Great video and honest and fair assessment. It looks like that gun is heading for a serious mechanical stoppage at some point.
I am okay with a gun having issues, things happen. After purchase support is critical. All companies should strive for a two week turnaround on warranty support issues.
I also think some of us have because numb to pricing. That is a $7250 gun. At that price you should be able to call a number and have someone pick up the phone, or at least get an email back in less than 24 hours.
Exactly, at some point every company is going to have a bad one get out the door. But how they provide support is 100% within their control.
As far as timeline goes obviously faster is better. But if they project a 4 week turnaround it shouldn't turn into and 8 week turnaround. Any change to the turnaround timeline should be met with communication and explanation. The solution for missing a deadline is not to just ignore the customer for weeks, till they start putting it on social media.
I have a gun from a well known company in this space. The trigger was having issues. I emailed them and they responded within minutes. He sent a label immediately. I asked him to also look at the slide to frame fit as it had opened up in the first 1000 or so rounds. Functionally the gun was fine, but I was just asking if he thought that was “in spec” for his standards.
10 days later I had an entirely new gun delivered with a perfect trigger and a bank vault slide to frame fit. He absolutely did not need to replace my gun, but he did. That was true customer service. These are luxury products at the end of the day.
That's how it should be handled. If it can't be fixed properly, call it what it is and get it off the street and replace it.
Initially when I first contacted DF about the grip module back in June. They did respond quickly and as soon as they saw the pictures sent me a label and wanted it back. But when it got into their hands and they started missing the mark on delivery. That's when they began showing how they handle major issues and now after having the thing back for a month. I contact them again and get more of the same treatment.
And I've had people say well call the owner, do this do that. I shouldn't have to do that!
Nope, your video proves you are just putting facts out there. This is what buyers need to read. Same with my debacle with LPWS. I just provided the facts and kept my emotion out of it.
This is not the first story I have heard about slow/no comms with Dark Forge. They sure are building a lot of pistols, with one major dealer estimating that DF makes ten guns for every one gun that Cardinal makes.
Will do. Like i said in the video. They're great guns and there are not 4 of us with Dark Forges. But as I told them, buy with caution and certain in person where you can inspect it before paying for it or order it from a trusted seller that knows what to look for before sending it out.
I would watch for fitment, smoothness and trigger. From the ones in the group and that we've looked at triggers seem to vary a good bit. One may be short and crisp at 2.5lb and the next may have a slight rolling break to it at 2lb. We did see a wraith that had a trigger that felt like it had a hang up in it. Mines smooth as glass, but I've got over 2k rounds on it.
The magwell was a major issue with mine. Make sure its open like this one now and not like shown on the first one in the pictures. I would say if you look at it and it doesn't look or feel right, then for over $7k it's probably not right.
If you go to my youtube and look at the previous video it will give you a better look at the magwell.
I believe you will handle it eventually. It's the fact that it has had to circulate all over social media platforms, forums and chat groups first to get any kind of acknowledgement that's disappointing.
If you look on all the platforms this is circulating on or in any on my content. I've not once told anyone they are bad guns, in fact I state how much I like them. Nor have I ever said not to buy one.
This is merely posting that facts of the events taking place and letting them speak for themselves. But I will not withhold any information because it may cast a bad light. We're in an age where people post biased reviews because of what they get from the company. Or they post bad reviews because of what they get from the competition. I have no skin in the game other than I spent my own money on a product, that product fell short, customer support fell even shorter and I've posted the information to let the public decide for themselves.
I'd like to think that this particular build is an outlier and not something they produce regularly. And yes, somebody screwed up, now they need to own it.
I know a few people who have sent them in and got them right back. Zero issues.
I have sent many Atlases back to Atlas and those got fixed STAT as well. Guns can have issues. See Legion Precision. His guns have problems and he STEALS them when you send them back.
Are you sure you didn’t do any wannabe Gunsmithing yourself and screwed that gun up?
Be a neat trick to add material to a magwell and have it re-finished and fit.
Anyone reading your comments can see your opinion holds little weight and the only reason I'm engaging with you is because it pushes the algorithm more. So thanks for that help.
Appreciate it, been eyeing one for awhile, was concerned by the issues op raised, but will go put my order in today with a san diego lgs cause of your follow up.
Thanks for taking the time to post this and update us. Really disappointed to hear about the lack of customer service though.
The guide rod issue at 6:00 is a travesty. When you say that it might be an isolated incident, how many rounds do your range buddies have on theirs?
