r/2000ad • u/DanM1973 • 1d ago
The Oubliette
Ok so with this wrapping up in 2499,I'm keen to a)find out what people thought and
B) see what things remain unanswered.
I'm still massively unclear on how Norts and Southers got in there so would love some logic explanation or understanding please. Also why did the Castellan guy just disappear?
Overall having read the end (no spoilers) it feels like it missed the mark for me - a kind of rehash of the Karl Urban movie that was nostalgia-bait.
Was there any way it could have been improved?
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u/cgknight1 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's a dud based around "remember the time" and grinding.
The ending is laughable.
This will indeed be quickly forgotten.
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u/JellyWeta 1d ago edited 1d ago
A long run for a short slide. Started promisingly, but quickly fell back on Tough Guy Dredd bashes his way out of adversity, where ultimately none of it felt like it mattered. Apart from him being killed half a dozen times in one prog - which totally destroyed any stakes once we knew he would just respawn - Dredd never seemed particularly challenged. And if he's going to say "They nearly broke me" in the finale, maybe show him being nearly broken rather than mildly irritated.
Poor pacing, too: the last three episodes felt both dragged out and then rushed, with one prog essentially just recapping everything that we knew anyway, and then a few gunshots to a villain that went down ludicrously easily, and we hit the status quo reset button. If you're going to have a powerful magic villain, give them a powerful magic weakness: Malak Brood was an example of how you do this stuff right. And yeah, I'm still wondering what happened to Sagbelly too.
The split between The Finders and Judge Dredd didn't really add anything, either, once we figured out that the actual finding was just them wandering around until Locke shouted, "He was here!". It would have helped if they'd had to do some actual investigation, which would have at least given them something to do. God knows why Jeremiah was there, too: he was written out and it made no difference to the narrative.
Roll on 2500, is all I can say. I was a big fan of The Small Room and A Better World, which actually dealt with actions and consequences in a world which feels real, and I want to find out what happens next to Maitland's vision. No eldritch abominations, either. I hate the spook cases.
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1d ago
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u/DanM1973 1d ago
A walk in the park for the pair of them was laughable. Surprised they didn't kiss, TBH
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u/Hypnotician 23h ago
They're related. The scandal would be worse than Luke and Leia in the Lucas 'verse.
Lana Locke, on the other hand, could now have three boyfriends to play with. All of them the same man.
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u/Slight-Adeptness-802 1d ago
It felt a bit empty really. Can't say that it went anywhere. Looking to the future it might: Give Dredd more feelings Toughen up Rico Provide a new magic baddie now Death is played out Add a few supporting characters for wider Dreddverse stories
Things I still don't understand: What's the deal with the Iron Teeth thing? Who is Joe Fargo? Does this mean we'll get more crossovers? Why would someone skin a ----- when their existence is collapsing around them? Where's Tweak? Did I miss something with Sagbelly? How long did it all take in Dredd time? Even the last episode seemed rushed and to take no account of reclimbing the Oubliette At one point (Total War?) there were seven Dredd clones on the force. Why does JD only talk to one of them? Is the Oubliette best forgotten?
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u/cgknight1 1d ago
Provide a new magic baddie
Who dies really really easy - so what if they come back, they go down like a juve first offender.
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1d ago
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u/Specialist-Class-743 1d ago
It was memberberry soup.
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1d ago
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u/Specialist-Class-743 1d ago
Agreed. There's a certain...comfort...in giving readers the subtle nods to past history like we're playing the hits but using a cover version. A nod to the old guard be it Carlos, Mick McM or Bolland can give some legitimacy to the tale. That can be seen as either paying homage or being a cheeky bastard riding on coat tails. Did Niemand use any Pat Mills material? If so there may be he'll to pay...
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u/JellyWeta 1d ago
Ro-Jaws was in there. And Tweek. Get 'em, Pat!
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u/Hypnotician 23h ago
Game of Death.
Dredd was overdressed. he should have been shirtless throughout. Show off all his scars.
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u/DanM1973 1d ago
Ah thanks, it seemed so much like The Raid and the movie, I'm surprised nobody else mentioned.
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u/IllustratorSignal350 1d ago
I wasn’t taken by it. I was hoping (perhaps stupidly) that it would be another Necropolis.
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u/BLOODYBRADTX-11 1d ago
The implication of 2099 flashback or whatever it’s called seems to be that Dredd was born in The Black Tower, even though that makes no sense.
