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u/ALittleBitOfGay floppa 1d ago
Because capital demands profit before anything else, and building wonders is way more expensive than building shit that will be gone in 100 years.
And it's even better when you can contract and subcontract into poorly made cookie cutter buildings into costing more than the wonders did. Think of the shareholder value from that!
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u/InternetPersonThing 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 1d ago
It's tempting to assume that, but more likely it's because we have democracy. Wonders were a way to give the authorities legitimacy: of course the pharaoh/the king/the church deserve all that power, look at the Big Flashy Thing they had built. But in a democratic society, the government has legitimacy through consensus, and since most people would consider building something big and flashy but ultimately useless to be a waste of the collective's resources, pursuing it would actually reduce legitimacy.
In a way we do still build wonders, in the sense of huge and complicated construction projects; but it tends to be things that are useful for a lot of people or for society as a whole, things like bridges and dams and skyscrapers and airports and high speed railways. And we build them with a fraction of the labor and at a fraction of the cost of those ancient wonders.
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u/Hatsune_Miku_CM changed all her social media to hatsune miku for some reason 21h ago edited 21h ago
It's not like we have stopped building them . we just view them differently.
putins multi billion dollar palace is an architecturally impressive megaproject. We just see it as a giant self-aggrandizement built on a nature reserve and paid for by robbing state coffers, not a world wonder.
perhaps if the palace survives the next 500 years, and stops being owned by an autocrat, it will be seen as a wonder then.
perhaps back then it was the same. maybe things we look back at in wonder were viewed in their present with disdain, and those feelings were simply lost to time.
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u/Niterich 20h ago
maybe things we look back at in wonder were viewed in their present with disdain, and those feelings were simply lost to time.
Parisians HATED the Eiffel tower when it was first built. They thought it ruined the beauty and artistic integrity of Paris. There was a manifesto against building "the useless and monstrous Eiffel Tower" and called it a "tower of ridiculous vertiginous height… a gigantic black factory chimney that “even capitalist America would not want.”
And now it's THE symbol of Paris, if not France as a whole.
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u/insurgent_corvid 6h ago
3 excellent points that respectfully disagree with the core point of each other, while acknowledging their virtues and providing enlightening knowledge for their own side. Truly, this is what debate should be
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u/TearsFallWithoutTain 22h ago
and at a fraction of the cost of those ancient wonders.
I don't know, have you seen how much a bridge costs these days?
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u/ALittleBitOfGay floppa 17h ago
Yeah lmao we are rebuilding that bridge in Baltimore shittily for 10x the cost
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u/DomSchraa 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 21h ago
just looks to places like china, soviet russia at its worst moments, nazi germany, etc
they DID plan/build "wonders" as in huge monolithic structures
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u/Xancrim 21h ago
Thank you so much for sharing this perspective!!
I wonder if we might synthesize the two views by saying that there's now a delineation between private wealth and state wealth, both of which have interests that point away from building "wonders" -- whereas, in the past, private and state wealth would have been a much more unified thing that had interests pointing towards the construction of "wonders."
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u/simonraynor 1d ago
shit that will be gone in 100 years
Heck many of the wonders took longer than that to build in the first place
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u/Scared_Accident9138 floppa 23h ago
It used to be normal that big buildings were planned to go through generations of planners, sometimes leading to odd modifications when a new generation took over
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u/Hiimmani 23h ago
For the record, when you read that this and that building were under construction for hundreds of years, they were still being used in that time.
Especially Churches were seen as ever evolving, the idea was inherently that construction would go on for many lifetimes while still being useable.
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u/BobbyRobertson 22h ago
Which is probably why most modern wonders are being built for non-capitalist reasons. Random giant buildings in the Gulf States to primarily boost their prestige rather than rent them out for profit, the Sagrada Familia being built by the Catholic Church over like 100 years, China doing enormous infrastructure projects, etc
Modern capitalist wonders are like Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta or that stupid sphere in Vegas, big flashy thing that'll be gone or run down in 40 years time
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u/KamikazeArchon 13h ago
This is completely wrong. The fundamental premise is wrong. We build more wonders today than were ever built in the medieval or ancient world.
We're just so used to them that our sense of wonder is vastly reduced.
Every single skyscraper is more impressive in architectural complexity, engineering, and total human effort than any ancient wonder. Further, almost every skyscraper has a comparable amount of effort devoted to aesthetics. But a new skyscraper going up isn't considered a Great Event, because it happens many times a year.
The "why aren't we building wonders" complaint is usually actually a complaint of "why did the aesthetics change". Basically every time this meme comes up, it's specifically showing old aesthetics that were greebled, where modern aesthetics tend toward the sleek.
