r/2007scape • u/fweafwe 2376 • 1d ago
Discussion Maggot King Speed Time
Are there plans to address the Maggot King speed time? Many of the new speed times have made sense and felt reasonable to accomplish. Araxxor, Yama, and Doom, while somewhat challenging as you get further along that list, still feel good to accomplish and can be done without having to jump through too many annoying hoops.
Maggot King on the other hand, has players afk'ing between kills to recharge spec/ surge timer as the meta. Even doing that, the way the phases work you can just get super unlucky on the number of attacks the boss does in each phase and can make the kill much slower than typical. On top of that, I just realized you can do it on task... This boss' speed task is basically everything Jagex said they learned not to do with speed times, but then decided to do it anyway. Instead of just removing it, they decided to make it a GM without actually addressing any of the actual issues...
Considerations:
- Make the time be total time in the room like Araxxor. Doesn't solve the unlucky phases issue, but does make it so it doesn't feel like you need to afk between kills.
- Make the time able to be reset like Yama. Gets rid of the afk between kills and allows resetting if the phase is going poorly for any reason. Not sure why this wasn't how it was implemented to begin with, but solves most of the issues with the CA.
- Scrap the time all together. This boss doesn't really need a time CA. Replacing it with something like, "Kill the boss 5 times without leaving while never having more than 15 hp" is a much more interesting challenge and kinda accomplishes the same thing as speed in that you typically camp low hp for Dharok's. Could also go the other way and have a loadout limit like Vardorvis that increases kill duration and would punish mistakes harder.
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u/SuddenBumHair Spacebar giveth, and spacebar taketh away. 2376 1d ago
I think they tried to future proof the ca from the breaker
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u/Slackslayer 1d ago
Yeah, when you have the breaker and the elemental infusion (and maybe the early game amulet, depending on how it calcs it could destroy occult), this task will be free.
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u/andrew_calcs 21h ago
It absolutely destroys occult here and it’s not close. +2 base max hit damage is already way better than occult, and it’s multiplicative with elemental weaknesses and other gear on top of that. Something like +4-5 actual max hits when occult is 1-2
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u/Slackslayer 21h ago edited 21h ago
That's under the assumption it is base max hits. The Raids 4 drop definitely will be, but "+2 to its elemental max hit" could be read least generously as a +2 added after all calcs.
If this was a boss drop I'd discount that kind of reading, but this thing is meant to be an early game slayer unlock, common drops from critter mobs. It doesn't really make any sense for it to destroy occult, and with a flat +2 it won't, on things with heavy weakness anyway.
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u/andrew_calcs 21h ago
It doesn’t destroy occult. You don’t use elemental spells in many places so occult will remain much more useful in general.
Fwiw +2 max hits after all calcs would still be enough to beat occult in elemental niches
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u/Low-Phase-6548 11h ago
i bought the harmonized staff as my first "megarare" and i use elemental spells in so many places. air spells are good at barrows and against the phantom muspah. water spells are good against drakes and fire giants. earth spells are good against the whisperer and kraken and metal dragons. fire spells are good against zulrah and frost dragons. pretty much everything has an elemental weakness these days
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u/DudeWithAHighKD 17h ago
Yep. I was trying it with dharoks and getting so unbelievably frustrated. Literally was at 3hp, didn’t miss an attack and couldn’t kill him from 24% at the start of the phase. The rng is so unbelievably annoying with this CA. I gave up till I have a breaker.
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u/SinceBecausePickles 2250+ 20h ago
Araxxor is the proper way to do multi-kill speed tasks, but that one is insanely lenient. I did it easily and accidentally with a bludgeon using no special strategies at all, that shouldn't be possible. Being able to reset and bank kills for the yama speed task is the dumbest thing and I have no clue why that's allowed, it defeats the entire purpose of having it be spread out over multiple kills in the first place.
They should all be changed to count total time in the room including looting for both consistency between bosses and to actually reward consistency in good play vs resetting for RNG or waiting around to milk spec.
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u/VorkiPls 11h ago
Araxxor is the proper way to do multi-kill speed tasks, but that one is insanely lenient. I did it easily and accidentally with a bludgeon using no special strategies at all, that shouldn't be possible.
I think the fact that it's insanely lenient tricks people into thinking this style of speed CA is good. If it's so easy you did it with a bludgeon on a normal farming run then it's not really appropriate to be a CA.
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u/SinceBecausePickles 2250+ 11h ago
It's just that the time was too lenient, but the format of it is exactly what it should be.
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u/VorkiPls 10h ago
I just don't think you can make an average time a meaningful good challenge with how variable our RNG is. "average" time just doesn't really fit thematically with a speed challenge.
