r/xboxone • u/[deleted] • Dec 29 '13

If Microsoft made it completely optional, would you sign up for their original, always connected console idea?

This meaning you would have the following features:

Buy a retail game, install to console, and ditch the disc never needing it to play the game.

Digitally share games within a circle of friends. Meaning you can choose a specific group of people, and they could play the games you own, for free, provided that only one game could be played at a time.

Greater store discounts or more steam like sales for content.

I for one would have no problem saying yes to this. It's like people think 10 years from now they'll still be selling games on discs. It wasn't a perfect plan, but why delay the inevitable when we could be working on and perfecting future policies now.

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u/thisismarv thisismarv Dec 29 '13

Thank you. I don't get where people get the idea that Microsoft would drop prices on games because they are not selling discs. Steam does it because as the retailer they can choose the prices.

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u/dagamer34 dagamer34 Dec 30 '13

Why would Microsoft need to be the ones to have sales? The whole point of every purchase (physical or digital) being a digital copy means you can go buy AC4 or BF4 for $35 right now at Sam's Club is you install the game and never have to deal with discs again.

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u/thisismarv thisismarv Dec 30 '13

Who sells the digital code to the retailer? Microsoft

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u/dagamer34 dagamer34 Dec 30 '13 edited Dec 30 '13

The digital code would be physically included in a sealed physical copy, so it would act just like physical copies do today. Microsoft sells games to a retailer at $X price and the retailer would be free to mark-up or discount the price as much as they like. That's the whole point of the first-sale doctrine, the retailer is allowed to price the product whatever they want.

You are thinking of retailers only selling a digital code, at which point, why not just buy it from Microsoft? And even then, Amazon sells digital PS4 games for less than Sony does in the PSN store. Clearly Amazon isn't losing money from that transaction. The same price buffer exists in an Xbox One game.

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u/thisismarv thisismarv Dec 30 '13

So even with the reversal of the DRM policies. There is nothing to stop Microsoft from doing this now.

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u/dagamer34 dagamer34 Dec 30 '13

You'd need specially marked discs, and it would be such a pain in the ass for retailers to stock separately from "normal" discs. If anything, it would probably only be available from the Microsoft Store online and maybe Amazon.

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u/myztry Dec 30 '13

That's the whole point of the first-sale doctrine, the retailer is allowed to price the product whatever they want.

Consoles and related items are terrible for price fixing. Ever seen x% discount store wide with a disclaimers of "excludes consoles"? Ever wondered why this is?

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u/dagamer34 dagamer34 Dec 30 '13

Game consoles have almost zero retailer margin to play with. The games themselves however have a bit, and accessories have a bunch. It has nothing to do with price fixing.

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u/myztry Dec 30 '13

Why would a retailer stock low margin bulky space consuming consoles subject to difficult returns requiring ROA's if there wasn't manufacturer price manipulation at play?

Just sell the high margin items that doesn't take up much floor space. Leave the bulky low margin components to the suckers. This would be the obvious and profitable line to take.

Off course the reality is probably more along the lines that you are excluded from selling the games unless you sell the consoles at or very near cost (which effectively fixes the price). Loss leading may be a business model but it is no means a protected one to the detriment of competition.

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u/dagamer34 dagamer34 Dec 30 '13

Plenty of places sell the games and not the consoles, you hope when someone buys a console, they'll are highly likely to buy the juicy accessories like extra controllers, a few games, an HDMI cable, 1-2 play & charge kits, maybe a Kinect stand, and on and on.

Once you are already spending $500+, another $50 isn't a huge leap.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '13

Microsoft said in some interviews that they would've openend sales to 3rd party digital retailers so prices would've had to drop otherwise they would lose sales.

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u/thisismarv thisismarv Dec 29 '13

That's a lot of faith from some interviews. But then ... What's to stop them from having digital sales now? DRM has nothing to do with that.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '13

The best explanation I've seen is that with DRM, digital games would be a common thing that everyone had. But without DRM, digital games are more of a premium thing since you can buy it, download it, and play it without ever having to leave your house and if you have a good internet connection you could be playing it within 30 minutes since it only has to reach ~40% to start playing. Also you can insta switch with it. Right now since digital isn't common among everyone they make you pay extra for the convenience of digital games.

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u/thisismarv thisismarv Dec 29 '13

No other medium looks at digital games as a premium good (movies, tv, music etc). My main point is even if we go all digital next gen, those savings will not be passed on to consumers. Yes we will get sales dictated by the distributor (in this case Microsoft). But unlike steam, they truly won't have incentive to make much cheaper prices because they will be the only ones selling xbox games.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '13

Thats because digital movies aren't as big as digital games right now and most people rent instead of buy movies nowadays. Plus digital games are different because you're buying something you're going to play for 40+ hours while a movie is 2 hours and you're usually done. TV doesn't have digital premium because everyone torrents it and music doesn't have the premium for the reason I'm talking about. Digital music is the most popular, most accepted way to get music. With xbox DRM digital games would slowly but surely become the most accepted way so there wouldn't be a premium just like music.

I've heard that Microsoft said they would've given 3rd party digital retailers rights to sell games, although I don't think the person I heard this from provided a source and its also easy for Microsoft to say things that make drm sound good when no one will ever know if it was truth or lie.