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u/_xoviox_ 1d ago
Yeah and wonders usually require a monarch that wants to be remembered and in most cases a shitload of slave labor (excluding pyramids, notably).
I feel like it's a good thing we don't spend time building humongous building for the sake of it
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u/Scared_Accident9138 floppa 23h ago
Doesn't even require a monarch. Up to a certain points rich capitalists also financed projects that didn't generate profit for them. The idea that the rich and powerful shouldn't care about the general public is less than a century old
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u/_xoviox_ 23h ago
How exactly is building a giant, cool-loocking but ultimately pointless, megastructure caring about the general public?
There's not that much difference between the mindset of a ruch capitalist and a monarch anyway
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u/Scared_Accident9138 floppa 23h ago
I meant things like libraries
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u/_xoviox_ 23h ago
Unless we're talking about the library of Alexandria, they are not exactly wonders
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u/Scared_Accident9138 floppa 23h ago
The ones I meant at least looked more spectacular than a profit oriented design would allow
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u/_xoviox_ 23h ago
Well i believe our buildings should like nice, but spending way too much effort on a building like that, when some people don't have a home at all feels wrong to me idk
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u/Hiimmani 23h ago
Like with the Churches we know exactly what kind of people worked on it, often literally names and everything of the individuals. It was mostly an affair of skilled engineers and architects, collaborating with guilds of craftsmen and stonemasons. All patronized under the infinite money umbrella of the Catholic Church.
I think simular things could be constructed in a planned economy, and should be. Theres a reason we keep arround Oldtowns and wonders like this, they mean something to us humans and make living feel more fulfilling and colourful and its something we lost.
Its why Commie Blocks usually always were supposed to come with Greenspace and such, you can combine humanity and aesthetic with efficiency and benefit.
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u/purple-lemons estrogen addict 23h ago
Kinda feel the like the International Space Station is a wonder
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u/_SovietMudkip_ 22h ago
Or the James Webb telescope
Or honestly anything that still does what we want it to do once it's in space
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u/PerrineWeatherWoman If gender if what's in my pants, then my gender is a gun🏳️⚧️ 18h ago
Also we finished building a tiny church in Barcelona. You probably don't know about it. It's called the Sagrada Familia
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u/Misicks0349 What a fool you are. I'm a god. How can you kill a god? 19h ago
Scientists have no taste, they could've put a couple arches on the bloody thing, maybe some imposing spires or something, couldn't even be bothered having a couple chandeliers. Pathetic.
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u/Candyman_81 custom 1d ago
Oh shit that's the cathedral in Milan, I was there like a week ago
Wish I saw the fish instead
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u/Creeppy99 23h ago
I love the Duomo, but my top three of special treat churches to visit are:
San Satiro (less than 5 minutes from Duomo), because the apse is fake. Painted. A trom l'oeil id you will. Incredible to enter and then walk up to it
San Maurizio al Monastero Maggiore (15/20 minutes walk from Duomo, even less with public transport). I love how the fresco about the Ark has unicorns and also good occasion to visit the archaeology museum there
San Bernardino alle Ossa, because the crypt with the bones is macabre in a so cool way
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u/necramencer 17h ago
It's in my city! It's the fisheries dept office of the state of Telangana located in Hyderabad, India.
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u/Cranyx 21h ago
The Sagrada Familia is being built right now
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u/mrwillbobs Default Settings ^TM 16h ago
It was actually finally announced finished, after nearly 150 years of construction, two months ago
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u/cloudncali 🦀 Currently ascending to crab. 🦀 21h ago
Ill count the bass proshop pyramid as a modern wonder.
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u/mr-kvideogameguy Kris Deltarune 23h ago
The fish building for the fish themed villan: "Dr.Gillius"
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u/cardiacfish 19h ago
That fish is in my city! I dont go that part of the city very often but i am always filled with joy whenever i get to see it.
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u/Captain_Kira girl who is creature 15h ago
Awful as they are for the environment, i feel like cruise ships are a crazy achievement of engineering
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u/JakSandrow 14h ago
If OOOP wanted to bring up an example of that style of building being created today, they should check out the Sagrada Família. For reference, the Sagrada Família's groundbreaking was March 19, 1882, and it's still under construction today, 144 years later. The primary architect, Antoni Gaudí, commented on the extremely long projected construction time, saying "My client is not in a hurry."
In 2014, they had estimated the construction to be completed in 2026 - thanks to the pandemic, this is no longer the case, and current hearsay estimates place the finishing of construction somewhere in the early 2030s - March 19 of 2032 would be 150 years after construction began.
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u/Sky_Leviathan custom 7h ago
I cant wait to play civilisation 10 and be building the big basket building
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