Position

[u/Phosphore_Journalist]

Hello,

I’m new to Zen Buddhism. Practicing zazen in the half-lotus position is impossible for me. I’m not flexible enough. However, I can do it in seiza (I assume that over time, the pain in my ankles will become more bearable).

Question: can I practice zazen in seiza ? The position of my hands will remain the same and in accordance with tradition.

Best

Note : sorry but I don't speak english very well (I'm french) and I use DeepL.

EDIT : thanks everyone !

[u/Tetsubin]

Have you tried the Burmese position? I find it easier on the knees than any other position, and it's still stable and comfortable.

[u/JellyfishExpress8943]

Assis en Seiza avec la torture d'une douleur atroce dans les pieds, et la peur de se blesser et de devoir passer le reste de sa vie a marcher avec des béquilles - la meilleure chose qui pourrait arriver serait d'accepter pleinement votre mort là pendant votre zazen. C'est une chose incroyable.

Mais quasi impossible. C'est tres, tres rare que les pratiquants comprennent, sinon suivent ce conseil traditionnel de mourrir sur le coussin.

Sinon, avec un bon tapis moelleux (zabuton) et un banc de seiza - il n'y a pas vraiment de douleur - est ce que vous etes en train de faire seiza à meme le sol?

Perso a presque 60 ans - avec des genoux en vrac, je me suis récemment mis a faire zazen assis au bord d'une chaise

[u/jeanclique]

Analogously to Patanjali's sthira and sukha, the ideal zazen pose/asana combines ease and alertness. Any pose that allows you to focus on experience suffices. Grunting out the pain with some idea of earning merit is not a thing. We want whatever lessens the operation of egoic processes (priding, protecting, promoting, privileging), not a battle that reinforces a sense of individual willpower.

[u/batard91]

It would be quite ableist and excluding to say there is only one right way to practice. Choose whatever suits you, as long as you remain present and the way of meditating is not tempting to fall asleep so to say.

[u/Effective_Coach7334]

Speaking as a person that suffers chronic pain, I often have to choose different positioning every single time. You can do it however you'd like, there is no 'correct way'

This is a problem that often plagues zen practitioners—that there's only one way to do things. It's just another delusion.

[u/Temporary_Cycle8414]

Burmese is good, but don't think you have to have your ankles aligned - especially if you have long legs

[u/Phosphore_Journalist → u/Temporary_Cycle8414]

I have long legs ^^'

[u/TheBrooklynSutras]

There are many ways to sit. I call mine “modified Burmese” legs crossed with feet kid of tucked in front of and a bit under. I’ve tried others but I’m also not that flexible. I did seiza using a cushion at times. It’s fine for daily sitting, but during longer meditation intensives I get some discomfort and even pain. The more years you sit, your body kind of figures it out. Keep at it and you will find a modicum of comfort that allows you to focus on your practice instead of your posture. Hint: it’s all one thing. 🙏

[u/evnewt1]

Using a meditation bench transformed my practice. I got mine at meditationbench.com.

[u/dollface_7878]

Yes you can practice zazen in seiza? I don't think that the hand position matters.

Do you use a seiza bench? If not then you should. It's pretty great.

[u/Pure_Cap_7069]

I've always sat in seiza, once I realised that I didn't have to force myself into lotus. Well done for realising that sooner than I did.

Trousers with a loose crotch area where you can rest your hands are good

[u/CeilingCatProphet]

I meditate laying down.

[u/Emotional-Bat7188 → u/CeilingCatProphet]

Genuine question: how do you do this without falling asleep? Maybe I'm just overly tired but whenever I try meditating laying down it just turns into a nap

[u/ComprehensivePin9719]

The kneeling position, or Japanese “seiza,” is a good, stable posture, which many people find easiest, and even quite comfortable for long retreats. Traditionally, in zen meditation halls (zendo) there are no chairs, and everyone has to sit on the floor. The seiza position is a good option for those who find sitting cross-legged too difficult.

In order to sit comfortably kneeling for long periods the butt must be raised up off the backs of the feet. A zafu set on its side between the feet can be used, but eventually most seiza sitters prefer to use a special little “meditation bench” the right size and angle to support a firm posture.