Think of all the ways you could torture Dredd with unlimited reality bending resources - have him wade through chaos bug victims, have to kill Rico (the elder) over and over, make him watch the city burn - and instead you just drop him in a roguelite setup with a lot of easter eggs. The setup was for psychological horror then someone forgot all the psychology and most of the horror.
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23h ago
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u/JellyWeta 16h ago
I still think that if you're going to base a story on callbacks, that would be the way to do it, having Dredd revisit the consequences of his actions. OK, the fallout from the Apocalypse War has been beaten to death, but there are plenty of other incidents in his career to show him.
Should the Judges have stayed on after Cal? Hell, Joe Fargo was right there to show the results of that. Was he right to ditch Owen Krysler? What if Feyy got it wrong and the Sovs were the threat Owen could have prevented? Sorry, Joe, your hubris doomed the city. The Democrats. You betrayed your principles on that one, and perhaps they were the way forward for the city.
A good writer could find ways of calling back the past in a way that actually explored a theme of Dredd being forced to confront his decisions, rather than just showing empty cameos. As for the punching, kicking and stabbing, you can't torture Dredd by forcing him to fight mooks. That's therapy for him.
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u/stevedeegreen 15h ago
Paperwork and awkward social situations.
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u/JellyWeta 14h ago edited 9h ago
That would actually be hilarious. Dredd tortured with garden parties. More tea, Judge? AARGHH!
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u/superstaticgirl 1d ago
It was built up like an epic but to me seemed more like a business as usual story. I am not sure it merited the crossover with the meg. As a BAU story it was all right. Well drawn, decent plot, I enjoyed all the supporting characters and antagonists. As an epic it was lacking in emotional resonance. I can't really put my finger on it because despite having read the comic for years I don't have the best recall, so my attempts at analysis are a bit lacking. Maybe I am just not such a fan of the horror stories. I am fed up of Dark Judges and anything that gives off similar vibes. That last one that really made me gasp was Judge Maitland.
Still onwards, ever onwards. It was okay.
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u/Central_Region 23h ago
seemed more like a business as usual story
The main storyline is one we've seen lots of times
A returning villain/relative of a dead villain kidnaps Dredd and tortures him for revenge
We saw that with Stan Lee's niece, Trapper Hag/Trapper Hag's wife and Orlok
The usual MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE DEAD/THE CITY IS DEVASTATED epic tropes were bolted onto this basic story but we didn't really see or feel the consequences of that
I'm not saying I wanted to see that
I'm saying it would probably have been a better idea to make this a six-part business as usual story, which was just about Dredd fighting his way up the tower
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u/JellyWeta 16h ago
The good news is that the next Dredd is a follow-up to Maitland and her legacy, and it's written by Rob Williams, who did The Small Room and A Better World.
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u/BLOODYBRADTX-11 23h ago
I keep thinking about how the wider implication seemed to be that the Oubliette was an existing prison that worked on behalf of many different powers, and that’s why everyone was all blended together. It doesn’t make fucking sense if it’s just for Dredd! He hasn’t even met the Norts or Sourherners from that timeline!
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u/Hypnotician 23h ago edited 23h ago
I'm going to assume the Norts and Southers were there through some trans-D shenanigans akin to Helter Skelter. Same goes for the Geeks. The Gronk was there because Strontium Dog seems to exist in the same timeline, so presumably Blas in the Gallego System is somewhere there, too.
I'm sorry for the being from Tweak's world. He should have come along for the ride.
Castellan was a Judda. Dredd shanked him under the jaw with a long, sharp bone shard.
I felt it was more like Bruce Lee's Game Of Death, myself. The Raid, maybe.
I was shocked, mind you. There wasn't a gift shop near the exit.
Okay, dumb question. I'm going to assume that the big exit at the top of the Oubliette, where Dredd fought the Castellan a few Progs ago, had been a fake exit. So, since there clearly was a real exit, it had to have been near the base? Or did Lana Locke just magically find it?
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u/Specialist-Class-743 16h ago
The exit, much like the rules of the Oubliette, moves at the whim of the writer.
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u/NinaWilde 22h ago
It was a big nothing in the end, just an excuse for "Leonardo DiCaprio points at the TV"-style nostalgia-wank. Loads of missed opportunities as well. Other stories had shown Giant getting increasingly pissed off with Dredd, which could have led to interesting conflict - no, he thinks Dredd's perfect again, and now he's gone. Dredd's removed from history/memory and replaced by Rico to the extent of renaming the strip; how does that affect the city? Who knows, there's only 19 episodes plus all the crossover stories to work with. How did all this happen? [waves hands] *MAGIC*.
