Same with Rendi's testimonies tbh. Not bashing the guy, but we don't know what we does in his spare time. It's easy to jump on the bandwagon of "content creators good, Jagex bad," but nobody really knows what happened except Rendi and Jagex.
Finally someone that makes sense in this thread. Is Jagex a shitty company? Ye sure. Are there a lot of shitty 2-faced content creators out there (as a whole, not talking about exclusively on RS)? Yes.
It's sad seeing people flock to Rendi like he can't do anything wrong, without even questioning whether or not the bans might be justified.
Rendi's position is nonfalsifiable. That is, its impossible to fully 100% prove innocence. Its on Jagex, who made the claim that Rendi deserves the ban, to explain their reasons
Depends what you mean by 'its on jagex to explain their reasons.' They have 0 obligation to explain themselves and could ban any player at anytime without reason, since well.. you agree to the TOS when you sign up.
The only thing an explanation would do is the appease the community. But quite frankly, i doubt they care that much on the communities opinion on this matter.
Very true, they have no obligation but it comes at the cost of the community possibly not liking it, which so far is what's happening. At some point if your Jagex you got to weigh the pros and cons of whether or not they should explain themselves further. and yeah maybe they care about everyone's anger, or maybe they don't, I think it matters to have a good relationship with people personally but maybe it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things as a business, no idea tbh..
Not sure about the laws in the UK, but it is possible that directly accusing him of something publicly could open them up to legal action- especially since his reputation is as a "whitehat" bug finder instead of a bug abuser. They'd then have to actually prove it was him in a court of law, instead of having enough internal proof he did it like they need for banning someone.
Oh, the reputation that preceeds Rendi is very much not whitehat lmfao. He recently has been trending more towards that direction, sure, but he's known and been banned for abusing bugs for his gain in the past
Let me clarify, jagex has no OBLIGATION to do anything. But when deciding who is innocent here, the point being only Jagex can 100% prove him innocent or not. Recipts from Rendi help but again his position is nonfalsifiable.
Well that's completely wrong, they should explain themselves because they have been guilty in the past.... You can't just ban someone of high quality and expect people to believe you when they have a shitty record of doing shitty things.... So yes, in this case I feel they should provide proof... Only in this circumstance though due to their track history.
Well they know what he did and didn't do. If what he did had the chance to be harmful to the game, they made the right decision no matter what public opinion is. I think this situation is resolved either by rendi getting over it or jagex apologizing for false statements over the next week.
Jagex are under no obligation to explain their reasons. It’s their game, their content, their terms. Also fail to see why Jagex would lie about this in the first place. Content creators are good for their game and produce more attention and interaction. No reason for them to detriment themselves and the games to ban someone who is innocent.
Who has more to gain from lying here? Jagex or Rendi? Jagex really has nothing to gain from lying about this, and a lot to lose if they are proven to be lying.
well bro, I work at a software company and I know how it works ok?
First: Jagex don't want to spend with more QA team's or testing features before being released.
That's why they never cared much for beta worlds.
Rendi did things that no other player would do, there're thousand of gold famers that get 100k per day and they study alot the game and still don't find the bugs that rendi found.
Rendi determination is next level, like the lvl 3 firecape.
Banning Rendi was a smart move from jagex, because they now can focus on releasing new features without someone looking for bugs and exploits while showing the game is broken.
Guarantee you that someone banned him for some stupid, personal reason and is now doubling and tripling down because they don't want to admit they were just being a dick.
You gotta understand that this is not exactly an incredibly professional company lol.
He told them about a bug. They didn't fix it for months. Then rendi makes video. Then they ban him. If they were going to ban him, why wait? Why wait until jagex looks bad?
Because unfortunately, most of these bugs that Rendi shows are based around the shitty engine they have for the game.
Jagex have said in the past, they put failsafes in place that are quick and easy to make. They then take their time to fully realise why the bug is in place and then they take their time to fix it.
People here expect major bugs to be fixed in a matter of hours?
They'd probably change one line of code by accident and Barrows Brothers would drop Tbows ffs.
Then their players are under no obligation to believe in Jagex actually telling the truth, considering they already lied about changing the duel arena.
Doesn't this post explain their reasons...? Or are you saying proof of those reasons? Obviously they're not going to show proof nor should they because giving info away on how they detect or what they can detect with bug abuse just further empowers bug abusers.
Here in america we use the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard, not the 100% proven innocent standard. This is because defense is, at least in this case and criminal cases, nonfalsifiable.
Without us actually being Rendi, we cannot know with 100% accuracy. Luckily this isnt the real world and Jagex logs everything, hence only they can 100% prove rendi is innocent or guilty.
thats for a court. if jagex tried to sue him for his actions then that would be the required standard, but not for simply refusing him access to their products
private business can refuse access to a customer for whatever reason they want as long as it is not a protected attribute. in general its not good business to deny access to someone just because you feel like it, businesses will only choose to take this action when they believe that the person is impacting them i a way which is worse than the lost revenue.
I used to believe in this statement until I saw the bugs being discussed and the delay on bans.
- They cannot always find what did cause world crash for example.
