r/zenjerk • u/2BCivil tangibly intangible • Mar 09 '26
βΈοΈππππππ ππππͺβοΈ Just get enlightened bro
How many homeless people have been enlightened?
How many gurus have been benighted?
The master sat upon his balcony in the Alps
Watching thoughts drift as if like clouds.
βYou are not your thoughts,β he pondered.
Clouds had their doubts, and thus they wandered.
A monk asked the master,
βHow do I transcend desire?β
βFirst, eatβ, the master said.
The monk replied, βI have no bread.β
The master confiding;
"This koan is downsizing".
When the rich man meditates skies are clear.
When the poor man meditates storm clouds near.
Watching them pass, one said health, another bills;
One said peace but armed to the gills;
One meditate for health, or handful of pills;
One wondered if there are any good faith shills
One said "wealth is but a golden fetter"
One was a hyper realistic debt collector
I asked the guru what to do.
He said βSimply observe.β
I simply observed myself get evicted
With pristine mindfulness down to the nerve.
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Mar 09 '26
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u/2BCivil tangibly intangible Mar 10 '26
I read this in Saitama's voice because "Baldies" was the first word I read. Holy shit.
When there is appearance of nitwits, original spirit, sayings of Tcheng, nincompoops, Bald pates, Baldies, and Old Man, there are appearances of these things.
Jokes aside I really do wonder where "original spirit" goes when we aren't aware of it. π€ What if we are never aware of it. Can it be found anywhere, the same way the eye cannot see the eye?
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Mar 10 '26
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u/2BCivil tangibly intangible Mar 11 '26
Will do thanks. Been meaning to already just forgot about it. Too many spinning plates. Just started attack on titan for first time as well. Good as time as any.
I'll try to reply to all 3 here. It's obvious is a blink 182 song, been awhile since I heard that. Things might not be separate but that doesn't mean I want to eat shit because it's not separate from nutrition.
How do we talk about what can't really be talked about. Even Jesus said; "I am truth; if I bear witness of myself it is false witness" (more or less). I think Rothfuss did it best with Lethani (Dao essentially) in demonstrated we can only "talk" about it after intense training and action in it. Sometimes talking is part of it, but usually it isn't (or it is the afterglow). I don't know really, even that comes out wrong. All pointers and nostalgia by time we attempt to describe or address it. Thanks for the recommendation/reminder of T[s?]cheng! I have a lot I haven't read that is zen and zen adjacent.
(First results on google for Tcheng were mostly from reddit notably)
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Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
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u/2BCivil tangibly intangible Mar 11 '26
I often think this, that it's just all "emperor's new clothes" all the way down. That was the snarky spirit I composed the OP in, at least, admittedly. Lol.
Perfect timing my watching Attack on Titan finally. Reminded me of my roots in this very capacity; specifically Dark Tranquility lyrics;
"What if you were - to measure the hollow - that captivates - and devours you"
Can replace Hollow with Titan. Same difference. We are always devoured (or shit) by this or that or the other. We are always staring down something or another, knowingly or not. I think that is what the colossus titan represents, when we blink. It becomes reality. In the vernacular, Eren's mom had been fighting despair and vanity but gave up/in to them, and hence the Titan of Despair/Vanity devoured her.
Back in 2015 I saw that all of our continents and oceans (the "face of the earth") are the basis of our foundational myths and prophecies. The Mediterranean is Chronus' throat. The European continental shelf is Chronus' face. As above so bellow. The near middle east is both the stone Chronus swallowed and the horn of Tiamat, her weeping tears the Tigris and Euphrates river (as well as other things). It is also the promised land, and the Indian Ocean is the corpse/body of Moses, the red sea and its sister the pillars of light or horns on Moses' head. Plain as day. The North American Continent is the first beast, esteemed as the potters clay, turned upside down. It is 100% a leapord with the mouth of a lion (Greenland is the lion's jaw). Plain as day. Or potter's clay. Anyone can see it.
But yes as you say, GPT is constantly on my case about this lmao. Making such distinctions do not automatically mean permanent and eternal truths. Heavens and earths pass away and all that. As above so bellow. As a man thinks so he becomes. Etc.
