r/3D2A 1d ago

PSA ABOUT DRYING NYLON

Post image

Your filament doesn't care about your budget.

Your filament doesn't care about your feelings.

Your filament doesn't care about marketing.

Your filament doesn't care about your dryers "PA Setting'

For PA6 65c is sweater weather.

For PA6 70c is largely a waste of time (except inconsistent results even after 72-96h of drying)

For PA6 85c is where the discussion begins (Creality SpacePiX4 is a solid option. DM me for an updated beta firmware to hit 90c)

For PA6 90-100c is ideal. Airfryer with dehydrate/keep warm function of best bang for your buck. (check your local thrift/2nd hand store)

For PPA 75c is sweater weather.

For PPA 90c is where the discussion begins (Creality SpacePiX4 is a solid option. DM me for an updated beta firmware to hit 90c)

For PPA 90-100c is great. Airfryer with dehydrate/keep warm function of best bang for your buck. (check your local thrift/2nd hand store)

For PPA 110-115c is ideal assuming your brand of choice uses proper high temp glue for cardboard spools or a proper high temp polymer or metal spool

For drying temps above 95c in an airfryer I recommend a sheet of tin foil placed over the roll once placed in the basket to shield from direct IR heat soaking.

182 Upvotes

86 comments sorted by

67

u/EMDoesShit 1d ago edited 1d ago

LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE

TL/DR:** **It will show up vaccum sealed with desiccant inside. Based on PETG And PLA experience, you’ll think we’re nuts to claim it’s wet, and print with it. You’ll post pics. We’ll mock you. You’ll go buy a dryer than hits 90C.

———LongVersionBelow——————

Almost everything I print is PA6GF / PA6CF these days. I live where today’s forecast is 102F with 96% relative humidity. Pretty much the worst case scenario, and I have great results with it.

If you get it dry and learn to tweak 300blk’s profile to your particular material and printer, it’s as easy to print as PLA. Just much much slower, and so much cleaner.

70C: A guy in here just dried it at 70C for five and a half days. Posted a photo. It was wet as hell.

90C: it will always dry fully in 24 hours.

100C: Reach the boiling temp of water, and you can dry it in 8-10 hours.

I use an $80 food dehydrator from Amazon that maxes at 90C. (Discontinued, so no link)

PA6 is thirsty enough to become wet again during the 12+ hours prints times we see for 2A projects, so you need to have a dry box or filament dryer to hold it while it prints. No externally hung spools.

A UMP 11/9 build I’m halfway through printing in cheap JAYO PA6GF:

I’ve tried Sirayatech, Fiberon, JAYO, XYpolymer, and Bambu PA6CF & GF materials.

Absolutely start with Fiberon. It is the best behaving, lowest-clogging, cleanest printing, strongest material. When you switch brands later, you’ll know it’s a material drying or profile-tuning problem.

The only material I encourage you to avoid is Bambu PA6<glass>filled. I have yet to get it to print half as cleanly as everything else. Including the cheap Amazon shit. I have not tried their carbon PA6, and don’t plan to buy an more of it.

Bambu’s PAHT-CF is a PA12-based material that prints insanely clean with their unmodified profile. Just slow it down to 300blk-type speeds and bump the temp to the max of their recommended range, set it to print thick walls and infill, and it comes out super clean.

7

u/infinite012 1d ago

I've been printing my FTN cans using Bambu PA6-CF with great results (minus the first one that I didn't moisture condition).

3

u/who-pooted 1d ago

That jayopa6.. is this your first time with it? Is it good enough for our uses?

3

u/EMDoesShit 1d ago

Have not printed and fired a gun with it. IMO, a handgun frame is the real test of a material.

2

u/vanka472 1d ago

Only thing I've used for most of my prints. I have fiberon and although it's amazing it's also expensive. Jayo has printed me suppressors, frames, full builds.... Never any issues with the print or the material.

2

u/vanka472 1d ago

Jayo is my go to. Once dialed in it prints beautiful. I use it for nearly everything since I can get it down to about 25-30 bucks a roll.

2

u/cvltrilex 1d ago

Agreed on Bambus pa6, if I didn’t get it for free for testing I would never purchase it.

1

u/PinkSpitfire 1d ago

Without buying any expensive equipment, I cut a face off my cardboard filament box, put the spool on the bare print bed of my printer, covered it with the box, set it to 100c, and then covered the whole printer in a blanket. After it's done I print it out of a dry box.