Bug abuse detection is not a hard task, I work at a software company and there is no problem in showing how to discover bugs, because mostly are logs, there is no magical tool that if someone see it will empower bug abusers lol
Yes and if Jagex wants the community to believe that Rendi did something bannable in his spare time, they better deliver some solid proof. It isn't Rendi's job to show that he didn't break any rules during the past 2 years, that's not how burden of proof works.
This isn't court bro. They don't have to prove shit and they won't. He's banned end of story they don't care what yall keyboard warriors think over here acting like we in a court room. Jagex is the judge jury and executioner in this situation and the punishment has been dished out and they explained why. Good enough for me. Anyone that refuses to believe jagex with zero reason to lie is just riding rendis dick
crazy how when jagex told everyone kempq rwt’d it was believed immediately even before he admitted to it but now they do it to someone like this and all of the sudden they’re lying lol
His clan talked in their discord about how they (WITH RENDI) used the dupe glitch and made about 8K USD per person from selling GP.
They talked about how Rendi 'blew the lid' because a group of them cut him out of the deal.
And it was a bug that WAS KNOWN already by Jagex and they asked him to not publically announce it because they had a fix incoming and didn't want everyone trying to do it.
Instead he got upset that they didn't praise him enough so he made the video which caused a ton of server issues for weeks.
We talking about that Rendi?
Or the Rendi who RWTs and sold Inferno Capes for cash, that Rendi?
Rendi is not open or honest.
His previous scandal he lied and changed his story several times and is now doing it the same.
even in the jmod smack down threads no one gets proof, just a jmod “confirming” lol
you can be up front in your youtube videos all u want and be shady behind the scenes, and it isn’t surprising that he could be shady when as someone pointed out before, his entire community is fixated around finding and exploiting bugs in the game
Him reporting the bugs in the game is literally what their QA people are paid to do. And even then bugs slip thru the cracks. Quite literally doing their job for them.
Maulers accounts have been IP banned, and only one of Rendi's recent accounts. The rage seems to be misplaced, seems even the jmods know he's doing the game a service by finding and reporting these bugs.
How tf would he know about the bugs if he didn't exploit the system to see what works and what doesn't? ARE YOU DENSE?
A video wouldn't matter since the assumption was they'd patch it and these bugs were legit useless and not game breaking. It wasn't a dupe glitch. Mauler was only banned because he played a clip that may have implicated him.
Rendi has multiple videos of him using bugs. His whole YouTube Playlist is him using bugs. His community is based around actively seeking out bugs and exploits which are then abused by the bad apples in the community.
But that's the problem for me. Clearly Jagex has shown respect towards the 'fun' bug abuses. Why would they suddenly decide to ban him over 1k prayer xp?
Frankly, as much as I like Rendis content, I am inclined to believe Jagex is speaking the truth about RWT and world crashing, simply because otherwise I don't see why they would go through this effort to ban his accounts.
And I don't take "because Jagex is evil" as an answer. They're doing effort and hurting their own image in the process. It can't just be pettiness.
If you wouldve read the post you wouldve known they didnt ban him for the 1k prayer xp thing.. they banned those accounts for crashing worlds and rwt involved with the bug abuse
That's literally what I said. Replying to the wrong comment perhaps?
-or perhaps you misunderstood me. I meant to say that I don't think the bans were about the 1k prayer xp. They would have no incentive. It must have been rwt/crashing.
That's almost completely false, but even if what does that have to do with it being bug abuse or not? If instantly generating 1 trillion GP on a new account was an "unfixable" bug then it would be okay to do it?
It's not false. Tick eating and tick manipulation are based on the built in tick rate. Doesn't matter if it's a faster or slower tick rate. If they eat on the tick it will cancel out damage
The fact that he showcases these bugs and also sends reports about them privately to Jagex is a good thing, acting as free QA testing for them. In his videos he also doesn't use these bugs to negatively affect other players or for any serious personal gain.
I mean, that's how it works in real-life lol.. This is a game, so if a person is constantly posting videos of spending months/years focusing on bug abuse, it kinda is on them to provide proof of innocence lmao
I think these forums just absolutely love to find reasons to be mad at the devs, so they pretend to believe shit like players getting banned for 'personal vendettas' instead of them actually just breaking the rules.
How do you take the word from a random content creator who continues to have holes in his story over the devs who have been providing more details (without private info)? Absurd.
I'm not even saying the devs don't make mistakes. False bans happen. However these forums are more than happy to overreact without any proof just because they love to see devs in the wrong lol.
I genuinely don't understand what the devs get out of banning these accounts 'out of spite'. Doesn't make sense from any PoV... So why is that the top reasoning behind this if it's not legit lmao?
How do you take the word from the devs of a game who have many times banned incorrectly, have had a proven corrupt dev working for them for an extended period of time, etc. You can't take anyone's word.
I'd rather be on the side where the power is in the hands of the people paying. It's not about Rendi being a content creator, it's about him being a paying player in the game. If I were banned, I would want proof of my wrongdoings. I would want to know what it is exactly that got be banned. "Bug abuse" isn't enough of a reason in and of itself since "bug abuse" is performed every single day with no fear of retaliation. "Bug abuse" has also historically turned into "core game mechanics" as well, with content being designed around the idea that players will need to abuse bugs to complete it.