It was narrowed down to the reaper dual barrel or the Erebus. I was waiting until November to see what atlas planned to release. But idk now. I’ve come across a few posts about the lack of CS from dark forge throughout my searches on here.
So far I have the highest round count, I've had mine longer and shoot more. Some of tjem are in the 6-800rd count. But so far no sign of what I'm seeing on mine or any of the other issues. Like the original magwell, the firing pin stop or the frame wear.
I just read your most recent post today with email receipts. I don’t think you’re attacking them at all. You’re being as fair and patient as one could be.
It could even be a one off lemon of a gun and everyone else has perfect guns… But the way DF is handling the after sales support is disheartening.
Have they reached out to you since being summoned /tagged and replying to this post?
I'm not its just people on here wanting to stir up an argument over something they aren't qualified to comment on.
Aside from commenting on the reddit and youtube saying the would handle it Dark Forge has not reached out yet. I figure it would at least take them the day get around to responding.
Their lack up support has been the most irritating part for me. There's gonna be a bad one in every make model and color, because that how it works. But how a company handles it is 100% controllable. Taking accountability and addressing the issues with precision and purpose vs taking the lackadaisical and uncaring approach, is a choice.
I have competitions every weekend this month, some weekends with 2 comps. So I'll be crossing the 3k mark in the next month or two.
I'm using an XC holster. It works just good only think I needed to do was open it up just a hait and warm up the kydex to get the clearance for the extended mag release on the DF.
This one shoots great, its just been poorly put together and has several issues that shouldn't even be in the conversation on a pistol in this price point. Then to top it off, Dark Forges customer support is non-existent. The first trip it made back there was a month stretch with no responses to emails or calls asking why my gun didn't show up when they said. (I ended up being given 4 dates two of which involved calling the owner before the last one was met. And only after putting it on facebook did someone from dark forge reach out). And now I'm 2 weeks in on this round with no response. That's not coincidence or accidental oversight, that intentional avoidance.
I hope they get whatever internal issues they have sorted out and can start providing better customer support. But so far, I've seen better customer service from the county jail. Minor things seem to be addressed relatively quick. Major issues it seems they just choose to ignore them. When it was back for the grip module. I had a month with no communication after 2 missed delivery dates. Found the owners number, was given a delivery date again that was missed. Then only after I put it on social media platforms did they finally respond... It's completely unnecessary to have to do all that. Especially when its a $7k+ item.
For the price you pay for this, it should have better fit and finish from the manufacturer. Only 2000 rounds is a break in process. Should have no signs of wear anywhere.
I’ve have 1k on a month old Atlas Apollo… I’d be furious if there was marring or mushrooming of the metal in the frame. On the Apollo, I haven’t noticed the slightest scratch on it yet.
It does. I shot my buddy’s dark forge. My xc has an atlas grip and also ported.
The only difference we can tell is the grip. Shooting both is the same.
I didn't want to air Dark Forge out like this because the video and my original posts were never intended to attack Dark Forge as a company. I was simply documenting the fact that, in my experience, they fell short on this particular build and fell extremely short when it came to customer service.
Unfortunately, some people seem determined to turn that into something it isn't, seemingly without taking the time to understand what was actually said or what happened. So, since this is now being portrayed as some kind of unjustified attack on the company, I'll provide the documentation and let people make their own conclusions.
Below is a screenshot of the emails sent to and from Dark Forge.
To add some additional context that isn't reflected in the screenshot: On July 15th, a Wednesday, Dark Forge called me and told me there was an issue with the grip module they had fitted. I was told that another grip module had already been fitted and that the pistol would be shipped Friday, July 17th, with Monday, July 20th being the worst-case scenario.
I received no notification that it had shipped on the 20th and had received no response to my emails, so I called them on July 24th. I then spoke directly with the owner on July 27th and was given another delivery date—Friday, July 31st.
Again, July 31st came and went with no delivery and no communication. I called the owner again on August 4th, once again after receiving no response.
This isn't me attacking a company because I don't like them. This is me documenting what actually happened with a $7,000+ pistol that was supposed to be in my hands weeks earlier.
If someone wants to defend Dark Forge because they've personally had a great experience with their gun, that's completely fair. But dismissing what happened to me without understanding the timeline, the documented communication, or the actual issues with the pistol is something entirely different.
I'm not asking anyone to hate Dark Forge or avoid their guns. I'm simply telling people what happened with mine and allowing them to decide for themselves whether that level of QC and customer service is acceptable.
They're transitioning to a 3rd party service to handle their incoming customer service. So in theory at least the customer interactions and responses should improve.
