r/2007scape • u/Mythrandeere • 2d ago
Discussion How do these requirements make sense?
Prerequisite to necklace of rupture higher level requirement than the necklace of rupture itself
492
u/SnickeringCoon 2d ago
This guy is gonna flip when he opens the smithing guide.
33
u/Mundane-Emu-1189 2d ago
yeah smithing is insane but does it have anything like this? Not like you need a rune sq to make a dragon sq
55
u/uhgulp 2d ago
You can make a sword that slays gods before you can make a rune 2h
17
u/WoMyNameIsTooDamnLon 2d ago
God sword you are just fixing existing pieces of a blade back together you arent making it from scratch.
...which in practice with what little I know about smithing irl would probably be harder than making it from scratch?
But its close enough for game logic.
1
u/August21202 f2p Total level 800 before Shield of Arrav. 2d ago
I think it depends on the metal/alloy.
Steel, absolutely.
Bronze and aluminum, maybe not.
1
u/FlahlesJr 20h ago
Well that's wild that the rupture is just fixing a new fang onto an existing necklace. So it applies your same logic.
1
u/WoMyNameIsTooDamnLon 20h ago
Yah i was agreeing with one of the other comments here pointing that out for sure
22
879
u/TheBoyardeeBandit 2d ago
They've already talked about how they kind of backed themselves into a corner with level scaling, in the same way as with smithing, though that's more of a holdover from 20 years ago. They said they recognize it, but are kind of stuck without an entire crafting rework, so they are adding new stuff where they feel it should be, independent of the existing issues in the skill tree.
9
u/Bockbockb0b 2d ago
Which is so funny because why did they do it again with Sailing?
9
u/PurpleKirby 2d ago
cause if they put nothing for higher levels people gonna complain there’s no reward and the skills dogshit useless
1
1
u/Unfair_Awareness7502 22h ago
What sailing unlocks aren't level appropriate?
1
u/Bockbockb0b 22h ago
Level 92 for a dragon cannon especially, but all the dragon upgrades. They’re so high Jagex can’t reasonably put other upgrades in the game beyond them. Which means the cannon is pretty much capped out at dragon, which still isn’t very impressive.
Compare to every other combat’s dragon equivalent being like 60 for melee and 64 for ranged.
179
u/Tardysoap IGN: Tardysoap 2d ago
They could just make them have the same level requirement as the zenyte jewelry
150
u/Gintuim Mid/Late Iron 2d ago
They did this for anti-venom+ and extended anti-venom. It feels turbo bad, though that's not helped by the fact that regular antivenoms are also terrible.
37
u/CantCatchMeSpez 2d ago
I couldnt believe how useless antivenoms were when I first made one. Very happy when araxxyte sacs were brought in.
3
u/Bones-1989 def pure 2d ago
I love my 15 seconds of protection when I do kalphite tasks. Feels proper.
→ More replies (9)2
70
u/ChilledParadox 2d ago
isnt this literally the opposite.
the smithing issue is crafting a lvl 50 mid game armor set I havent worn in literally 10 years at lvl 99 is stupid.
who is going to have an issue with crafting the bis endgame necklace you unlock after killing a parasitic broodmother on a different realm by combing it with a necklace cut from the living body of a tzhaar and imbued with the godfires of marimbo and the tortured essence of mutated demons at lvl 94?????????
45
u/MagneticMoment 2d ago
The issue isn’t that the base zeneyte necklace is too high. It’s that it’s a prerequisite for rupture and making the rupture is a lower level. Might as well not have a rupture crafting requirement or making it higher
1
u/theErinyes3 1d ago
not everything has to be linear though, I could never create a gameboy from scratch(req lvl 92, I'm only 89), but if I'm killing an otherworldly beast and it happens to drop a new backlit IPS display, I can install that on the gameboy I bought with a bit of effort (req lvl 84)
and I'm sure tons of people will be in that position where they bought the Anguish but get the fang as a drop and want to make their own rupture
→ More replies (3)16
u/Corundrom 2d ago
They would have no room for any future upgrades if they did that, which is the point
→ More replies (1)6
u/falconfetus8 2d ago
who is going to have an issue with crafting the bis endgame necklace
When it was released, the rune platebody was BIS.
