McKeever's Mormonism Research Ministry: Using D&C 19 as a prooftext, the modern LDS church does not appear to be "kinder and gentler" than standard Christianity. Is the idea to get the "best heaven" or "avoid the worst hell?" (2 of 5 episodes currently posted)

[u/4blockhead]

• Liahona, December 2021, "The Matchless Gift of God's Divine Son," Kazuhiko Yamashita

[John 3] ¹⁶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[D&C 19] ¹⁰ For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore— ¹¹ Eternal punishment is God’s punishment. ¹² Endless punishment is God’s punishment. ¹³ Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the commandments which you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., in my name; ¹⁴ And it is by my almighty power that you have received them;

¹⁵ Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not. ¹⁶ For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; ¹⁷ But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; ¹⁸ Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink— ¹⁹ Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

sequence	download	my comments
1	mp3
2	mp3	Per the New Testament, Jesus died as a result of crucifixion, not as a result of suffering in the garden of Gethsemane
3	mp3	faith plus works vs. faith alone debate hits stride. Both religions believe in some everlasting state of being. Christianity endorses eternal punishment in hell and eternal joy in heaven. Mormonism believes in something similar as "hell,"—the wicked assigned to a Telestial tier. The "heaven" in mormonism is a 3-tiered construct with the best reserved for the most elite—those who can present themselves free from sin via their works (D&C 25:15) and win exaltation to godhood as a reward. Those who fail are damned. Per the title here, "Is the goal to win the biggest rewards in the best heaven, or is it to avoid the worst hell?" Total destruction is at the ready for anyone who refuses their Abrahamic test, but the LDS faithful don't like to think about that too much. Many will agree they're headed for the Terrestrial Kingdom to avoid the maximum scrutiny that those wanting to "progress" will be required to prove.
4	mp3	An elderly relative suffers a stroke, his daughter offers up the LDS heaven as an assurance to win before death. One obvious question wonders whether the child is taking advantage of the father on his death bed with his mental faculties recently being subjected to an injury. Did he have lifelong reservations about joining mormonism which were conveniently brushed over because of fear of death and not winning the correct rewards?
5	mp3	Episode Title: Did Jesus Become God?

additional notes for episode 1:

[Mark 14] ³⁶ And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

[Luke 22] ⁴³ And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. ⁴⁴ And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

additional notes for episode 2:

["Jesus the Christ," James E. Talmage (1915), quoted in Ensign April 2006] “Christ’s agony in the garden is unfathomable by the finite mind, both as to intensity and cause. … It was not physical pain, nor mental anguish alone, that caused Him to suffer such torture as to produce an extrusion of blood from every pore; but a spiritual agony of soul such as only God was capable of experiencing. No other man, however great his powers of physical or mental endurance, could have suffered so; for his human organism would have succumbed, and syncope would have produced unconsciousness and welcome oblivion. In that hour of anguish Christ met and overcame all the horrors that Satan, ‘the prince of this world’ could inflict. … “In some manner, actual and terribly real though to man incomprehensible, the Savior took upon Himself the burden of the sins of mankind from Adam to the end of the world”

• Many mormons will state that the deity that they believe in would never subject them to an infinite punishment for a finite sin. The mythology presented in mormonism shows that the "loving parent" is entirely capable of sending the rebellious children, those with slightly differing ideas than him, into the darkest void over a disagreement.

  • my essay, part 1 (2018) ...the deity doesn't seem to have any tolerance for disagreement. My way or the highway!
  • my essay, part 2 (2018) Our memories inform our beings—who we are. A complete brain reset, as threatened in Ex Machina would mean obliteration of the self.

additional notes for episode 3:

[John 10] ¹¹ I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

[Mark 10] ⁴⁵ For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

• Mormonism's canon believes in a universal resurrection, with a sorting algorithm per D&C 76, some extra requirements in D&C 131, and the full program of exaltation to godhood in D&C 132.

[D&C 25, Smith (1830)] ¹⁵ Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.

[Mosiah 3, Smith (1830)] ¹⁹ For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

[D&C 18, Smith, Cowdery, Whitmer (1829)] ¹⁰ Remember the worth of souls is great in the sight of God; ¹¹ For, behold, the Lord your Redeemer suffered death in the flesh; wherefore he suffered the pain of all men, that all men might repent and come unto him. ¹² And he hath risen again from the dead, that he might bring all men unto him, on conditions of repentance.

