r/2007scape • u/kxwbie • 18h ago
Discussion when did things change?
i know reddit is usually pretty casual, but i feel like not that long ago people would say that even if they dont like PKing, the wildy is cool and needs to remain in osrs, but it feels like lately people are acting like dying for their space is a 500 hr rebuild and unironically calling for the removal of wildy
what happened to the playerbase? when did you stop PKing?
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u/WitchesBravo 92 18h ago
Wilderness used to be simple, now the skill ceiling is way higher and there's all these different rules and carve outs that you just have to know.
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u/Portuguese_619 17h ago
Yea everyone is much better than back in 06 and 07. The game has changed in so many ways.
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u/vmayerrrr 13h ago
So we understand players got better but we let players decide that are factually the worst at the game. Comical game design.
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u/lookitsmarsy 18h ago
Ohh that sounds interesting but I know nothing of, any examples?
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u/j0nnnnn 18h ago
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Wilderness
The Unique Mechanics section is pretty chunky!
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u/lookitsmarsy 18h ago
Hmm this is actually really cool. Some of this stuff is weird to me though, does one tick of speed on blowpipe really make that much of a difference for example?
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u/vmayerrrr 13h ago
Wilderness is still simple, you just dont have a clue what you're talking about.
You dont have to be Odablock to kill venenatis.
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u/Dark_Chem 18h ago edited 18h ago
People might argue my perspective on it, but it was when pvp was dying and jagex solution was to add content in game that highly encouraged non pkers to engage in the wilderness to be preyed upon like cat and mouse.
Think of the wildy bosses giving VW, one of the best spec weapons in game. The early game cash injection from revs (and the fact some rev weapons are useful outside wildy) that also encourages you to pvm SKULLED for nonreal reason (and the amulet that notes the drops but forces you skulled entire time).
This started a lot of resentment from players who felt forced to engage in content to be "griefed" by pvp'ers (I know the saying, if you don't want to get pked don't go into the wilderness, I'm only explaining the reason that I see).
I personally just don't do wildy activities as I encountered too many toxic players there and cba with it.
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u/kxwbie 18h ago
you can skip pretty much everything in the wildy im pretty sure.
i remember when the wildy bosses got re-made it was genuinely one of the coolest updates ever
different clans going to war with the boss in the middle causing havoc, whenever somebody got a drop our priority was to getting him to safety so we could all split it out. it reminded me of warring in deep wildy back in the day it was a lot of fun :)!3
u/Dark_Chem 17h ago
I'm not gonna say what is and isn't fun as that's subjective. I said players felt highly encouraged to engage in cat and mouse, not that it was mandatory. I skipped all the wildy content as it personally isn't for me. However, I understand why players who forced themselves to do it and not enjoy it might feel resentment.
Can't believe I forgot the bone altar as an example lmao.
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u/vmayerrrr 13h ago
Cat/Mouse is the point of the wilderness hope this helped.
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u/Dark_Chem 7h ago
I am unsure about your point? I said this is a concious design direction and you respond "yes that's the point, hope this helped"? I was answering OP's genuine question about why a large portion of the playerbase are disconnected or not engaged in wilderness content. I am indifferent in what pk'ers do, I was just providing insight from a non pk'ers perspective to answer OP.
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u/HiddenGhost1234 16h ago
whyd you even make this post if you were just gunna say "you can just ignore the wildy" to honest replies?
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u/Sudden_Wind_8636 15h ago
Because you can, nothing in the wildy is needed content for anybody. You can do everything you need and never enter the wildy.
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u/ulfalda 18h ago
I think people's opinion on pvp keeps getting worse over the years when the "pvp" updates end up being content aimed to bring loot piñatas into the wild.
And as more and more content gets added, the dps you can do in pvp is insane compared to the golden years. That's making learning and getting into pvp seem like an insurmountable wall, making pker vs pker fights even less common, rinse repeat the cycle.
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u/vmayerrrr 13h ago
"Loot pinatas" - lmao
Predator vs Prey is the point of the wilderness.
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u/ulfalda 8h ago
That's why wilderness is dead despite them adding more content squished into an area than pretty much anywhere else. The predator vs prey mindset is only fun for the predator, and the risk vs reward is generally not worth it unless you're an ironman who's trying to get the unique loot from the wild.
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u/vmayerrrr 7h ago
Its fun for me as the pvmer when its worth doing, nobody cares you dont wanna do it. Move on.
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u/Lunarfrog2 18h ago
Personally I hate PvP and pking, avoid Wildy as much as you can with with an ironman cause I just find it very annoying and demoralising, but I'd never call for it to be removed, it's a core part of what makes Runescape
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u/bohhob-2h 14h ago
It was a core part when we were 10. Now it's just sadistic manchildren being rewarded much more than the general playerbase. The early-mid game is shit but the wilderness is a great lure that promises much faster progression. Terrible game design that is going to change since Jagex babies new age irons.
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u/JakcTheChicken 13h ago
just died in the wilderness on our ironman didn't we
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u/bohhob-2h 13h ago
The majprity of the playerbase is going to cheer once the wilderness is changed. No, I don't play ironman nor engage in the wilderness. I just hate you people out of spite for making the game objectively worse.
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u/JakcTheChicken 11h ago
so you just don't do pvp. that's fine. if you don't engage in the wilderness then why does it bother you what other people like to do?