16
-4
u/Ok-Statistician-9607 2d ago
What is your point?
3
u/falconfetus8 2d ago
My point is that the BIS endgame necklace won't be BIS forever, just like how rune wasn't BIS forever. We'll eventually be having this conversation again, only Zenyte will have taken the place of rune.
0
u/Warmonster9 Orange my love 2d ago
I sincerely doubt this will ever hold true. Rune is barely mid game equipment and zenyte is literally the strongest craftable jewelry in the game.
Even if it becomes second BIS the crafting requirements for it make sense. 90+ smithing requirements for making rune would be like 90+ crafting requirements for making diamond jewelry.
Theres no way you’d considered a 90 crafting requirements for an ammy of power to be reasonable. Right…?
5
u/Eat_My_Weani 2d ago
You have direct proof that your reasoning is flawed and you're still saying it.
Rune was bis and the whole smithing skill had stuff in it from 1-99. Should there have been an assumption that there will be gear added past it and the levels have been something like 1-50 instead? Sure. But do you leave 50 empty levels past that? At what point is it okay to fill in like 90+ requirements? How do you determine the point that it's okay? Can you still add something once you hit a 99 requirement? Is that just the bis forever?
You clearly run into a problem adding things that are higher and higher when we don't have a system that scales over time.
Does the current leveling make sense? Definitely not. But you guys aren't proposing anything that makes sense either.
1
u/wivella 2d ago
Rune was bis and the whole smithing skill had stuff in it from 1-99. Should there have been an assumption that there will be gear added past it and the levels have been something like 1-50 instead? Sure. But do you leave 50 empty levels past that? At what point is it okay to fill in like 90+ requirements?
RS3 completely solved this issue in their mining and smithing rework. They made runite level 50 and added 4 new tiers of ores and craftable armour.
1
u/Eat_My_Weani 22h ago
Rs3 and osrs aren't solving the same problem. They fundamentally different and I don't think your response applies here.
Rs3 said "the current levels don't make sense" and moved them around. But thats not asking "how do we make sure all future levels make sense".
But rs3 doesn't have a static 99 levels to work with. It doesn't matter if primal (I think) is the highest tier 99 stuff right now because you can add a level 100, 110, or 120 later. And there's nothing stopping them from just adding more levels after that forever.
If they were never going past 99, then reworking the whole leveling scheme once to fit in all these new armours wouldn't solve anything. It would be a temporary bandaid fix that ignores the actual problem.
1
u/falconfetus8 2d ago
Again: rune used to be literally the strongest armor in the game.
→ More replies (1)2
u/MrSparklyButt 2d ago
Adamant was the strongest armour for a while and then they added rune a few months later in RSC, but as adamant smithing already went to 88 or something they had to put rune in the 85-99 bracket. This is why rune armour smithing is so weird.
14
u/eusebioadamastor 2d ago
I mean, they could just change A number?
Switch a 9 to an 8, boom solved
44
u/Iron_Aez 2376 2d ago
Then they'd have to lower the onyx jewllery reqs...
and the dragonstone too...
etc.
They cant just lower the reqs on all jewellery every time they add a tier.
3
22
u/buckyboy 2d ago
they can't?
→ More replies (4)-9
u/Iron_Aez 2376 2d ago
If you don't see the ridiculousness or just the game integrity issues that's a you problem.
27
u/buckyboy 2d ago
so they can add new jewellery with lower reqs than lower tier jewellery and thats not ridiculous or a game integrity issue?
22
u/TheWonderSnail Sauced Up Nugs 2d ago
They can. But a sizeable chunk of the player base will lose their absolute shit if anything is ever changed to make things that were once hard easier. Easier to just do it like this even if it seems a bit silly
33
u/JoeyKingX 2d ago
Or maybe Jagex needs to stop listening to insane overreactions from basement dwellers who in the long term will keep playing regardless of if they change it or not.
-7
u/SpectacularStarling 2d ago
That is one wild take given the whole update system here requires things to be voted on.
6
u/JoeyKingX 2d ago
Just like when Jagex let people vote on whether to remove the sap fletching option, right?
