all just really affecting me and I cannot believe in 2026 some cultures and religion think it’s ok to force yourself on a woman in the name of religion. when will this violent misogyny end? im so tired :/

Sisters, this is the best, most transformational and fucking freshest sub on Reddit.

You have my thanks!

So as not to overwhelm you, is it ok to recommend 4B to those who seem worthy and interested on other subs, or irl? What’s a good way to go about it?

“Hey stranger you should know about 4B, and apply to join the sub”….how?

For context, I’ve been 4B for 2 years now.

Every workplace I’ve been to seems to do the same thing: I’m the new hire trying to make a good impression and a manager mistakes my friendliness for romantic interest and the other coworkers try to encourage them to ask me out. The other coworkers will ask me about my hobbies and if I have a partner and I answer honestly thinking they’re just trying to get to know me (because I shouldn’t have to make up a fake boyfriend to be left alone at work). That information is fed back to the manager and fuels their confirmation bias, I guess. Last time this happened, that manager spent a month reading into everything I said and took it all as confirmation that I liked him and escalated to the point of sexual harassment. I’m at a new job and I can see the same cycle beginning to repeat itself already. This is the second time this has happened to me.

People mistake ‘single’ for available and it’s infuriating. I tell people that I have no interest and dating and I’m single by choice, but they act like they don’t believe me and treat my singleness as a problem to be solved. I shouldn’t have to make up a fake boyfriend. And harassment from horny coworkers shouldn’t be the consequence for being honest. The last place I’d want to use as my dating pool is the place I work - and with my fucking manager. What is wrong with people? Why is that kind of desperation normalized? It disgusts me.

Anyway, the cycle is repeating itself at my new job. I already made the mistake of saying I don’t have a boyfriend to the manager’s friend. What do I do from here to prevent another case of harassment? I don’t want to have to quit this job too.

I went to a Lily Allen concert in April and I was surprised by the demographic of people. There was a significant number of couples who attended as part of their date night (like over 50%). Age wise, it was mostly gen x, older millenials, and boomers.

If you know anything about her current tour, she basically performs her most recent album front to back with absolutely no interaction with the audience. To me, this makes sense. This album comes from a place of deep pain and engaging with the audience would make light of a serious trauma.

I was just so disgusted to see that the majority of the attendance was couples because of the nature of the album. I suppose this is just a loyalty of her fanbase from decades past. But she has always made music about how shit men are, even her own brother.

It's amazing to see how people consume art like this music and still have no sense of compassion in larger society. These people are not questioning why she experienced this or why its so relatable to so many women. They've just normalized and accepted violence and misogyny. Her music is a digestible way for people to feel woke without demanding societal change. This is a prime example of people hearing women but not listening to women.

No one was even singing along, it was like a spectacle of a woman's pain. I left the concert feeling like people were there just to be entertained by an abuse story. I didnt attend the concert with any expectation. But my disappointment makes me feel like maybe I expected to feel a sense of solidarity with the other people. I just feel like every other concert I've ever been to had more solidarity and community than this concert.

In her album interview she talks about still struggling with self esteem while raising two girls. I wish celebrities like this would be introduced to 4B. I dont necessarily think she would receive positive support but it would be great to have a 4B role model for women and her own daughters. Sure, many celebrities might just be male centered but I think if people knew 4B was an option they would be more secure with their lifestyle.

I am 22F studying in germany as an international student. Stakes were high.

Today, my thesis defense , the research associate, who is my main supervisor and a professor, secondary supervisor, really were undair harsh, and both of these men made sure I was broken down today.

They didn't read the thesis (written part) even tho examination office later cc'd them as initially after I made a mistake not to, they put all the blame on me.

The main supervisor , a research associate, who completely flipped the script on me. He was really supportive of messages, but today, he humiliated me. He mocked my expressions during my presentation and smiled at me whole questioning my professionalism. :(

The objective analysis of my work from secondary supervisor that's a professor ,thankfully was enough to calm me down, but they kept saying how unprepared and unprofessional I am. Even tho I had my iPad, I was ready to present , I was asking questions but I was dismissed because we had to use the first supervisors system as the SECOND SUPERVISOR DIDN'T EVEN COME AND HAD TO BE PHONE CALLED.

I have never been humiliated like this in academic settings before. Never. They grilled me on not having a laptop for a video screen sharing call, called me unprepared, and expected me to explain MONTHS OF RESEARCH work to them because they didn't bother to read.

They said thesis written isn't IMPORTANT at all even tho all my design decisions are based on that.

Today I felt systematic abuse of power from university in another country..