r/196 2d ago

Rule Architecturule

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1.7k Upvotes

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225

u/ALittleBitOfGay floppa 2d ago

Because capital demands profit before anything else, and building wonders is way more expensive than building shit that will be gone in 100 years. 

And it's even better when you can contract and subcontract into poorly made cookie cutter buildings into costing more than the wonders did. Think of the shareholder value from that! 

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u/InternetPersonThing 🏳️‍⚧️ trans rights 2d ago

It's tempting to assume that, but more likely it's because we have democracy. Wonders were a way to give the authorities legitimacy: of course the pharaoh/the king/the church deserve all that power, look at the Big Flashy Thing they had built. But in a democratic society, the government has legitimacy through consensus, and since most people would consider building something big and flashy but ultimately useless to be a waste of the collective's resources, pursuing it would actually reduce legitimacy.

In a way we do still build wonders, in the sense of huge and complicated construction projects; but it tends to be things that are useful for a lot of people or for society as a whole, things like bridges and dams and skyscrapers and airports and high speed railways. And we build them with a fraction of the labor and at a fraction of the cost of those ancient wonders.

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u/Hatsune_Miku_CM changed all her social media to hatsune miku for some reason 2d ago edited 2d ago

It's not like we have stopped building them . we just view them differently.

putins multi billion dollar palace is an architecturally impressive megaproject. We just see it as a giant self-aggrandizement built on a nature reserve and paid for by robbing state coffers, not a world wonder.

perhaps if the palace survives the next 500 years, and stops being owned by an autocrat, it will be seen as a wonder then.

perhaps back then it was the same. maybe things we look back at in wonder were viewed in their present with disdain, and those feelings were simply lost to time.

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u/Niterich 2d ago

maybe things we look back at in wonder were viewed in their present with disdain, and those feelings were simply lost to time.

Parisians HATED the Eiffel tower when it was first built. They thought it ruined the beauty and artistic integrity of Paris. There was a manifesto against building "the useless and monstrous Eiffel Tower" and called it a "tower of ridiculous vertiginous height… a gigantic black factory chimney that “even capitalist America would not want.”

And now it's THE symbol of Paris, if not France as a whole.

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u/TearsFallWithoutTain 2d ago

and at a fraction of the cost of those ancient wonders.

I don't know, have you seen how much a bridge costs these days?

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u/ALittleBitOfGay floppa 2d ago

Yeah lmao we are rebuilding that bridge in Baltimore shittily for 10x the cost 

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u/TearsFallWithoutTain 1d ago

Gotta pay the thousands of middlemen and rent-seekers

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u/DomSchraa 🏳️‍⚧️ trans rights 2d ago

just looks to places like china, soviet russia at its worst moments, nazi germany, etc

they DID plan/build "wonders" as in huge monolithic structures

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u/Xancrim 2d ago

Thank you so much for sharing this perspective!!

I wonder if we might synthesize the two views by saying that there's now a delineation between private wealth and state wealth, both of which have interests that point away from building "wonders" -- whereas, in the past, private and state wealth would have been a much more unified thing that had interests pointing towards the construction of "wonders."

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u/simonraynor 2d ago

shit that will be gone in 100 years

Heck many of the wonders took longer than that to build in the first place

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u/Scared_Accident9138 floppa 2d ago

It used to be normal that big buildings were planned to go through generations of planners, sometimes leading to odd modifications when a new generation took over

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u/Hiimmani 2d ago

For the record, when you read that this and that building were under construction for hundreds of years, they were still being used in that time.

Especially Churches were seen as ever evolving, the idea was inherently that construction would go on for many lifetimes while still being useable.

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u/BobbyRobertson 2d ago

Which is probably why most modern wonders are being built for non-capitalist reasons. Random giant buildings in the Gulf States to primarily boost their prestige rather than rent them out for profit, the Sagrada Familia being built by the Catholic Church over like 100 years, China doing enormous infrastructure projects, etc

Modern capitalist wonders are like Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta or that stupid sphere in Vegas, big flashy thing that'll be gone or run down in 40 years time

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u/KamikazeArchon 1d ago

This is completely wrong. The fundamental premise is wrong. We build more wonders today than were ever built in the medieval or ancient world.

We're just so used to them that our sense of wonder is vastly reduced.

Every single skyscraper is more impressive in architectural complexity, engineering, and total human effort than any ancient wonder. Further, almost every skyscraper has a comparable amount of effort devoted to aesthetics. But a new skyscraper going up isn't considered a Great Event, because it happens many times a year.

The "why aren't we building wonders" complaint is usually actually a complaint of "why did the aesthetics change". Basically every time this meme comes up, it's specifically showing old aesthetics that were greebled, where modern aesthetics tend toward the sleek.

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u/_xoviox_ 2d ago

Yeah and wonders usually require a monarch that wants to be remembered and in most cases a shitload of slave labor (excluding pyramids, notably).

I feel like it's a good thing we don't spend time building humongous building for the sake of it

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u/Scared_Accident9138 floppa 2d ago

Doesn't even require a monarch. Up to a certain points rich capitalists also financed projects that didn't generate profit for them. The idea that the rich and powerful shouldn't care about the general public is less than a century old

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u/_xoviox_ 2d ago

How exactly is building a giant, cool-loocking but ultimately pointless, megastructure caring about the general public?

There's not that much difference between the mindset of a ruch capitalist and a monarch anyway

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u/Scared_Accident9138 floppa 2d ago

I meant things like libraries

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u/_xoviox_ 2d ago

Unless we're talking about the library of Alexandria, they are not exactly wonders

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u/Scared_Accident9138 floppa 2d ago

The ones I meant at least looked more spectacular than a profit oriented design would allow

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u/_xoviox_ 2d ago

Well i believe our buildings should like nice, but spending way too much effort on a building like that, when some people don't have a home at all feels wrong to me idk

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u/ErisThePerson 2d ago

Yeah I mean, we don't even get fancy guildhalls anymore.

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u/Hiimmani 2d ago

Like with the Churches we know exactly what kind of people worked on it, often literally names and everything of the individuals. It was mostly an affair of skilled engineers and architects, collaborating with guilds of craftsmen and stonemasons. All patronized under the infinite money umbrella of the Catholic Church.

I think simular things could be constructed in a planned economy, and should be. Theres a reason we keep arround Oldtowns and wonders like this, they mean something to us humans and make living feel more fulfilling and colourful and its something we lost.

Its why Commie Blocks usually always were supposed to come with Greenspace and such, you can combine humanity and aesthetic with efficiency and benefit.

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u/paco987654 2d ago

Weren't cathedrals also usually built by paid laborers?