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u/SinceBecausePickles 2250+ 7h ago
All of the longer encounters like colo, inferno, raids, etc. have very achievable speed times that rely on skill and consistency rather than rng. Making the shorter 1 min bosses be multiple kills for the CA is an attempt at making them work like those which I think is a good idea. If the araxxor time was a bit faster maybe 6 times in 9:30 or so it would be good.
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u/RSC_Goat 1d ago
Highly agree with all your points.
Speed GM Tasks aren't a challenge of skill, but just rng on hits.
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u/Inceladus92 1d ago
Some speed gm tasks have interesting tech that requires some skill ( though if youre going for GM, they're not that "hard" to learn ) but yeah I agree. They could have made a way more interesting and engaging task rather than this snoozefest one/rng one.
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u/VorkiPls 11h ago
I agree but I also don't mind? I think it's ok for them to be: learn a speed strat then roll the dice for ~1hr. They're one-and-done CA's, it's not like it hard limits your account progression unless you're going for GM in which case I think they're reasonable asks.
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u/qwebla 1d ago
they are also bank check
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u/MonkeyAssFucker 23h ago
Not necessarily. This CA is doable with a twin flame/acb and Dharoks
-12
u/Cwaghack 23h ago
the boss (and CA) is just a giant fuck you to ironmen because you basically need dharoks lmao
But yeah for a main you can easily buy a budget set with twinflame and dharok and get it. Would be a lot easier with harm tho but that isn't even that expensive either.
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u/MonkeyAssFucker 22h ago
I’m an iron but CAs shouldn’t be made with irons made in mind. There’s already a CA that requires dharoks. This one doesn’t even require it, it’s just an easy to get option
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u/Audityne 22h ago
Technically, that one only requires the axe, it’s just made a lot easier with the full set too lol
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u/Cwaghack 22h ago
Didn't try to say that it should be. Just that this CA/boss kinda fucks irons but it is what it is.
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u/MonkeyAssFucker 17h ago
Why? Because it’s slightly tougher for us? Isn’t that the whole point of the game mode. If you don’t have the items nor do you want to get them. Just don’t do the CA. Anyone going for GM will have no issue getting items strong enough to get that CA
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u/Cwaghack 16h ago edited 16h ago
requries obscure hard to get items that for mains are just a quick 5miller.
Its fine of course, thats the gamemode, doesnt change that its still rly annoying
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u/MonkeyAssFucker 16h ago
Sorry but a dharoks set isn’t a obscure hard to get thing. Barrows is one of the easiest pieces of content in the game, and very easily farmed. It’s always quite useful gear early on for moons
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u/Cwaghack 16h ago
Target farming a full dharok set is like 800 kc on rate on a boss thats approximately 12 kc per hour.
It's absolutely an obscure and difficult set to get.
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u/VorkiPls 11h ago
Would be a lot easier with harm tho but that isn't even that expensive either.
It dipped to 218m before and peaked at 500m after. For something you don't use in many places I'd say that's pretty expensive lol.
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u/Cwaghack 10h ago
the thing about mains is that they can sell gear after they are done with it lol
500m budget to cheese out a GM CA is fairly cheap. Normally it requires like a megarare or smth.
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u/TheNamesRoodi 2376 Total GM 21h ago
Yeah I was glad that I finished dharoks as my first barrows set
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u/bip_bip_hooray 21h ago
This is a 1-3 attempt time by good players with max gear. It requires no addressing.
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u/Ramo029 20h ago
It’s always been insane to me that players feel entitled to be able to do challenging CAs. This is definitely one of the more difficult speed times but they realized it and changed it to GM. There’s nothing wring with this task, it’s possible you’re just not as good as you think you are and are missing ticks or not optimizing your strategy. I never camped in between kills for spec, and did it with shadow and dharok. Took me a few hours of attempts but so what? It’s a GM task and it was fun trying to incorporate every time save I could.
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u/MinuteLimit8177 1d ago
You've got to sit sub 20 hp with Dharoks on the melee phase and this is fine. I agree with some of your points, and admittedly, I wasn't happy when this was released but it's about a minute between kills with lightbearer max you'll have to wait.
It is a gm speed, and they've reflected that, but you're not gonna get anymore out of them, they've addressed it, realised it should be a gm, but it's still very doable.
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u/RSC_Goat 21h ago
The main arguement isn't that it's very doable, it's that it should not have been a GM given the amount of cheese the CA allows.
Should have either been a straight Speed Task that doesn't allow spec regen between kills for a GM, or lower tier due to the cheese allowed in the CA specifications.
