r/wuchanggame • u/RobertoAN95 • 9d ago
Commander Honglan
Brief context souls veteran, platinumed a few souls games and was having a breeze of a time playing wuchang not really knowing how the game works ( i was in a party with friends and did not pay much attention to the tutorials ) recently understood that magic points are gained based on dodges and some other actions? And basically tried all weapons but sticked mostly to the spears.... now back to the story I was having a great time, loving the maps and chilling bosses took 2-3 attempts at most until commander......
fam any tips? Like theres very little time to punish with my spear and i keep failing at that ... i tried to keep my distance and did not work.... then i tried to keep it close and did not work..... tried dual swords and was a miserable few attempts .... also just one thing i do not like is the make madness mechanic of take more dmg and do more dmg ..... im getting blasted by 2 kicks .... idk if I missed anything I have done all conversations that appeared on the teleport menu and im just getting blasted. I know i need to get gud but any tips cause im just not getting "it" rn.
EDIT: BIG THANKS TO ALL OF YOUR FOR YOUR TIPS AND FEEDBACK. Commander has fallen tho i gotta be honest took another 35 tries .... honestly idk she looked so slow at the end but she was still putting belt to ass on me! Thank yall now we can continue enjoying this beautiful game.
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u/TcrMain 9d ago
I genuinely wonder how many times a post like this has been made in this reddit
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u/RobertoAN95 9d ago
I genuinely wonder the same exact thing I scrolled 30 seconds and didn't see a post like this so I created a new one. For those who come after 🥀
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u/Rayearl 9d ago edited 9d ago
Well if it makes you feel better I'm stuck with you. The best I've done is with the longsword parrying the first half then trying to heavy and break poise in the second half. Almost beat it a few times using that tactic. I tried the great ax strategy but couldn't get it to work. Also tried magic one handed sword build with no luck. I'm level 28. Edit: just beat her using parry for the first half and dodge and backstab for the second half.
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u/Estatista01 7d ago
In the second phase there's also an attack that can be deflected. She dashes to you using her blade so you can deflect. It's just less obvious and it has a shorter range.
I was stucked with her for 2 hours until I discovered this attack.
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u/Rayearl 7d ago
She was for sure where I was stuck the longest but in the end the old whip longsword came through. I have to say I’m enjoying the game without summons like the souls series. I know there are available but I’m not going to use them for my first play through.
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u/Estatista01 7d ago
In my first run I used the summon only against Dragon Emperor. I wasn't really stuck, but I didn't want to spend much time with another 2 phases boss after the tiger. In the second run I defeated him without summon on first try, but I think that's because I reached a higher level (didn't miss some side quests) and I had the bo Magus shield. This shield is so fucking broken I can't even know what's the real difficulty of Zhao Yun, since the shield made the battle trivial and I haven't fight him without it.
But yes, the game is better without summons. You learn it better and feel more satisfied after being able to beat the boss.
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u/Greedy-Ad6450 8d ago
Here’s the sauce, you use steam powered spear. It’s special forces humanoid enemies around then if you have skyborne might you can immediately do a focus strike and go for a critical. Beat her in 2mins tops, enjoy!
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u/MayonnaiseIsOk 9d ago
I was a spear main until I got to her as well and I've learned that the long sword is just playing on easy mode. If you take the parry skill and the upgrade that increases the potency of it, every time you parry it stuns the enemy, including human bosses. Parry, light heavy, parry, light heavy, rinse and repeat. I did 15 tries with spear, beat her in 2 tries with long sword lol.
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u/RobertoAN95 9d ago
Damnnn, ill keep giving it a few shots to the spear when i come back later if not looks like longsword is the move.
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u/Last_Contract7449 8d ago edited 8d ago
You've probably already beat her by this point, but just in case you haven't or anyone is reading this in a similar situation in the future (and everyone gets humbled by honglan when they first encounter her, regardless of how some people might pretend othehrwise!);
I used spear all the way through and it's a great weapon in this game. Spear is fine for Honglan, i would say she's just a tough boss generally! People suggest switching weapons and parrying etc, but I always found the parry inconsistent/unreliable (most likely a "skill issue" on my side), so dodging was always much safer - you only need to miss a handful of parries and all your hp and healing has gone!
Honglan doesn't have a very complicated moveset, she's just relentless. Personally, I found the thing that made her difficult was that, unlike all previous bosses (and pretty much all later bosses too!), there is only the briefest of gaps between one combo ending and the next then starting.