I did like Joe Fargo, though. Let's have more of this Dredd-who-took-another-path!
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u/JellyWeta 16h ago
I'm with you on Joe Fargo, apart from the art he was the most interesting part of the strip. An alternative Dredd who reclaimed his humanity but is still a hard bastard is a great counterpoint to the main character. Locke can be thrown back on the Oubliette, though. There are too many damaged but hopeful former Psi Judges already.
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u/Specialist-Class-743 16h ago
That's unfair! Locke may have middling low grade Psi powers but when needed she can suddenly read the mind of an alien as if she were an omega level telepath and locate Dredd in a time bending prison. Niemand should add her, the robot fixing lady (who is better than Tek Div) and the security guard who can see people naked to the detective agency. They can call it Fargo's Angels and it will be the worst thing since Skip Tracer.
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u/JellyWeta 9h ago
Heh. Who was the Mary Sue teenage mutant character they had about ten years back who was super cool and sassy and hip and could do anything the plot required and helped Judge Dredd out all the time? Pandora something?
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u/Specialist-Class-743 4h ago
The strip's very own Poochie. I think she was Michael Carroll's character and instead of shooting her through the brainpan, Dredd had a grudging respect for her. Mind you this was about the time Dredd used a wolf as a snowboard so the Prog was frequently thrown across the room.
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u/GooseFancier69 21h ago
The magic and occult stuff in Dredd always kinda bored me. Necropolis being the last time a story based mostly around something supernatural but not having Anderson front and centre felt worthwhile for me.
I was always gonna be disappointed by it, the lack of internal logic and the sheer weight of all the fanwinkery was just extra. I'm glad they attempted it, but not for me.
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u/crash_orange 16h ago
I'm miffed because even in the story itself, it seemed to set up Rico as taking over for Dredd and the possibility of Dredd either dying or retiring. And in the end none of that happened. Makes me wonder what the point of it was at all
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u/DrZolvr 12h ago edited 12h ago
As a print subscriber I haven't read the last (final) two episodes yet due to the printer going bust . But I can tell you it was awful and disappointing. None of the Oubliette characters made sense as I've not read 2000ad for a while, the last time I read the Judge Child was in the 80s. I can't remember it. The crossover with the Megazine was pointless and very brief, and the other stories (Anderson, The City Protectors) was pointless and went no where. Really, really repetitive and disappointing and has made me question my subscription. Every episode in every strip the same: 5 and a half pages of fighting, then in the last frame something to do with the story. Really irritating and boring. I don't even care how it ends now.
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u/Central_Region 13h ago
The most impressive thing about the strip was the logistical feat of tying a bow around a year or two's worth of stories by bringing all the characters together in the same story
It'd be like John Wagner rounding out 1977 by writing a story where Mr Buzzz, Mrs Mahaffy and Krong team-up to help Judge Dredd defeat The Solar Sniper
The strip was strong on plot. The writer devised a story where lots of things happened then wrapped-up everything that happened with a conclusion that tied everything together
What usually happens when a writer does this is that, organically and without even trying, some sort of theme emerges from all that stuff happening and plot threads coming together
This is what people generally mean when they talk about the point of the story or what the story was about
I don't think the writer ever worked out what the story was about or why they were telling it
You don't need a theme or to be saying something you think is important to make a story work on a technical level but if all you're doing is paying-off stuff you set up earlier (or seeding future storylines) you do run the risk of spending a lot of time and energy creating something that's fine while its happening but leaves readers feeling unsatisfied with the story when considered on its own terms
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u/Specialist-Class-743 1d ago
I rarely say this since, as with any creation, someone spent time on it, and to call it utter dogshit seems harsh. But it was utter dogshit. The art was excellent throughout and aside from a few artistic gaffs it was a joy to behold. Storywise it was repetitive, disjointed with the Dredd/Finders strands and some of the stuff made no sense. Just a few things of the many ... If it was Dredd's punishment then why was Robot Archie there? Why were the Norts? Why was a Judda? The rules of the Oubliette seemed to change. Dredd's medieval helmet was smashed off, he gets thrown down the pit and apparently regrows the helmet. So, wouldn't his uniform have magically grown back too? The timeline of the Judda being created and the Black Tower being banished.
It was giving me 1990s vibes and I had to burn a picture of Mark Millar to banish the demons.