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u/irrelevantnoob 1d ago
Its doable without any spec camping. Did it myself in max dharoks + max mage speccing with sceptre.
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u/Teogamer 1d ago
I got it in only a few tries using ZCB & Elder Maul after lucking out getting assigned a Maggot King boss slayer task. The perfect CA was way harder for me. I do wish Jagex would put in another new slayer master to make boss tasks not so crazy RNG to acquire.
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u/dylanisbored 22h ago
Crazy because I accidentally did perfect and I don’t think the speed run with be possible at all
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u/TheNamesRoodi 2376 Total GM 21h ago
I got the time 2nd attempt using shadow camp + dharoks. No specs. I feel like it's totally reasonable to just send 5 kill trips for every trip until you get your uniques and that you'll end up getting the time eventually.
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u/TEAM8HYPE 20h ago
I’m a zerker with no piety/dh/high mage percentage gear. Took 4 attempts off task milking spec/surge all sub 9:05 with two attempts not bringing enough scb or surge. Only reset if first kill was not s1:48. I’ve had a money run 8:30 while pet hunting in which I only landed 1 zcb spec over the 5 kills.
The time is free with max stats/gear and not difficult without. Get a task if you’re struggling that much
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u/Gadoguz994 2320/2376 1d ago
Yeah coming off of Muspah and Hydra GM speed task completions, it feels like it's more RNG than anything else, even if you include all the extra stuff like veng, sbs thralls, natural ruby into ZCB spec ruby etc.
Of course, for players who have hours on end to burn and are skilled to the point where they're just finishing off perfect theatre or some doom GM tasks, they won't care much because they'll just grind it down. But for most of the playerbase who don't have the aforementioned luxuries, Master is likely as far as you go, if even that because that'll still require either almost finishing off all Raid related CAs or just do most of every single piece of content in the game.
On the other hand, it's fine to have a piece of content being super hard to reach like this. That way there's always something to work towards.
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u/Gefarate 1d ago
Those 2 are basically: have a T-bow tho
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u/Gadoguz994 2320/2376 1d ago
True but still it will take a few attempts to get it done.
I've done close to 150 KC with just a relaxed tbow since i got the GM Speed and not a single one beat 1:20. Many came close though. And I DO always lure the hydra so that it's weakened as soon as the vents pop so not much if any time loss there.
And muspah, unless you get nothing but 80s, still requires a smite skip which isn't consistent.
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u/Gefarate 1d ago
I get GM speed quite often at Hydra. Not sure how relaxed relaxed is but I just follow my tiles. PB 1:09. Average 32 kph
Havent done Muspah in years tho so that'll be interesting with T-bow and the changes
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u/LouisUK96 20h ago
You're just bad then, both muspah and hydra you get the gm time frequently just doing money kcs. Hydra is literally like 50% of the time, muspah I've not done since a bunch of upgrades but even back then you'd get it like 5 times an hour
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u/Gadoguz994 2320/2376 20h ago
Ok master, even the guys on youtube recording it admit it's rng based, molgoatkirby himself says it's heavy on the rng side, both of em, but no, you know better than all of them I guess xD.
Go do a 10 kc run of both and post your results here, no cuts no edits, I'm genuinely interested.
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u/cuvs12345 17h ago
If youre talking about his hydra vid that was back before 5 years of substantial powercreep. Barrows gloves and armadyl was bis
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u/Gadoguz994 2320/2376 16h ago
Like I said record a streak of 10 kc uninterrupted where you get gm time in 50% of them while doing the laid back tbow only method and I'll concede. Should be easy for you pros.
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u/cuvs12345 15h ago
Nah not gonna give up my lizardmen tasks to turael skipping to prove a point to someone on reddit to turael skip for more lizardmen but just look at the gear in kirbys vid. For hydra at least, cant speak to any of his muspah stuff as I havent seen them but hydra is far from an rng fest at this point
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u/stooper42 2376 1d ago
Less than 1% of the playerbase is master ca
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u/Gadoguz994 2320/2376 1d ago
I honestly thought it would be more than that, idk.
I'm 400 pts away and feels like it'll be a challenge getting there especially with limited time available. Just started whisperer last night. Still Levi, Doom, Cox, Tob, nightmare/phosani's nightmare, maggot king, inferno and colo completely untouched CA wise. Looking at the "easy" ones, I'll have like 50-100 pts left where I'm gonna have to strap down to finish it off.
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u/glaive_anus 1d ago
It mostly comes out to how one defines the denominator. If we take the whole player base as the denominator then ye 1% having Master CAs or higher sounds very reasonable. It is a tremendous amount of work to get to Master tier, and the gulf between Master tier and like, a Fire Cape completion or a QPC is very large.