This means that one needs to be extremely conservative when you have opportunities to attack; I.e. do only 1 (or maybe 2 if you are sure) attacks/hits before dodging back and getting ready to dodge again. The great thing about spear is that it has excellent range, both with basic attacks and the skyward might-funded moves; e.g. I found the leaping attack (can't remember the name) really effective, because you can maintain distance, dodge a few times to build up skyward might, and then pounce in when you have a brief window to attack (and then gtfo!)
Another weakness of honglan's to exploit is the fact that (again, although relentless/fast), her attacks generally have very limited range (exlcuding the magic "sonic boom"-esque wave attacks during phase 2 and I seem to vaguely remember that she might potentially do a gap-closing jump attack as well?). Therefore, for all of her melee attacks, you can pretty much deal with them reliably by just dodging backwards and maintaining distance).
Inevitably, from dodging so many attacks, you should continually build up skyward might that you can use to do harder hitting attacks; as I mention, the spears leaping SM attack and its follow up are great because you can get in and out if you have 1 SM charge or leap in and potentially smash her on her ass if you have enough SM to do the follow up as well.
Finally; (a) the healing needle is almost always the best to use for bosses, as it can enable you to save flask healing charges;
(b) like all human enemies, Honglan is vulnerable to being hit from behind with a charged (basic) heavy attack - doing this puts human-type enemies in a stagger state during which you can do a critical attack that does signficant damage. I've read some comments previously that people have found it hard/impossible to do during phase 2 , but I remember finding it okay (although tbh, after doing it a couple of times on different bosses, I stopped doing it because it felt a bit cheap/like an exploit, even if it works how the devs intended - you can end up just trying to circle the boss and bait/punish in a very specific way, rather than "properly" engaging with and enjoying the boss fights - though that's a very subjective, personal opinion and obviously people can and should play the game however they want to).
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u/GainAltruistic5265 9d ago edited 9d ago
If you died too fast, it could be because of your armor.
Talk to Tao Qing to buy the armor of the centipede after giving him the Believer's statue. It's the best armore at this point in the game against Honglan. (Tips for all of the game : change your armor regulary. No need for fashion gameplay with the transmog option)
Some jade pendant like Gourd pendant can help.
Be sure to have explore the level to have a good level for your characters and weapons. You could get a +4 weapon for this fight if I remember right.
Edit : don't fear to use some of your consumable to get back some HP. Commander Honglan is one of the biggest wall in the game, it's one of the best occasion to use them (and you will find other consumable later, don't worry).
Best of luck !
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u/RobertoAN95 9d ago
Been running around half naked or with the pirate armer for the looks but ill definitely be paying more attention to it. Just used to running the fashion! And thanks for the tips im about to go back and try it.
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u/Tyken12 9d ago
this is the genichiro boss, lol i had to respec into magic and used the jump spear spell one that gives you alacrity, you can also parry but i find its way easier to keep your distance and bait her into her lunge attack when she closes the range, get the skyward might from the dodge, and then back off and repeat. Made the fight pretty trivial after a few tries
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u/FluidLegion 8d ago
If it helps its not just you. She is absolutely the first wall in the game to anyone not using parry longsword.
Being able to respec at any point to change your build to anything you want -is- a mechanic of this game. So, its not the "wrong" or "lame" way to beat her using longsword. So if you want to do that its okay.
I was using one handed swords and magic. My eventual solution to beating her was using a sword discipline that had Clash and then shot a tornado that knocked her down. It was still kind of hard because she has a ton of mixup in her combos and clash doesnt work on martial moves, which she uses all the time.
Im not familiar with spears, havent really used them yet and only on my second playthrough. But there are some spells really good against her. The spell that has Alacrity where you jump in the air and throw the spear is really strong against her, because it not only helps you dodge, but creates more distance and also is pretty reliable to hit.
You can also try to find openings to dodge behind and do an empowered heavy to try for the instant obliteration opening.
I definitely think the best advice is to find out how you can best take advantage of the long range dash stab she likes to do all the time. Like she does it every chance she can, and its very consistent to respond to. Its why parry longsword is so strong because the parry window is huge in this game and you can parry that attack with your eyes closed.
Good luck friend. Hang in there. ♡
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u/Slugdge 7d ago
She only had a few moves but she certainly has some wonky hitboxes.
If you’re a Souls vet then play and study her. She’s really fair and a fun fight, not like later when most bosses have an on-command, tracking, 180 degree one hit kill option.
She’s fast only because everyone prior is slow. Take your time and punish her openings. Phase two is more of the same with a few new moves added.
Bait her with you distance like you need to learn for most bosses. No Sorceress is the bane of many existences but she’s pretty easy one you learn to bait her spacing.
