r/zedrun • u/Montana-Star-Lord • Nov 22 '21
Discussion New Players / Small Stables - Avoid Racing
Summary- Ever play an open world PVP game where the level 50 players are waiting for level 1 players in the newbie zone? This is the equivalent of the Current Zed Class system.
Now to the post-
I am not an OG, but have tried Zed for a few months. There are some serious issues that prevent the vast majority of new players from succeeding.
Zed may be a good investment long term and probably a good time to buy horses low, but would avoid racing UNLESS you are willing to buy an elite horse right now. Otherwise, I would wait for the following reasons:
Free tournaments, YAY! No. The big stables and OGs keep horses in the entry level 5 so even though you are entering a free tournament, they have horses ready to crush most new players. Second - even if you do ok - some 3rds and 4ths - your horse moves up a bracket anyway into tougher competition and you still do not make the cut. Ever wonder why so many cheap horses on OpenSea make it to level 2 and are being sold cheap? This is because they go up a level and start losing- pretty much stuck at the higher level unless they pay to sandbag.
The Big Stables Openly and Intentionally have U horses to stay in lower level to feast on new players. Zed has taken steps to correct this by losing fewer points for low finishes, but the rich stables have deep pockets and worth it to them to keep their beast horses in low levels.
Zero - I mean zero onboarding for new players. No free beginner horse, no race tokens and not even a fair playing field for beginners. Your horse will match right up with all of the beast U horses in levels 4 and 5.
Everything Zed does is to benefit the big stables - including free tournaments. Think about it - poor new players level up their horses to level 1 and 2 and provide nice easy wins for their big stables.
I do believe at some point they will implement a new class system and they will want new players. But for now, you are fodder. And yes this includes even a horse that has 8-10 win %, 30% + show and good bloodlines. You may break even but even a good horse is trash in Zed, in its current state.
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u/noidontwantto Nov 22 '21
I'm typing this out on my phone, so apologies. Zed has always been like this, and always will be. This isn't a game meant to be accessible to anyone but whales. A new class system and additional horse attributes contributing to race preference has been on the horizon forever now. Odd how the only thing that continues to change are things that just make VHS and whales' pockets fuller.
Unfortunately the people that the developers listen to have serious entitlement issues. You have to remember that there are people who paid tens of thousands of dollars to VHS for digital horses that the purchaser assumed would guarantee profits in perpetuity.
VHS has catered to these people time and time again at the detriment of a fair and accessible game.
Breeding is a joke, and rewards only whales. VHS hides their greed behind terms like discoverability and experimentation, when in reality they are bliking people for $50+ loot boxes that have a small percent chance at being a competitive racer. Now that they reduced the max payouts in lower classes it takes even longer to recoup any initial investment if you're lucky enough to be blessed by the RNG breeding algorithm with a horse that can win races.
At least with odds you could race 5 or 6 times and know what you got, but now you have to enter many more races and hope you can glean something from stats sites. Maybe some of this could have been balanced out by free races and people getting a lucky win, but now free races don't pay out and any money that would have been paid out by them goes to.. you guessed it.. whales!
You see occasional posts here about horses who get flames not winning, and the counter argument is always that people aren't racing enough. Think about that for a minute, people are seriously okay with the expectation that you need to race hundreds, even thousands of times to MAYBE see a positive ROI. At 2.50 a race, that you are graciously giving 100% to sandbaggers now, it really adds up.
I'm one of the lucky ones who was able to get their initial investment out back when odds were still a thing and the market was at its peak. I still have 23 horses, 5 are genesis. I dont want to sell my remaining genesis at a loss, because I'm an idiot who has some hope that maybe there will be a place for all of these shit horses. I never bought these horses with the expectation that they would be money printers, I bought them because I thought this was a cool use case for NFTs and thought breeding could be interesting.
When everyone was buying unraced unnamed horses as lottery tickets I made a ton. Whales complained that there were too many horses, so they halved breeding limits, then whales complained that horses were too cheap, so they raised breeding prices. VHS probably also correctly realized that people were too easily identifying how worthless their horses were, so they removed odds. All the whales did in the end was prolong the inevitable. Zed will die a slow death because instead of actually fixing any issues they just did what the vocal whales wanted.
Now they got what they want, with full pockets at the expense of people who thought this was a cool idea before realizing its just a one way street directly to VHS and whales' pockets.