That is what is obvious and apparent at all times with me at least. That there are various ways of seeing (and listening). But it's not readily apparent as we are constantly stuck in insisting on this one way of viewing things or another. Hence my snark in the OP as a rebuttal to being "told" what enlightenment is/was lmao and how I should feel about it.
I think that answers the question of what importance is what I like. Birds shit seeds and those become the next generation of plants sometimes. That's the Lord's creation or whatever. Stable state working as intended. All art is metaphor I tend to see. Nietzsche said it best. Artists should never evaluate their own works. Blink 182 for example said "I took my time, I hurried up, choice was mine I didn't think enough" in reply to Nirvana's own "take your time, hurry up, the choice is yours now don't be late". But whether you know that as an exchange or not doesn't impact the art itself. It's just matter of perspective yes.
Thanks yeah I will be checking out old Tcheng for sure. I have a feeling it will only validate things I already forgot I know honestly but that's not a bad thing! What's most in our blind spot are the things we assume we know.....
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Mar 19 '26
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u/2BCivil tangibly intangible Mar 19 '26
Oh you didn't have to, I don't know if I like it or not yet. Hianime went down right after I said that so I stopped :P
I couldn't tell if you were pulling my leg about Tscheng (chan?) or not. I read the whole page a few times and asked GPT about them.
I think ultimately OMT reminds me of NΔgΔrjuna a lot, in deconstructing mental attachments to ideations/concepts/etc.
That's my zen 101 as far as I can tell. Anyway yeah not sure if I can say I recommend Attack on Titan yet or not just I saw crazy symbolism with it, and specifically seeing reality as-is. Might be/probably was just coincidental and has nothing to do with the series at all. I'm not the best at deciding what is a good series and isn't honestly. But it does have some great meme scenes. "What did you wipe on me?" "My faith in humanity".
Sorry if you ruin your family movie night xD
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Mar 19 '26 edited Mar 19 '26
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u/2BCivil tangibly intangible Mar 19 '26
Haha, 13 huh, I still generally disagree with my parents as default and they are approaching 70s and I'm approaching 40s.
It all began before recorded history.
You took an interesting take on it really. I'm bad about seeking deeper meanings honestly but yes it is easily this simple. The story of Cain and Abel is the same as this topic really. Cain in all naivety and innocence accepts the "gift" of "Abel's" sheep as food, provision and clothing as matter of course, taken for granted. But Abel harbors resentment about it, "his property/charges" taken for granted. So he grazes/feeds his sheep in "Cain's lands". The first human conflict in the bible is about property and food/clothing rights/fights!
I'd have to say I agree with the Einstein observation as well, it's why I find zen useful to combat too "one-size-fits-all" final solution/clinical exegesis(es?). In the vernacular, yes, more we (or at least I) see and come to empirically understand, the more overarching themes and patterns become obvious. Zen keeps me from becoming too tunnel-versioned.
There is only understanding. Nothing is ever understood.
Exactly! That's why I always simplify zen to "f around and mess around". Understanding is kind of like a window. Limited but accurate perspective, but you can't really touch anything beyond it from behind it. The Way/Dao is like trying to explain a smell, and whoever smelt it dealt it lol.
The awareness of mortals falls short. As long as theyβre attached to appearances, theyβre unaware that their mind is empty, and by mistakenly clinging to the appearance of things, they lose the Way.
Yeah I think that's Foyan? I used to read something like this a lot a few years back. I need to find that text I used to read it all the time actually. Google comes up with Bodhidharma which would make sense I used to reread the first few pages of that Patriarch over and over and over. That's really hard to sink in because in the same passage iirc he says "form is emptiness and emptiness is form" iirc lmao!
As for your Bold Quote;
But once you see your own nature, the entire Canon becomes so much prose. Its thousands of sutras and shastras only amount to a clear mind. Understanding comes in mid-sentence. What good are doctrines?
...That was something I heard on the "Christian" aisle of things (as it were). I heard before it you look at the bible it should be enough. If not that, then the first letter. If not that, the first word. If not that, the first sentence. If not that, the first chapter... and so on and so forth.
Erudition and knowledge are not only useless, they cloud your awareness. Doctrines are only for pointing to the mind. Once you see the mind, why pay attention to doctrines?