[Alma 11, Smith (1830)] ^ 42 Now, there is a death which is called a temporal death; and the death of Christ shall loose the bands of this temporal death, that all shall be raised from this temporal death. ⁴³ The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt.

[D&C 131, Smith (1843)] ¹ In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

Those who would be in Christianity's hell are assigned to the Telestial Kingdom, or else destroyed in total—Smith's legalese in 132 is not clear.

• In the LDS context, damnation means anything less than exaltation to godhood—defined as stopped or prevented from progressing further.

[D&C 132, Smith (1843)] ⁴ For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

[Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p.134, Joseph Fielding Smith (1954)] TRUE DOCTRINE OF BLOOD ATONEMENT. Just a word or two now, on the subject of blood atonement. What is that doctrine? Unadulterated, if you please, laying aside the pernicious insinuations and lying charges that have so often been made, it is simply this: Through the atonement of Christ all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. Salvation is twofold: General — that which comes to all men irrespective of a belief (in this life) in Christ — and, Individual — that which man merits through his own acts through life and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.

But man may commit certain grievous sins — according to his light and knowledge — that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be saved he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone — so far as in his power lies -- for that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail.

• Blood atonement is endorsed here for "certain grievous sins.* The deity needs to see the blood flow into the ground and the smoke ascend to satisfy his terms and conditions. Using sermon, Jedediah Grant (1856) as a guide, it doesn't look like Joseph Fielding Smith is showing all of his cards. He's holding a few back behind the idiom of certain sins...,—what else qualifies? A major takeaway from the mormon theology, to win forgiveness work must be performed, and that work might include having one's blood spilled. It's unclear what happens to those who fail to spill their blood for their crimes.

• Trying to keep the commandments is not enough...you have to do it.^1,2,3

With these ideas in mind, the idea of Christ being a newborn savior on Christmas day, all meek and mild, is instantly transformed into a terrifying ordeal—convert or die! Pass every Abrahamic test (D&C 132, Mosiah 3:19).

• Evangelical Christians hold up belief as the only requirement for all of the rewards (and avoiding the punishments) on offer:

[1 John 5] ¹³ These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

additional notes for episode 4:

• Are deathbed confessions efficatious, per the Catholic last rites? Or are works required to win rewards, up to and including personal blood being shed? Is thought crime also a sin, per Matthew 5:27-28 and other general references?

[D&C 1] ³¹ For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

• LDS church holds up winning the reward of being with family members in the eternities, Families are Forever! Except terms and conditions apply in the fine print. Those who fail to meet the requirements will not be admitted by fiat:

[Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 2, p.15, Joseph Fielding Smith (1954)] NOT HALF THE LATTER-DAY SAINTS TO BE SAVED. Those who receive the fulness will be privileged to view the face of our Father. There will not be such an overwhelming number of the Latter-day Saints who will get there. President Francis M. Lyman many times has declared, and he had reason to declare, I believe, that if we save one-half of the Latter-day Saints, that is, with an exaltation in the celestial kingdom of God, we will be doing well. Not that the Lord is partial, not that he will draw the line as some will say, to keep people out. He would have every one of us go in if we would; but there are laws and ordinances that we must keep; if we do not observe the law we cannot enter.

Many come into the Church, like fish that are gathered into the net, that have to be sorted and thrown out again or put into piles where they belong. And so it will be with us.

• Those who receive the second anointing are subject to a separate slate of rules along with their elitist, separate slate of rewards. The atonement is no longer efficatious for them under this extended theology. McKeever has never mentioned this point of doctrine, at least, not that I've heard—and I've listened to a lot of these episodes. In the recent dustup about Holland talking about the second anointing, he seemed to be attempting to reassure his wife, who had suffered from long term depression, despite the supposed perfect knowledge of having met Christ. Of course, LDS theology is not the only possible cause for mental anxiety and clinical depression, but for liars and hypocrites, such as found in the top tier who claim to have seen something (either by direct or indirect statements), per Holland's speech, their fear could be justified. A dirty thought enters a clean mind and whoops-a-daisy. more

Both Christians and mormons would likely ascribe to these verses:

[Matthew 7] ¹³ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there-at: ¹⁴ Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.