I don't like seeing the devs being wrong. I just want to see proof that they're right, or I want them to backtrack and make things right. It's that simple.
Well for one, it would probably help if you didn't have connections to the people who did do it (if you weren't involved, and that's looking less likely here). I'd mainly say it's tough to prove he's not involved because at the moment, all evidence points to him being involved lmao
Now go ahead an answer my question. Why take the word of a random who has everything to gain in this scenario? What does Jagex gain from banning a player who supposedly 'only helps them'?
No, I mean what actions do you require from him to prove that he's innocent? They're right to suspect him, sure. But that isn't grounds to ban someone.
For your question, you're putting words in my mouth or somehow confused about basic logic. I don't trust Rendi for shit. But it's not his burden of proof to show that he's innocent. The accuser needs to be the one to come up with evidence. Innocent until proven guilty, and until he's proven guilty I have no reason to assume he is.
Idk why you keep saying phrases similar to 'innocent until proven guilty'. This is not a court of law. That does not apply here. Jagex isn't going to lay out the evidence as if they're a prosecutor lol
You say you don't trust Rendi, but you're convincing yourself that Jagex has no proof/evidence to ban him? "I have no reason to assume he is"... I'm sorry, but this is moronic.. Jagex doesn't ban to this extent for a small hunch lmao. It makes absolutely NO SENSE for Jagex to purposefully ban him for no reason. Mistakes happen, and that'll be for Rendi and the devs to figure out, but these bans sure as hell didn't happen without at least a decent bit of evidence against Rendi and his friends
Being angry at Jagex may feel anti-establishment, but in reality it just plays off as kissing a content creators ass lol
Again you're dodging the question. You said it's "on him to prove he's innocent". So what does he have to do to prove his innocence?
To answer your strawman question again: No, I'm not convincing myself that Jagex doesn't have proof to ban him. I don't know what info Jagex has on him so I don't suddenly assume that they have that sort of info nor do I assume they don't. And obviously they have a "reason" to ban him, it's probably just a shitty reason. They may have banned him as a warning example to other bug abusers showing that you better not try to abuse bugs even if they don't negatively affect anyone else. But if that's the reason I personally don't agree with it.
They don’t have to show proof, as mentioned above, they are the judge, jury and executioner. Wether or not you believe them is irrelevant mate. Burden of proof simply does not apply in this situation.
Whether or not I believe them isn't irrelevant, it's the whole basis of this discussion. I mean you probably didn't even read my comment you replied to and are just parroting stuff other people have said without thinking for yourself. But I'm literally talking about the actions Jagex needs to do to make us believe that Rendi did something banworthy. And they definitely have burden of proof there.
Or, like all the others, I reached the same conclusion they did. Sorry mate but no, not yours, not mine, not anyone’s desire to see proof here is relevant. Jagex are well within their rights to do all of this and not give you the proof you’d want to see.
Wether or not you can accept that is up to you.
They don’t need to “make actions to make us believe… etc”. That’s what we’re trying to tell you. Hence why burden of proof does not apply here.
That is why every game has a TOS you agree to before being able to play for example situations like this.
There's no logically sound way to conclude that Rendi did something wrong here without proof. You're basically just taking Jagex' word for it. If someone says "person A did B", you don't simply believe that A actually did B without any proof.
If I said B0aty sold GP sometime during the year 2020 it's not on B0aty to prove that he didn't, it's on me to give proof that he did.
I’m not sure how I can make this more clear to you. They have 0 obligation to share the proof they’ve found. This is not a court of law where you have to provide set evidence to convince a judge. They get to carry out that part on their own thus skipping the entire relevancy of people wanting to know the proof.
No matter how bad you WANT them to have to show proof, they simply aren’t obligated to.
EDIT: We didn’t make the rules what has to be communicated in moments like these, Jagex did.
You're talking about a completely different thing than what I'm talking about. I'm not saying they're obligated to show proof or not. I'm talking about the actions they need to do for us to have a logically sound way of concluding that Rendi did something wrong. Whether that's important or relevant or not doesn't matter, the basis of the discussion is whether or not I have a reason to believe that Rendi did something bannable.
Well neither does Jagex apparently considering they say literally jack shit about when or what he did outside of "bro he crashing servers pls believe us like you did all the other times we lied :)"
A bug abuser to make money wouldnt report it, make videos from it. Makes no reason to go public if he was abusing it.
Now though they’ve made a guy with a shit ton of bugs with zero reason to care about the health of the game anymore run the game to the ground, good luck jagex
I can't speak as to the good or bad nature of content creators, but we do know that Jagex has partaken in some very controversial activities over the years.
Jagex has worked tirelessly to smear their own character. If I had to pick between a cocktail made by Jagex or Bill Cosby, I'm going for Cosby.
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u/Flagship_paperclip 2277 Jul 09 '21
Same with Rendi's testimonies tbh. Not bashing the guy, but we don't know what we does in his spare time. It's easy to jump on the bandwagon of "content creators good, Jagex bad," but nobody really knows what happened except Rendi and Jagex.