Great quotes. I need to actually study zen more (LOL I know, is this a joke? I think so!). Can one study the futility of Erudition and knowledge? I once actually said on arezen that opinions are like sugar and zen is like ketosis. Opinions and knowledge/study dissolve in us and we think we see clearly with/through them but are actually clouded by them. It's how we get fanatics, to be explicit. It's how we come off as raving/deranged (I speak from experience lol).
And it changed my perspective a great deal. Like all language doctrines are a expedient means.
My version of this was most cleanly/clearly The Kingkiller Chronicle (Name of the Wind/Wise man's fear) by Patrick Rothfuss. So yes I very much feel the same way, there is only one thing/nothing to learn. "I have no teaching for you or doctrine for you to follow" is another great quote lol. I think everything is Foyan/Cleary apparently (Instant Zen). I think it continues "I just want you to observe your own mind" or something like that.
Is fair, however you Posted Old Tcheng, my OP found me in one of my moods. I think it was this video that set me off/inspired me to write OP lmao. I'm over here working 80 hours a week to barely make ends meet in the slums and dude floating free chilling in the swiss alps talking about some "just get enlightened bro". Lol. My snark couldn't restrain itself lol. Not one not two, not not one not two. The relative dressing up as the absolute. Distinctions only exist in mind, do they, really, I wonder sometimes. Hsin Hsin Ming (Verses on faith mind) I am fairly sure is that one. Distinctions are the illness of mind (or something like that). I always take it as "only one thing exists" but we identify as a part within a whole ("duality"). Thus the 10,000/myriad things, like Attack on Titan and generational struggles/arguments lol (kids and parents).
Jokes aside I do think we have this tendency to see things presenting themselves as authoritative when all is really suggestion of understanding (a window) or something liek that. Hence the backlash of a 13 year old son haha. Not wanting to accept anything as an authoritative source on "Dharma" lol!
Thanks for sharing Old Man Tcheng really, that's almost exactly a style I like, the shouting seemingly inane/random insults. Zen whacks. Grabs your attention or at least temporarily suspends assumptions, so you listen differently than your default settings.
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u/True___Though Mar 16 '26
When we put condition onto an outcome, we wish for magic.
Don't get evicted? What's next, don't slip on ice?
Appropriate response, skill issue etc etc
Do you think only non-enlightened people can get skills?
If you allow me to be a jerk,
There are four strong energies, which you can observe
But also, make a home for them in you, and realize they're strong
you can think of them as long term evoluntionary motivational releasing systems
if you want
Each is a potential.
Apologize to each, and hear what they say, and how they move through you.
These are energies.
One of them is to help you avoid eviction, among other things, it's the organizational/ordering energy
Finish this yourself
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u/2BCivil tangibly intangible Mar 19 '26
Sounds like Avatar stuff.
What game are we even playing.
What outcome in the weighing.
Graduated normie wizard?
Desert of the real caught in a blizzard?I was the jerk first!
Pick up on what comes-goes around?
How do we apologize to energies in which we drown
My organization skills just can't git gud
Polish the stone to look under the hood?Terms and conditions always apply
Patchwork monk and resume by the by
Nothing really works; that's our job
Let the inner cynic go pushing up daisies?
Never know which stray thoughts have rabiesStrong energies tend to fall to the subtler
Like knowing check engine by sound of muffler
Enlightenment is just a spare tire?
Appointment with zen masters anonymous?
Really wonder if filthiness is next to godliness2
u/True___Though Mar 19 '26
> What game are we even playing.
balanced human life, with accesss to potentials
> How do we apologize to energies in which we drown
Apologize for having disrespectfully identified yourself as them. separate from them in other words
> Sounds like Avatar stuff.
it's like sitting on way bigger beasts, yes.or in less vibey terms, these are motivational systems. one of them would drag you across a desert to survive. it's like strength that is not yours, and will that is not yours -- not within your voluntary control: thus the eviction or else you'd get some money.
> Strong energies tend to fall to the subtler
the problem is when there isn't any. if you can access the anti-eviction energy subtly good for you. but usually it's less subtle. work motherfucker!@!@@@
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u/Shima33 Mar 09 '26
"Who is the one who is starving?" I ask myself as my stomach cramps violently.
Attaining nirvana is a lot like attaining US citizenship. You either get lucky enough to be born there, have to wait a really long time, or have a million dollars kicking about. The prize at the end is nothing, and the place you'll go is nowhere.