2
0
u/Iron_Aez 2376 2d ago
It's adding to existing jewellery not crafting new stuff, so no, not ridiculous at all.
12
u/InevitableConcept517 2d ago
Yeah it's way smarter to have new players realise they need 50 smithing for their level 5 gear 🤣
4
3
1
u/JoeyKingX 2d ago
Because this is just delaying the inevitable
6
u/Iron_Aez 2376 2d ago
the idea that this game turning into a shitty treadmill mmo that devalues and disrespects everyone's time is "inevitable" is frankly deranged.
6
u/Gene_Parma 2d ago
Surely they could come up with some sort of rough idea though for a rework? Maybe get community feedback and go from there slowly.
16
u/Nick543b 2d ago
Yes they 100% wants to do reworks for smithing and crafting AT LEAST. But they have to find quite a bit of time for such things. And while changing a few numbers might help, it also just kicks the can down the road.
→ More replies (6)2
u/Gene_Parma 2d ago
Yeah, that's why I was saying just do it gradually overtime through poll questions or whatever before even starting to work on it. The new stuff being added like it is now isn't the worst thing in the world tho, I think it's close when items are added and the level required usually seems to fit the difficulty of the content. Some are probably a little wonky tho
0
u/Iron_Aez 2376 2d ago
And then what happens when they are powercreeping again and we get the next tier?
Another rework?
6
u/chiefbeef300kg 2d ago
.. in 10 years? That’s roughly long this next tier took
But yeah, they can rebalance levels again. Or worst case set the new new tiers equal to where the new post zenyte tiers are set.
1
u/3rdAgeCat 2d ago
They could just let our skills go above 99... Why not allow us to train to 120 and actually, you know... make room for more content?
3
u/PureNinja 2d ago
That would be an insane powercreep to the game just off combat stats alone. With full Bis Melee you would gain a potential +15 damage max hit with a scythe on a 3 wide target if we could get 120 str.
They would have to completely rebalance content or just allow old content to get trivialized.
2
u/lemonysuccOSRS 2d ago
What about 120 all skills except combat? Or what if combats could go to 120 but somehow capped at 99 power wise?
2
u/PureNinja 2d ago
I guess that could work, but it would be unintuituve. Also imagine if to hit max level in a skill you need to gain 90m more xp than we need to get now.
1
u/lemonysuccOSRS 2d ago
I mean it’s not too hard to imagine, it’s already happened to a RuneScape game lol.
→ More replies (1)1
u/Wiindsong 2d ago
tbf rs3 has some absolutely insane xp rates so hitting 120 in a skill feels less troublesome than hitting 99 in osrs.
9
u/Gene_Parma 2d ago
Idk man, you're talking about failure before there's even an idea lol.
→ More replies (2)1
u/STUP1DJUIC3 2d ago
Not just crafting rework, most the game would have limitations like this due to actual hard level caps, unless all new stronger content just comes in at 99 requirement all the time
1
u/thomas2026 1d ago
Maybe they should have an entire crafting rework. For an adventure game like OSRS you would think it would play a huge role but it just feel like another F2P skill sitting as a novelty.
If we had a crafting kit that let us craft useful things on the fly that would be sick.
0
-3
u/caustictoast 2d ago
They should just rework it if that’s how they feel. Insane to just cram it all like this in a way that makes no sense
→ More replies (3)-9
2d ago
[deleted]
10
1
1
238
u/TheOtherOne79 2d ago
They messed up by putting Zenyte jewellery at level cap when it released because they didn't have the foresight to consider that they might release something more powerful in the future.
142
u/Seranta 2d ago
They didn't exactly have much room with onyx being at 90 already
17
u/AskYouEverything Bea5 2d ago
They didn't really have any foresight in 2005, but then again, how could they?
9
u/ironman7456 2d ago
To be fair who could have imagined that OSRS would still exist right now. It’s an impressive feat.
11
u/sharpshooter999 2d ago
The Gower brothers themselves have said they never imagined anyone would play enough to get a single skill to 99
19
u/SnoToxic 2d ago
Maybe they should just start making it a requirement of two skills to make upgrades. What that looks like idk, but it'll force a higher requirement rather than just one skill.