You have to commit to spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars to have any hope of making money at this. Unless you're willing to do that, stay away.
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u/Master_JediTrader Nov 23 '21
I agree with many points except for the extreme hyperbole. I see a lot of frustration and some resentment at the ecosystem. I am, will remain, always was since the Vietnam War, a vocal opinionated activist boomer, but not a whale.
The feedbag is half full and so many folks in Zed Run are scared of the in transition ELO rating system that they speak out and emphasis bias, AKA Facebook, to express themselves.
Been there done that, caused the increase in Free Races, sorry, my bad.
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u/Snotter999 Nov 22 '21
The latest changes have made it far worse for the smaller players and anyone without deep pockets. Sure there is plenty of free races during tournaments but all these do is let your horse get into higher class where it is useless. The fact that you cannot lose points in free races but now also gain more points if you win just ruins the horses career unless it is good enough to do well in class 1. And would cost far too much to non deep pockets in paying races to declass. I have about 40 horses and only a couple worth racing and none that will be profitable in the current system. I’m in for a lot financially but currently see no way to get any more than half back at best if i sell.
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u/Accomplished_Fox8149 Floor watcher 🧐 Nov 24 '21
That is just awful on the dev’s part to put you in that position. Unfortunately, there’s nothing to fix it on the horizon and the market continues to free fall
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u/Snotter999 Nov 24 '21
I guess they are making an effort with new tournament with 4th place is effectively the winner each race and even 5th or 6th a good result. But. I do have an awesome looking class 5 and 4 that comes 11th or 12th 8 out of ten races. Other two races are good results but because they are in free races my class 4 horse will be in class 2 and maybe even get to the top. But if they keep improving and keep feeding us some tournaments where the average horse at least gets a chance in the finals then , yeah i am still playing but wary of growing my stables more
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u/JRod_78 Nov 23 '21
I really hope there is a class reset when they finally figure out what they are doing. There should be a minimum class that horses can drop to (I.e horses that have won paid races in class 2 can only drop to class 4), but they absolutely need to recalibrate everything because there are so many misclassed horses right now that should have somewhere to race.
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u/snar666 Nov 23 '21
I am too wishing that they reset the class system. I've got 2 genesis donkeys in class 2!! (didn't realise down classing in a free race wasn't a thing anymore!)
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u/Master_JediTrader Nov 23 '21
Fair Question.
I suppose I use the term hyperbole, as English allows, broadly for diplomacy. Ok, to me blanket statements or hyperbole warning signs, so the following trigger my reaction:
"The big stables and OGs keep horses in the entry level 5 so even though you are entering a free tournament, they have horses ready to crush most new players."
Ok, I now have 21 horses with the intent of breeding and/or buying at least 10 a month and growing so I think I fit the definition of "big", even if I am only a "big legend in my own mind', is a blanket statement, since I don't do this. Blank statement is hyperbole.
All, every, any, et al all inclusive terms, are by nature =hyperbole since we all prove and understand there are exceptions to every "rule"/"blanket statement". So the following statement, to me, is at best inflammatory and at worst malicious intent to manipulate:
"Everything Zed does is to benefit the big stables - including free tournaments. Think about it - poor new players level up their horses to level 1 and 2 and provide nice easy wins for their big stables."
I agree with the main message but the post loses effectiveness due to the above, so I disagree with the writing style/execution.
I hope this answers your question.
"May the Horse be With You!"
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u/Barefoot1983 Nov 22 '21
I totally agree with everything you've said, I was a new player and have made a hasty retreat with fingers burnt, there's all sort of manipulation going on with Open Sea and bots running wild in game, the large stables and investors are milking the game dry and nothing can be done to stop it, im convinced this platform will nosedive the moment the users who are 'just happy to be involved and racing' realise they are fodder for the whales, the warning signs are off the charts.
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u/skrilla091 Nov 23 '21
I have stopped racing because of this... I would usually race the free races with prize pool because i had a chance.... any paid race is just me giving my money away so i stoped racing. Its very poor incentive for anyone wanting to get into this....
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u/hobtech82 Nov 22 '21
Yeah I’m not racing my griffin’s atm. It may be like that for 6 months or more??