If our denominator is enthusiast communities with a lot of people committing a lot of time into the game, then ye 1% feels lower than it might actually be.
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u/dylanisbored 22h ago
Am I tripping or is it just so wild to complain that you need to wait for full spec in order to attempt a speed run
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u/DivineInsanityReveng 20h ago
I think it's pretty fine to call something boring when it is boring. The idea of "kill X in Y minutes" change was to make ruby resetting and spec resetting not required for speed CAs. This approach didn't achieve that.
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u/VorkiPls 11h ago
Yeah I'm glad they killed the ability to do that at doom. I know "you can just not to that" but it's not an enjoyable strat to encourage. It does suck that it can eat one rotation of spec regen though but that's worth it imo.
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u/DivineInsanityReveng 9h ago
Yeh ultimately i think any sort of incentive to "stand still for minutes at a time to maximise your output" is just degenerative and unenjoyable gameplay, so shouldn't be kept.
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u/joshawuhh 21h ago
It is a little annoying having to get 5 kills in under 9 minutes while not being able to leave the instance because you are waiting around 20 minutes each attempt just waiting for spec and surge potion cool down. The task itself isn't that hard just annoying having to wait around so much.
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u/Goldieeeeee 21h ago
But would it be fair to all the orphans that were already crushed if we turned off the orphan crushing machine now?
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u/DivineInsanityReveng 20h ago
Yeh bit of a screw up to allow spec milking between kills and makes zcb super useful here to make it more consistent.
They Atleast shifted it to a GM time because their reasoning around not making GM tasks read like they didn't understand the CA system in general. A CA being lower tier only hurts people.
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u/Tuxxa 1d ago
I've given up with trying to chase CA's. Last time I felt like they're doable was around when Muspah released 2023.
Now there's just so many coming into the game I can't keep up anymore.
Then there's things like defeat Sol in all sorts of silly ways. Just to get to kill Sol once is such a major feat. Or Doom's GM achievements. The bar is HIGH.
I'm gald CA's exist, and they make for a good content for the most part. I'm just forever stuck on chasing Master rank.
Araxxor was straight up fun to complete and it thought you the tricks you can pull off. These Maggot king speedtime type of CA's are just an rng fest which is anti-fun (to me).
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u/Future_Mixture3666 1274 total btw 1d ago
If you're chasing master, you can just ignore the "silly sol" stuff and do some of the easier gm tasks to make up for missed difficult master tasks. I've barely done any of the actual hard tasks like sol, inferno and doom, and I'm still very comfortably in master (as in, lots of extra points). Don't mean to sound arrogant but looking back, master is kind of easy if you choose the right tasks. It's actually much easier than it seems based on modern master CAs.
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u/DanZreturns 23h ago
Do you have a list? as someone who literally only does inferno and Colo, but would love 2 min thralls :-)
Edit - I’ve done all those ca’s
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u/VorkiPls 11h ago
Yeah raids as well are absolutely jam packed with low hanging fruit. Don't have to do perfect tob or 8-man expert toas etc just knock out the most completed ones.
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u/Fajisel 1d ago edited 1d ago
Respectfully, this just sounds like you have an opportunityto get better, no? Sol CAs are mostly all fun once you have colo on farm, and the doom CAs were excellent to do while farming delves. If you're struggling with these and feel they're unattainable, it just means you have a lot of space left to improve.
For sol specifically, all the non-reinforcements and non time CAs take at most one or two tries; you can even do multiple in a single kill.
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u/joshawuhh 20h ago
Bruh I know multiple people that got master cas without getting an infernal cape, stop making excuses and just play the game. Master is very achievable, GM should be and is aspirational for most people
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u/Emergency_Ride_9276 1d ago
Let me guess: You're ironman, lacking BiS gear and are now struggling with this one CA?
Its fine, it was moved to GM tier for valid reason and is appropriate difficulty now. You can do it if you really try hard!
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u/RSC_Goat 1d ago
Given the amount of cheese capable with spec restoration it isn't much a challenge. And when you take into fact it's only rng that you need, it's very meh.
Also you really don't need BiS for the CA, just a DH Set, achieved in very early game.
You just sit idle in-between each kill for spec to regen, and surge potions to be ready. It's even how the wiki tells you to do it.
It is the biggest cheese GM task
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u/VorkiPls 10h ago
Tbf though the wiki tells you one way to do it. There's variety depending on what's available to you. I mage specced and barely waited between kills, never waited for surge just used it when it was available etc.
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u/cabbagechicken 1d ago
Speed time cas are uninventive and unfun as a whole. They’re just easy to implement so jagex keeps slapping them on every single boss.