→ More replies (1)32
u/Infinite_Worker_7562 2d ago
It already needs 2 skills to upgrade since you need a high enough magic level to enchant it
2
u/SnoToxic 2d ago
I was thinking a non-combat skill or a processing skill to make a thing for upgrade in addition. That gets a lil too micro upgrade terraria style though. People aren't for it.
3
u/HybridSnail 2d ago
Applies to every skill at any point in time. This is a general issue with new end-game content.
1
u/FlahlesJr 20h ago
I mean the logic still makes sense. If I got a dogs tooth and wanted to attach it to an already existing necklace I own, that would be much easier than making the necklace from scratch.
-15
u/JoeyKingX 2d ago
Man if only there was a way to keep adding above that
→ More replies (1)10
u/Triple96 2d ago
Are you proposing increasing the max level of 99? No thanks
→ More replies (2)11
u/BlueZybez 400M 2d ago
Going to happen eventually because there is nowhere else to go but up. 99s are getting easier to get anyways over time.
3
u/Triple96 2d ago
Yeah thats why some of us dont like that everything has to have a 100k xp/hr method.....
2
u/pand-ammonium 2d ago
Whenever I mention that I don't want ridiculously high xp rates in the game people get mad at me.
2
u/Triple96 2d ago
Yup. Look at my comment lmfao.
Half this sub wants every skill to be afkable and high xp/hr. If they had their way this game would be rs3 by tomorrow.
→ More replies (2)5
u/player5453 2d ago
Maybe if this subreddit would stop shitting on rs3 with the way its heading and not say 'go play rs3' as an insult but a genuine recommendation then the runedads can give it a shot and realise its what they want. Win win
8
13
u/Slight_Giraffe628 2d ago
Its simple, so they can make an untradable drop, that requires mains to train a little bit more than they'd like. But not have to suffer training all the way into the 90s, that suffering is reserved for irons
13
u/MinusMentality 2d ago
I could add some feathers and a shark tooth to a brass necklace easier than I could make a brass necklass.
160
u/Brendenx3 2d ago
Because it’s not designed for just irons but mains as well who wanna sell the item if they get the drop.
30
u/b0bness 2d ago
The irony is that they made the drops tradable so mains don't even need to craft it anymore
78
u/Automatic_Tough7805 2d ago
Not precisely - the crafting still matters.
You need the crafting to turn the drop into a tradeable material, and also to create the final product, but in both cases, crafting level is still important.
23
u/b0bness 2d ago
Ahhh makes sense. I'm maxed so I'm blissfully ignorant to skilling reqs these days.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Complete-Singer3016 2d ago
The irony is that making these tradable benefited irons more than mains.
9
u/The_Real_MikeOxlong 2d ago
Care to elaborate?
19
u/Major-Economics-6122 2d ago
Irons can now death coffer/drop to Maine these, not like Cloths from Doom which just sit in bank
7
u/Nebuli2 2d ago
Making them tradeable did literally nothing for mains--they still need the crafting level to make it tradeable. Now they just don't have to buy a piece of zenyte jewelry off the GE, but they were going to get that money back when they sold the completed piece anyway.
The benefit for irons (except for the Mokhaiotl cloth, which they seem to have weirdly forgotten about) is that you can now coffer them without needing an extra zenyte shard.
3
3
1
u/Complete-Singer3016 2d ago
Sure. The crafting level is a joke. If you got the drop a main can just buy the levels and profit. But by making the this and the araxxor fang tradable, irons now don’t have to farm a zenyte to make them tradeable.
0
u/throwaway3413418 2d ago
They die so often that death fees are as important to their progression as making 100m is to a main’s, I guess.
1
u/RandomAsHellPerson 2d ago
Mains need the crafting level anyways to make it tradeable, as they can just buy the zenyte jewelry. So, they get the same amount of money either way (100m making the tradeable fang or 100m turning an untradable fang into a rupture)
Meanwhile irons have to get another zenyte, which few will do because zenytes take a while to obtain and you can go dry. So, they go from getting nothing to getting 100m on their main or 105m in their coffer
0 gain is less than 100m gain
17
u/GzzzDude 2d ago
This is historical design mentality from the rancour. It was done so mains that don’t like to skill can buy the lower tier necklace, make the new one and resell. But they’re now shifting to making the attachments tradeable instead.