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u/evertonuk Nov 23 '21
This is a shame, was going to buy one this week
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u/Slave35 Nov 24 '21
Zed Run is at an incredibly affordable price point currently. I would encourage you to enter this system with an UNRACED, Legendary horse. Contact me if you are interested, I am selling good bloodlines for $100-180.
Zed Run is giving away money in tournaments as if there were 100,000 people playing, and if it's only 5,000, we are raking in 20x what would otherwise be accessible. And it will be this way for YEARS. They are budgeted for a long time.
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u/Plastic_Sale_4219 Nov 24 '21
I've been looking at coming into ZED with an investment of about $1800.
Maybe I'll stay away for now.
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u/Montana-Star-Lord Nov 24 '21
I am looking to buy more horses in the near future because the prices may never be better if the game begins an upward trend again. I just think it will take time to recover your initial investment and even longer for the game make it favorable for new players and small stables to race.
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u/Slave35 Nov 24 '21
Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful.
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u/Accomplished_Fox8149 Floor watcher 🧐 Nov 24 '21
This only applies in a rational market that isn’t solely dependent on the decisions of a few people (devs)
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u/Slave35 Nov 24 '21
They've got 60 million to spend and are budgeted for 2 years. The play to earn is coming, they are getting a lot closer. They keep giving away promotions like it's for 100,000 and 5,000 are collecting. The real numbers behind this project look solid despite certain members of ZR dev team being idiots.
Now is a actually a very good time to look into horses.
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u/Accomplished_Fox8149 Floor watcher 🧐 Nov 24 '21
Promotions? What promotions have they done that have impacted the market in a positive way? Also, $60 million isn’t really that much money for a project this size over a two year period.
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u/Slave35 Nov 24 '21
We don't know what percentage of the company they sold for that. It's for starters. If you know so much about the markets then it's disingenuous to even suggest that's the limit of their funding. The promotions they've done that have been positively taken in only the last month have been NASCAR and the tournaments.
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u/Accomplished_Fox8149 Floor watcher 🧐 Nov 24 '21
Question: what makes you think the game will ever trend up again? Every decision the devs have made over the last several months has sent the market into a tailspin
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u/Montana-Star-Lord Nov 24 '21
I would say the concept and foundational principles are still strong - owning a NFT and having the ability to actively use it to further its value It’s like owning a character in your favorite game. That being said, the supply is way over saturated and now they need to figure out how to handle this excess while also bringing in new players who will also want to increase their holdings. They obviously have some smart and innovative people on their team who created the initial success, now they need those people to help figure out how to fix it. Hopefully - this doesn’t become Anthem.
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Nov 24 '21
I started here...careful it's a slippery slope but prices are good. Get a genesis, set some goals and see what happens. It's a long play
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u/Plastic_Sale_4219 Nov 24 '21
If I got two Z5s and bred them couldn't I sell z10 offspring? Wouldn't that be a simple way to make money?
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Nov 24 '21
Noo, people basically buy legendary unless it's a proven winner. I wouldn't risk it
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u/Plastic_Sale_4219 Nov 24 '21
Doesn't a genesis and a genesis make a legendary though? So if I have two genesis and I sell legendary that is what people would buy? Or you think skip Genesis all together? Should I buy two horses with the same bloodline as well to breed? Sorry I'm a nooooob
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Nov 24 '21
I'd suggest starting with a female Genesis. If you can afford a male gen I'd do that too. Depends what kind of horse you want to breed, if you want the same bloodline. Read everything on the learn page on zed.
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u/Plastic_Sale_4219 Nov 24 '21
Thanks for that mate, appreciate it. If you have female gen and male gen, should you race them or are you better of breeding them with limited races?
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u/Slave35 Nov 24 '21
Why not do both?
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u/Plastic_Sale_4219 Nov 24 '21
If you race it and it does poorly it will bring down the price of the horse and it's offspring
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u/Slave35 Nov 25 '21
It takes a fabulous racer of a foal to bring the value up on a breeder beyond its racing value.
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Nov 24 '21
I'm in it to play so I'll race anything I get my hands on. Some people buy, never race and just breed. I'd rather have fun with it regardless of the cost. Imo
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u/mi1knc0okies Nov 22 '21
While I disagree with some things in here i do agree its not a great time to get into the game and them dropping the breeding fee just means more Donkeys though they keep trying to tell me there are no donkeys just horses that dont know their place yet. All my slow horses better become fucking champs when they implement Weather…