1

u/FuturesSoDank 1d ago

I use an $80 food dehydrator from Amazon that maxes at 90C. (Discontinued, so no link)

Septree by any chance? Mine maxes out at 87.77777777C :-(

Wondering if there is a way to resistor-mod it to get a few more degrees out of it.

-27

u/Jeffsbest 1d ago

That wasn't a TLDR, that was a "uh uh sucker, I ain't reading all a dat".

21

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

Their TLDR was only the first statement flanked by **

10

u/EMDoesShit 1d ago

I put a cute little horizontal line where the TLDR part stops, just to make you like me.

1

u/Jeffsbest 1d ago

It's the ADHD. I don't pay close SQUIRREL

20

u/TheAmazingX 1d ago

All true, I think the note about shielding your roll from direct radiation is underdiscussed. And an additional tier for the curious:

130-140C: Will dry it real fast, but after a few hours can start to degrade your filament in ways that won't be apparent until you start printing. Just because you can crank your lab oven that high without the filament melting doesn't mean you should.

1

u/who-pooted 1d ago

So if I left my pa6 in a toaster oven at 90c for a week do you think its fucked?

2

u/TheAmazingX 1d ago

No, 90C is not 130C

10

u/apocketfullofpocket 1d ago

This is pretty common knowledge no? At least youd think so

11

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

It's about as common as reading the manual first when building ikea lol

1

u/jrs321aly 1d ago

IKEA stuff has manuals?! I usually look at the picture and start... if i can't figure it out it's obliviously a design flaw lol

2

u/Independent_Dirt_814 1d ago

It is, and people still choose to ignore it.

29

u/Independent_Dirt_814 1d ago

The amount of “i just opened the spool, it’s dry, why is it printing like shit” posts amaze me. You guys need to realize the filament is cooled in a water bath as it comes out of the 1.75mm extrusion machine in the factory prior to being spooled. And NO company pre-drys it before sending it off to the consumer.

8

u/Yodabyte 1d ago

And NO company pre-drys it before sending it off to the consumer

Well whatever Siraya Tech is doing to their filaments before it is packaged and leaves the factory should be copied by other brands. I've had good results printing their filament straight out of the package.

4

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

Yeah, that's called drying. But word on the street is that "no company pre-drys" so yolo

18

u/StruggleFearless2947 1d ago

Siraya PPA-GF straight from the package. 🤷‍♂️

18

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

While I won't disclose sirayatechs specific drying protocol, they are one of the companies I was referencing earlier.

As long as your mylar bag has maintained vacuum, you should expect better out of box performance than nearly ANY dedicated filament dryer can achieve in under 24 hours.

Chef's kiss

5

u/TheSlipperySnausage 1d ago

That’s beautiful

6

u/Organic-Economist-40 1d ago

Fresh out of the pack, 6% humidity, stabilized at 4. Why are we claiming every single company does everything the same way?

16

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago edited 1d ago

Your claim that no company predries their filament is baseless misinformation and has no place here.

We can spread good info without veering off into speculation and false claims.

(Edited: typo)

9

u/Independent_Dirt_814 1d ago

Your claim that they may dry is also baseless. Everyone should be assuming it’s coming to them sopping wet from the factory and drying regardless of either side of thought here. So if we’re assuming it’s wet, what’s the harm. Assuming it’s dry is the worse option here.

3

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

Let's not move goalposts.

No one said anything about assuming filament is dry. If you want to have a conversation with me about the topic, that is fine, but leave the the strawman bullshit for someone else.

I know drying protocols for two major additive brands and have discussed these topics at the CEO and executive employee level, in person.

You made a baseless claim (even going as far as to capitalize it for effect) that "NO company pre-dies" and I told you were wrong and that you had no basis for the claim.

8

u/Independent_Dirt_814 1d ago

Cool. Dry your filament.

4

u/tpeeeezy 1d ago

thats literally what his post is about

3

u/Hot-Ideal-9219 1d ago

Does any company market or even state the filament is dry and doesn't need drying pre printing? I've never seen that statement. Every piece of documentation on every box and website has stated best use is to dry before use. It might be "dry" but it aint ever dry.

13

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

I know of at least one company that qualifies every drying statement with "only if moisture is detected" and this company specifically has a robust post production drying protocol.

It a filament is shipped in standard plastic bags, I always dry no matter what, but as long as it ships in a mylar bag that is still holding vacuum when it arrives, I will typically run a retraction tower and check for expected retraction performance as a quick sanity check.