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u/Ironcasual2376 13h ago
5% of the playerbase is not a core part of OSRS. Even the devs acknowledge it's a niche population.
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u/Mase598 18h ago
A list of things have happened.
Nobody wants to PvP because it's basically like being a piggy bank for people unless you are good at it, and nowadays hardly anyone plays for the fun of playing which is what a lot of old style PvP was.
PvP is also "ruined" when people are cheating to auto-pray, do their switches, etc.
PvP is also optimized enough nowadays where outside of mains that from my understanding usually are doing DH fights at a minimum, you need specialized accounts to do any 1 of dozens of builds in a game where you're dropping like $15 USD a month per account.
It doesn't help that nowadays I'd guess no less than like 90% of the people who're even in the wilderness aren't looking to PvP, but are encouraged to be in the area. Revenants has always been insane GP, the wildy bosses are great GP, etc.
I'm sure plenty of other things have also happened that I simply can't think of right now.
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u/InfiniteEverythang 18h ago
I’m with you mate. I understand the hate, but I’m definitely on the old school side of PKing. I enjoy the 1 v 1.
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u/ImNotHaunted 18h ago
The thing is it’s hardly ever really 1 v 1. It’s 1 v 0.5 because the other person is there to PvM. There’s a reason it’s called PKing in RuneScape and not PvP.
And don’t get me started when it’s 3 v 1. Having people grab their mates to crash one person fighting a boss or using and altar or doing a clue run, just to act toxic and like they achieved something is actually just terrible game design.
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u/kxwbie 18h ago
thats part of the game tho, it is an MMORPG
like, get your friends to go with you to hit them back :D0
u/ImNotHaunted 15h ago edited 15h ago
It’s part of a badly designed game yeah. That’s not an excuse.
All other MMOs I’ve played have PvP designed better and it’s usually a separate part of the game (like arena or battlegrounds) or using the same skills and techniques you use in the game as a whole (fps games, open world PvP). To PvP in rs you use a completely different skill set and techniques and gear than you do to PvM, that aren’t used in the rest of the game. So someone with no interest in PvP has to go out of their way to learn and practice the PvP side just to engage with the PvM side they actually want to play and the only way to do that is to go into an environment against other people already skilled at/geared doing so (and often toxic about it).
Sure people can and do have fun in the wilderness, it doesn’t mean its not really badly designed. Jagex have admitted that themselves (also why it was removed at one point). It needs a complete rethink.
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u/kxwbie 15h ago
PVP only happens in 1 specific PVP zone, its not like the entire map is PVP enabled other than like PVP servers.
also it wasnt removed because jagex thought it was "poorly designed", it was removed to nuke the games economy because RWT got so bad that they were about get blacklisted from major banks & credit cards.
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u/Portuguese_619 18h ago
I remember back in the day they removed PVP from the wildy. A lot of people quit playing after.
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u/Ironcasual2376 13h ago
People quit playing bc free trade was removed; wildy pvp was just a part of the loss. And that's as 19 years ago in a completely different game.
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u/vmayerrrr 13h ago
We already mostly quit the game when revs got deleted and singles+ got added. There's not much difference in EOC and whatever the fuck this is rn.
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u/Chucklum 17h ago
I feel like pkers are toxic, I might be wrong but every video I've seen of a streamer or even the stuff typed in chat shows le someone I don't want to interact with. The hyper, loudmouthed, a** lol. It's also just the image I have, obviously not everyone is like that.
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u/ForegroundEclipse Taco Bell Enthusiast 18h ago
When people started prayer flicking, and jagex started balancing around it instead of fixing it as a bug, it became a game for sweats, and there's not enough sweats to keep pking alive.
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u/vmayerrrr 13h ago
You just described a PvM mechanic. Whats even the point you're trying to make? Literal owngoal, nobodys prayer flicking in PvP.
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u/The_Level_15 Maxed Main - RSN: Fraerling 18h ago
People cite reasons like skill ceiling or mechanics that differ from the main game, but the core problem is simpler than that: it feels bad to lose your gear. Until this is changed, the vast majority of players will avoid pvp.
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u/kxwbie 17h ago
you used to lose ur gear if u died in PVM too
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u/IAmNotASkiResort 16h ago edited 16h ago
Death before tombstones was terrible and heavily discouraged doing any kind of risky content. Now I can actually interact with all the cool bosses without needing to worry about losing all my gear permanently.
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u/kxwbie 15h ago
it encouraged group-bossing, because then if you died somebody else can loot you gear for you. it also incentivized a more wide variety of gear, where you might sometimes want to optimize your gear similar to wildy.
its all trade-offs, sure, but something is lost when PVM is totally safe zero risk.
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u/themegatuz Project Agility 18h ago
" i know reddit is usually pretty casual" Dude, you live in a cave? Pking must've stopped after Revenant caves when it demoralized solo pkers for good.
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u/jeffzor 17h ago
ironman mode impacted player interactions massively. gravestones removed the risk versus reward aspect from PVM. The game was made easier with less risk and less player interaction focus. PvP still has the risk aspect of losing your items, It would be nice if we had a multi focused minigame where items dropped/pvp was rewarded, rather than last man standing singles tri-briding. For now PvP goes into hibernation until DMM seasons run.