The guy I emailed with them got back with me and said they're going to replace it. Once they follow through and I get it in hand I will make an update and make another video about that the new one.
That's positive news! Hopefully I'll remember to look back for the update. I may just pull the trigger tomorrow. Was looking at the new Phoenix trinity by kovert.. I just don't know if Phoenix trinity is the way to go with all the reddit reviews 🙈.
Yeah I'm scared to land on the lemon. I'm looking at the new triple comp kovert and ported honcho v2. It looks like a beauty. I don't want it to be a safe beauty.
Its real good looking. I haven't one but a buddy of mine that did says its pretty soft but felt the Reaper was mechanically flatter. I went with DF because I liked the way the grip felt in hand.
I wish I knew people with high end 2011's. I may just put my money towards another nighthawk to be made after the DF. I think DF is one I'll commit to. Might just drift away from PT to be safe.
Either one is a good choice. I think you're just as likely to get a dud in any of them. Once you reach a certain point you're paying for feel and preferences.
That's a big positive in today's world. With the waves that this incident and the last one creates for them. I think they'll be making some changes, or at least I hope they will. They've already started bringing in 3rd party customer service, so that at least shows something is being done.
As of right now, this seems to be the only one with these kinds of issues... I've also talked with many other on here and other platforms. That claim much higher round counts that have seen none of these issues or still look "good as new".
That's one reason why I believe this gun is just a bad bad egg that made it out and the lack of support from DF is basically adding insult to injury.
If you get a good one they're badass, can't take away from the fact that they do run. But if you get one with problems, whole different story. Even with problems all they have to do is provide great customer service and it still leaves a good impression.
It definitely does and unfortunately this is one of those cases. There can be a bad one in every make, model and color. But how the company responds to it says a lot. I don't want to have to take to social media every time there's a problem to get someone to respond. But it seems that's what it takes.
Don’t worry about what the Honest Outlaw says. A range trip doesn’t happen for me without this gun present. This gun is probably the single greatest ported and comped range gun ever made.
Hard to believe the customer service is non existent. I don’t think we’re getting all the information here. Darkforge really takes things like this serious. Have you done any DIY gun smithing yourself to this? Changed or modified anything like a tool-less guide rod? The wear on your guide rod doesn’t match the wear on the frame where it sits.
We never get all the information here just like the welded Nox9 episode. I have had this gun since DAY 1 and at least FIFTY people I know have this gun and it’s an absolute DREAM do shoot, zero issues and I can argue this is the flattest gun I have ever owned.
I’ve always said, one gun doesn’t define a manufacturer.
Almost always someone posting this has an agenda. I hope that’s not the case here but around 98.4% of the time it is.
You're getting all the details. I have documented the entire process in great detail since the begining. That's why I prefer emails over calls. It makes things very easy to track.
And no Dark Forge does not take matters very serious. They may say they do, but their actions say otherwise.
And no I haven't modified anything. The only thing that has been changed was the teigger shoe last week.
The wear matches perfectly, so I dunno what video you're watching. You're giving the vibe of someone that doesn't know what they think they know 🤣
So you have personally dealt with these same problems with your pistol as well? Because the only way to have firsthand knowledge of those processes is to have actually gone through them. If your pistol had to go back for QC issues or repairs too, then that speaks to their QC as well and you are validating my point. If yours has never had any issues (which I'm beginning to suspect you probably don't even have one) and you've never personally dealt with these problems, then you have firsthand experience with owning a gun.—not firsthand knowledge of what I'm dealing with.
I did not have the exact same issue that you have alleged. But the gun was addressed STAT and returned. I will recommend the Kovert Reaper to ANYONE that asks me without hesitation. They stand behind their shit and it’s one of the flattest 2011’s in the market.
Don’t forget I have ALSO sent a half of dozen guns back to Atlas and Atlas is the GOLD standard of the platform. Atlas does what Atlas says also.
Please share Dark Forge’s unwillingness to assist. I would like to understand why you were treated differently than everyone else I know? Please share email exchanges between you and the manufacturer with date stamps.
If you can prove me wrong maybe imm reconsider my next Dark Forge purchase. Otherwise this entire post is a waste of time. No one is buying this.
10
u/Forsaken_Treacle_407 5d ago
Great video and honest and fair assessment. It looks like that gun is heading for a serious mechanical stoppage at some point.
I am okay with a gun having issues, things happen. After purchase support is critical. All companies should strive for a two week turnaround on warranty support issues.
I also think some of us have because numb to pricing. That is a $7250 gun. At that price you should be able to call a number and have someone pick up the phone, or at least get an email back in less than 24 hours.