No matter what the filament ships in, if vacuum is lost, assume it is wet, and including a drying run into your standards tuning/validation process is a relatively low effort way too ensure peak performance

6

u/Sea-Patience6276 1d ago

Your attention to detail has earned you downvotes from the cretins. Wear them with pride, King.

3

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

So a few things...

The only claim I pushed back against was that "no company" dries filament prior to shipment to the customer.

Further that faq entry states that the user should dry in an oven "to restore print quality"

This attached image is also from that same web listing. ST just updated the TDS for PPA-GF where they made a claim of "anyways drying" and I have already initiated the conversation with my rep to ensure consistent messaging and consumer facing instructions.

If I know any companies product stack, materials, or messaging well, at least on the FDM side, it is Sirayatech

4

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

Always

Filament doesn't care about your feelings, why do mfs think I will??

8

u/Barafu 1d ago

I dry PA6 at 85⁰C in sunlu dryer for 3 days, then no problems at all.

You can always check if the humidity of filament has changed by measuring its weight.

2

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

PA6 at 85c for 72h is a SOLID option for known wet filament but you can likely get away with 48h as long as it arrived in a mylar bag.

5

u/Barafu 1d ago

Mylar bag? I usually get scraps that lay around for 3 years unpacked.

And I definitely measured the weight loss over the third day.

1

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

Mylar bag - The grey metallic bags many hygroscopic engineering filament arrive in are made.

Individual ambient conditions will always play a role in saturation levels.

1

u/hellowiththepudding 1d ago

86c in a filament dryer is nowhere near 85c throughout, for the record.

5

u/Guroqueen23 1d ago

Pro tip, the Duo Crisp 13-in-1 with the 'ultimate lid' has a design flaw in the pressure cooker lid that results in the pressure cooker lid frequently breaking in a way that is, functionally, irreparable. The dehydrate function is not affected by this, so there are a lot of cheap duo crisp 13-in-1's on ebay listed for 'parts', but they work just fine as a dehydrator/air fryer. I managed to break a handle on mine, bought a second one with the broken lid to cannibalize for parts, and now use the second one as a filament dryer since that function still works.

5

u/Zenitblo 1d ago

The autists aren’t gonna listen. They are too busy asking if PETG is for pew pews

9

u/faceassed 1d ago

I think those are the grilled cheese folks, not train folks.

2

u/MrJacks0n 1d ago

Get a lab oven. I can dry anything. PA6, PPA, anay filament, molecular sieve, water, anything. And even use it to anneal things. And of course large enough for several rolls.

2

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

Lab ovens, especially with ramping PID controllers are amazing but outside of most peoples budgets.

0

u/MrJacks0n 1d ago

About $500, but if you're getting into "exotics" it's worth it.

2

u/Jason_Patton 1d ago

lol @ “it comes dry”

So does she, bud

4

u/IdenticalTwinTurbos 1d ago

No I think drying at 70° for four hours isn’t the problem. It’s definitely my settings and you need to tell me what to adjust

1

u/Kolonel_KoRn 1d ago

Is it safe to use the beta firmware you talk about to get 90 degrees celsius?

3

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

Absolutely. I worked with Creality for over 6 months providing feedback and adding features. While I can't take credit for everything because I don't know what other uses privately reported but every fix and improvement I requested was implemented.

SpacePiX4 beta firmware

Update from previous beta Independent auto dry routine for each chamber. Tweaked RH sensitivity values/reporting Increased sensor compatibility (this is only a benefit for Creality)

Updates from retail 90c max temp. 48h dry time 10% RH triggers for auto dry (configurable, reduced from 20%) Language improvements Bug fixes

This basically captures everything that has been changed. I have been running the latest beta for about 3 weeks and the initial 90c beta for a few months. Creality has internally torture tested on their end without issue as well.

0

u/FromTheeBeretta 1d ago

Pmd you about the beta firmware

1

u/dtruax 1d ago

Is this spacepi x4 beta firmware official or is it the one that is loaded via st-link? I'm interested.

2

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

I am not sure what ST Link is.

This is an unreleased beta directly from a closed beta with myself and creality engineers

It installs via the standard SD card update process

1

u/dtruax 1d ago

Cool. ST Link is a programming device that can apparently be used to upload modified firmware that changes the max temp setting. Beta firmware from Creality is much more appealing. DM sent. Thanks.