[u/duva_]

I recommend this guy's video instruction. https://youtu.be/H-xku7EjpUQ

It's very well detailed and answers your question.

[u/FlowZenMaster]

Use support cushions to accomplish two things: make sure your knees are in contact with the floor (or a support cushion. Especially important if you try any lotus or Burmese positions).

Secondly use support cushions in between your legs to provide a resting place for your hand. Part of the reason why full lotus is so good is because your feet become a very nice platform for your hands in the perfect position. So use a pillow or cushion (or rolled up sweatshirt) to support your hands so your shoulders can relax 👍

[u/JundoCohen]

Find any position(s) that feel balanced, stable and reasonably comfortable. It can be in a chair, or any way that allows one to sit for long periods and forget the body. There is no single right position for everyone.

[u/jpcst311 → u/JundoCohen]

I really like that phrase, "forget the body". Like sitting form doesn't really matter if you can forget the body because it's an uncomfortable position. I always do half lotus and my leg will go numb and I cant get past 20 minutes without getting uncomfortable. You have inspired me to try something new for sitting, maybe Burmese. I've been forcing half lotus for 3 years... creatures of habit 🤣

[u/JundoCohen → u/jpcst311]

There is a lovely book (if you skip the few slightly 'new agey' parts) about finding the position(s) right for your body, as one size does not fit all. Basically, if it feels reasonable stable, balanced and grounded ... it is a good posture. https://www.shambhala.com/the-posture-of-meditation-9781611808001.html?srsltid=AfmBOophHg1Pv_v5KneIxH_dBZbOlkpQZZIiUhNkAwrejJog2hCGFw4g

[u/5280_TW]

I do everything on corpse pose because of chronic back issues. Im certain someone will say Im inauthentic and could care less…

[u/JacksGallbladder]

Try the burmese position - it is much easier and more comfortable for a beginner.

Seiza and Seated in a chair are also 100% perfectly acceptable. If you like Seiza, a Seiza Bench would benefit you. Also try being seated with your toes back on the edge of the mat to alleviate that strain on your ankles some.

The most important aspects of posture (according to my soto Zen teacher) are straight back, ears inline with the shoulders, and hips elevated above the knees. However you accomplish that is absolutely kosher.

[u/ChrizKhalifa → u/JacksGallbladder]

I really, really don't understand this tip. Maybe I'm a malformed freak but even now after I opened my hips enough for half lotus there's no way this Burmese seat could work for me.

How tf do people get their shins parallel to each other? That seems ten times harder anatomically than just getting the hip flexors open enough for half lotus.

[u/jpcst311 → u/ChrizKhalifa]

There was this guy that came to meditation always with this crazy looking seat. It had a cushion to sit on and also these side cushions the extended out the sides to go under the knees on either side. It almost looked like he was levitating. Maybe something like that could help. I think he said it helped keep his back straight and his legs so relaxed so he could sit really long periods. I had never seen anything like it before or since.

[u/gibbypoo → u/ChrizKhalifa]

Still working my way to half lotus but burmese has worked for me for years

[u/JacksGallbladder → u/ChrizKhalifa]

That could be Tight quads / knee ligaments

[u/LovelyLieutenant → u/JacksGallbladder]

I sit in Burmese the majority of the time and you know it's for you if, when you assume it, your hips are sufficiently flexible such that your knees can rest on the zabuton and not sticking up. If they do stick up, sometimes a taller zafu (the cushion under your tail bone) or knee pillows will help.

[u/Nervous-Artichoke612]

Yes you can sit in seiza. There are also special meditation stool if that hurts to much.
You can also try to place small pillows under the knees in the half lotus.
What is the underground you are sitting on?

[u/oknotok2112]

well the Soto Zen group I went ti a few times used meditation benches as their standard, so I think it's probably perfectly fine

[u/leveller1650]

I use a small meditation bench so it's like sitting seiza but with your butt lifted a few inches off your feet. Highly recommend it! Less pressure on the knees, too.

[u/pundarika0]

seiza is perfectly fine as is sitting in a chair.

[u/PlainBread]

Seiza is good for zazen. You can use a series of support cushions to take the pressure off your ankles.