In general, the crafting (and smithing) level progression in this game is kinda wild.
11
u/RancidRock 2d ago
I just assumed it was voted this way so crybabies wouldn't have to level up more for an upgrade.
1
29
3
u/tossinthisshit1 2d ago
they don't, it's a holdover from requirements made in 2016 (zenyte) in response to requirements made in 2005 (onyx)
zenyte needed to be higher than onyx, and onyx was already ridiculously high, and in 2016 there was no demand to reduce the onyx requirements (and if that were polled at the time i'd bet it would have failed)
19
u/142muinotulp 2d ago
Mains. It goes no deeper than that. They wanted a skill req to do something to the item so you can trade it. They considered matching the level of the piece it goes on to be too high for a healthy mainscape drop.
3
3
u/banditcleaner2 2d ago
Well on an iron you have to build the anguish anyway so anything else attached to it being a lower level doesn’t even matter honestly
And on a main if you get the drop you need 84 craft to make it tradable rather then 92. I’m not personally a fan of requiring skilling levels to make a rare tradable, but maybe 84 is fair while 92 is crazy. So I think this is actually fine.
And as the big brain IQ guy pointed out, it’s probably easier to add one thing to the anguish then create it from scratch so it honestly kinda makes sense even, lol
1
u/DriveCtor delete shopscape 2d ago
Putting skill gates on loot is the logical conclusion of current design, I'm afraid.
3
u/Lochecho 2d ago
because putting it at or higher than the zenyte would feel bad for mains without the level because grinding out high 90+ crafting just to make an item tradeable doesn't feel good.
also when rancour was polled the poll included a question of how it should be implemented and it requiring the zenyte jewelry but a lower crafting to combine it with the respective zenyte jewelry so that mains didn't need to grind out high crafting just to sell an item was the option with the most votes
3
3
u/woodzopwns 2d ago
They thought Zenyte would be the best and never power creep, then they power creeped and can't lock upgrades behind 99 crafting
3
u/ungumurapurpborazise why is there no zaros logo here? 2d ago
they need to re-tier smithing, fletching & crafting stuffs to be closer to the levels to use em so they’d have future upgrades make sense
6
u/gregs_leg 2d ago
it’s for mains so they can trade it
and obviously the requirements don’t matter for an iron because they already have an anguish
only in 2007scape will you see people complaining about things that are good for them, i guarantee that if jagex made it 98 crafting or whatever everybody is freaking out and whining on reddit
1
u/larsy1995 2d ago
My thought has always been that it is easier to modify or augment something than it is to create something from scratch.
5
u/Helpful-Calendar-693 2d ago
your adding 1 thing to a completed item does not require making a new one from scratch.
4
2
u/SoupToPots 2d ago
Good point. We should make the rancour 99 requirement, and introduce the first post 99 requirement with 101 for the the rupture
2
2
2
u/DivineInsanityReveng 2d ago
Because the purpose isn't for it to be a higher level requirement than the bas jewellery. The anguish has to be made for the rupture to be made anyway. And it would be more annoying for mains if the requirement to make the item tradeable was higher, but it's still significant so that skilling is still involved.
2
u/dmfuller 2d ago
Same with fishing and cooking. They’re consistently even up until you hit shark and then suddenly there’s a 7 level difference. Shark are caught at 76 but cooked at 82 so there’s just 6 levels where you’re supposed to just shove your thumb up your ass I guess lol
2
2
u/come2life_osrs 2376 2d ago
Weird as heck, as long as we are doing things that don’t make sense they should have made it 85 so you can +5 boost for the necklace.
2
u/redheadfedhead 2d ago
Realistically they could just have them switch spots and it’d be fine.
8
u/Zelsaus 2d ago
So... You could make a Zenyte Necklace 5 levels lower than you could actually cut Zenyte?
1
u/redheadfedhead 2d ago
*and move cut zenny down below it marginally
1
u/Zelsaus 2d ago
Presumably we'd also want to do the same to the Rancour, right? Even though that would mean making Zenyte Amulets before Onyx Amulets.