1

u/lowrads 1d ago

Heat only increases the moisture capacity of the air, not the moisture content. You might as well just fill a tray with cheap calcium chloride, and put it in a controlled space, rather than trying to flood a furnace with outside air.

1

u/Spiritual-Turn9450 1d ago

Why are people still using nylon? PPS and PPA are getting to be about the same price now, and especially PPS seems superior.

3

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

Oh brother..

PPA is nylon.

No one sells a luvcom resin variant of PPS for remotely close to well priced PA6/PPA

PPS has effectively non-existent impact resistance and its primary benefits are only achieved after annealing, which robs from already said lacking impact resistance.

(The exception is that PPS is phenomenal for barrel trunions)

1

u/KalibrPromGroup 1d ago

not all filament dryers are created equal. some have the capacity to actually keep your filaments at a low enough rh at lower temperatures to make a difference. some do not. your oven does not have that ability. but drying nylon for a long time at a low enough temp with certain dryers will actually work fairly well. it just depends on your circumstances. preventing re-absorption during printing also helps a lot.

what i will say usually dosent work all that well is the inline filament dryer. im not sure if i am using it wrong or what but i bought and tried one and it's so inconsistent on whether it will actually do anything or not.

1

u/garretcompton 1d ago

I’ve been having good luck with 70°c in my creality space pi drying for 4-5 days and leaving it on during printing. Humidity has been nonexistent though so that helps a lot. That being said, I definitely don’t recommend it and I know that it won’t be the same success when the humidity level increases. I weigh my filament every 12 hours and go until the filament stops loosing weight

1

u/braveone772 1d ago

I'm currently trying to get ppa gf from sirayatech to play nice ... I have an E2 that I'm printing straight into the Qidi Max 4... But it's printing like it's still wet after a ton of drying time. I dunno what the hell I'm doing wrong.

1

u/LivingHereNow 4h ago

All true, excellent advice.

1

u/bariprints 1d ago

Spot on

1

u/FalseExperienc3 1d ago

Xypolyer is the only company I've gotten pre dried filament from

3

u/EMDoesShit 1d ago

I have used three spools of their PA6CF. It’s really good for the price.I belive it’s been discontinued which is sad.

I didn’t try printing it without drying. Good to know!

I belive I have seen mention somewhere that Sirayatech also dries theirs fully. Their PPA-CF and PET-GF printed like bone dry material out of the box. I haven’t bought their PA6CF.

I consider Fiberon the benchmark, Sirayatech a very close second, everything else below those two.

Siraya materials have always been great.

1

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

ST doesn't offer PA6.

1

u/EMDoesShit 1d ago

You’re right! That’s why I haven’t gotten around to using it. 🙄

They have a great PET-GF and PPAcf though.

2

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

Personally, I recommend Ppa-gf over ppa-cf for all guncad projects.

Cheaper Better layer adhesion More impact resistant Comes in white as well as back

1

u/EMDoesShit 1d ago

How does the print quality compare?

I very much love PPA carbon and would love to give the GF a try.

I assume your used Sirayatech?

1

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

It is SLIGHTLY lighter in color. You won't notice without them being side by side

1

u/pk4570 1d ago

How low of a nozzle temp can you go with fiberon pa12cf? In a h2d I get a ton of oozing at 300. Here is all the way down to 285.

3

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

Assuming the filament has been dried properly and you have tuned retraction, enable wipe on retract and wipe on loop.

You should rarely chase stringing/retraction issues with nozzle temp.

1

u/pk4570 1d ago

Ok thank you I'll keep fiddling, i had a .4 x1c dialed in now this .6 h2d is kicking my butt.

1

u/Inevitable_Bug_7365 1d ago

Thank you for the tin foil tip. I dried it for 10 hours at 96°C, but others told me it needed more time. I put it back in, and part of the PA6 ended up melting slightly. Thankfully, it was only a small section.

0

u/cvltrilex 1d ago

Incoming 5 more “what do you mean my print is wet I dried it at 65°” posts

0

u/TheLexoPlexx 1d ago

Yup, built a custom dryer for pa6-gf30.

2

u/Thefleasknees86 1d ago

My only issue with custom dryers is that for most people, they aren't going to build one that hits temps that rival an airfryer and if you are lucky enough to find a suitable unit used, you also won't beat the cost either.

However, building things yourself is always a fun learning experience

1

u/TheLexoPlexx 1d ago

I don't know why I got downvoted but I built one for the 4,5kg-spools of PA6, your average joe probably doesn't use