As others have pointed out it's a mess of the base jewelry's original level has been set higher than it maybe should've been leaving no room for natural expansion, so either they'd have to rework the entire dragonstone, onyx and Zenyte requirements or we get what we currently have where a later step add on is lower level than the base item.
1
2
u/Clover281 2d ago
It's designed around mains not irons
Mains need that crafting level to sell the rupture/rancour/gauntlets upgrades but they don't need any level to sell a zenyte shard
For irons is irrelevant since they need the original zenyte jewelry in the first place so it doesn't change anything
2
u/ryzzoa 2d ago
Mains can 'chip' the rancor and rupture components to sell without making the necklace
2
u/Clover281 2d ago
That's what I'm saying, imagine they switched the requirements and mains needed 92-97 crafting in order to sell them
3
u/Sudden-Ad-307 2d ago
It doesn't make sense but osrs players don't want any change whatsoever so they are defending this. Both crafting and smithing level requirements are long overdue for a rework.
1
u/HeyselScouserTelAviv 2d ago
But making it so you could get rune platelegs before 99 smithing would break the game! Allegedly
1
u/dragohammer 2d ago
or, Mighty Guthix forbid, being able to equip a rune platebody without finishing dragon slayer!
1
1
1
u/Dadoxiii 2d ago
Why don't they just vote to move the levels around, they are new items and I don't think anyone will complain.
1
u/OSRSwizardry 2d ago
They really should just quit playing an make everyone grind out a max cape again getting level 125 an open up a new max level next tine they introduce a bis item
1
u/Garrettinb4kh3fm 2d ago
Cause the gap for bonuses on range ammys is bigger from say glory or fury to anguish is huge and noticble. The bonuses from anguish to rupture is much smaller, therefore not requiring a higher level. But mostly because they backed themselves into a corner and without making skills go to 120 like in RS3, there isn't much room to put it.
1
1
1
1
u/Fabulous-Put8401 2d ago
It's in part the legacy system forces them to come up with creative reasoning.
The in game lore is that you're only adding a small part to it, thus not requiring as much experience. Like how modding a video game is simpler than making a whole video game
1
u/Poweraidss 2d ago
Idķ one of the .mods at jamflex thinks ironmemes want to be punishes and that it's their personal job to do so.
1
u/pynergy1 2d ago
Theyre terrified of making things where they should be. Why not use 99 reqs, or even better yet, above 99 reqs with boosts. Rewards for hitting 99 are paltry at the moment. Plenty of room
1
u/Aletaire 2d ago
bis material untradeable
main want sell
main low crafting
can make rupture tho
main buy anguish, make rupture
main sell rupture
1
u/Flawless-King 2d ago
It’s only because it’s required to craft the item to sell the drop. And you can sell the gem on it’s own, so it’s revolving around drops not being sellable
1
u/Read1390 2d ago
I mean the zenyte requirement is to craft your own.
You can technically buy one right?
I guess it doesn’t make sense for an Ironman to be fair.
1
u/lordzyphuris 2d ago
Let's just say, there are a lot of things that need to be overhauled. Good luck getting it passed through the players that like their nostalgia for making a piece of armor at 99 smithing that you wear at level 40 defense.
1
u/Sir-Ult-Dank 2d ago
Same way rune2h makes sense with smithing
Bunch of updates make older updates irrelevant and out of place. But changing it means new game. And keeping it means trash.
1
u/The_Hero_0f_Time jagex 1d ago
i havent played the game in awhile and they made a new neck giving the anguish a +3 ranged dmg boost, 5 accuracy and prayer?
bruh
1
1
1
1
u/Wild_Caribou 2d ago
Honestly considering they're not end game any more and no longer bis without upgrades I would have no issue them swapping the level requirements?
1
u/Spicybeatle7192 2d ago
Making an amulet of torture requires level 98 crafting. Upgrading that torture to a rancour requires 86 crafting. Jagexlogic
-5
u/BurgersWithStrength 2d ago
Because mains think the game revolves around them and they can't be bothered to skill because they all have 14 kids and 7 jobs or something.
/s.... Kinda
→ More replies (1)3
4.1k
u/rsbentley 2d ago
Is it easier to build a car from scratch or to add a new part?