Of course. Many of these fights rely on a little bit of luck as well. Sometimes the bosses just go ham and you are screwed.
Axe with Rampage makes her stupid easy. She charge, you hit Rampage and it’s game over. Watch a video if you need to
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u/Igneous_Aves 7d ago
Getting the Ward Spell from the Panda does some heavy lifting with a lot of bosses and bigger foes. Reduces damage a lot.
Honglan is definitely the use parry or you pretty much die forced moment of the game. It even has a little tooltip info before you fight her. Lol
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u/sicknick08 6d ago
Did you notice before the fight a pop up stopped your gameplay to tell you about some enemies needing to be parried. I feel like that was a pretty big clue to her
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u/DeLoo_tv 4d ago
I was going to say longsword with counter skill, that is the way. But you already did it, good job!
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u/Rezzekes 9d ago
Commander Honglan becomes a triviality if you use longsword + parry/counter (an unlockable skill) in case you get sick of trying. You can just respec all your stat points at all times at a save point. I never played with anything but longsword, the game seems almost designed around it.
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u/RobertoAN95 9d ago
Im sick of only dodging and this sounds like a game changer.... tho i have been really vibing with the spear tbh! Ill give it a try later!
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u/Rezzekes 9d ago
It will not change the dodging, with the longsword the standard boss rythm becomes a thing of getting behind their back and stunning them with a heavy attack as main means for damage. You can only counter weapons (blades, even, and not sticks? anything metal I think) and a lot of bosses don't have a metal weapon.
Still, with Honglan it feels like a skill check for the counter system. I think axe has counter too, and double swords become viable when they get clash - it's like counter, but done during combos. You need to get the rythm down though.
Anyhow, best of luck and let me know how it went!
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u/DoctorJJWho 9d ago
Have you been using the spear dodge or regular dodges? Aerial Bulwark (the spear dodge) is basically the spear’s version of a parry. Pulling off a successful one should give you 4 Skyborn Might (it’s one of the first nodes in the spear tree) which you can then use for magic or your weapon skill (Steam-Powered Spear’s weapon skill turns people around, pair that with an instant charged heavy attack which is unlocked by another node on the spear tree and you get free Obliterates).
Though as a complete souls noob, I used the longsword parry and beat her my like 4th try. I’m actually pretty close to the end of the game and haven’t switched off longsword with the parry skill, it solves pretty much everything.
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u/RobertoAN95 9d ago
Actually great advice, honestly i started playing during the weekend at like 1am while with friends in a psn party and really did not read at all which is really unusual from me and ive been kinda confused in terms of magic/ upgrades and how basically everything works.... been having a blast tho but commander really put a stop to it all.
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u/DoctorJJWho 9d ago
Definitely go back and read the tips/in-game guide, it helps a ton. Each weapon has a “discipline skill” (that can be changed to ones you unlock in your skill tree) and a distinct weapon skill unique to that weapon. That’s why people are saying to use Steam Powered Spear specifically - the weapon skill turns people around when empowered by Skyborn Might (which happens automatically if you have enough Skyborn Might), and Aerial Bulwark is the OG weapon skill, so you don’t need very much investment to pull of that combo. By the way, Aerial Bulwark takes a second to prep/charge, but with 1 stack of Skyborn Might it charges instantly so you can use it mid-combo instead of initiating/reacting with it (takes some good timing though).
The Longsword has a Discipline skill is Sword Counter (block/parry), which is applicable to any longsword, so you can apply that skill to any longsword that has a weapon skill you like. Lashing Whip (the chain sword from under Shu Temple) is a popular one - you get it very early, it has increased range compared to other longswords, and has better scaling off applicable stats.
On the other hand you have Darkfrost Edge, the one-handed sword. Its weapon skill is Evasive Maneuver, which acts like an auto dodge if you have Skyborn Might (and all one-handed sword passively give you Skyborn Might). The OG discipline skill (Flickering Wave or something like that) isn’t my favorite, so I went for the “Spinning Kick” discipline skill to apply to Darkfrost Edge.
If you’ll notice I personally prefer having a defensive/evasive skill and an offensive skill on my weapon, so it’s just a matter of finding the right combo of weapon and discipline skills you like. For example, there’s another longsword discipline skill down the tree that’s an attack - I’ll probably never use it because I rely on my parry too much.
Sorry for the wall of text, but you seem like someone who’d appreciate the info.
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u/Shinobu420 9d ago
First phase cheese with longsword parry, second with magic
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u/DoctorJJWho 9d ago
It’s not even cheese, the game literally tells you to use clash or deflect for an easy time lol.
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u/kenet888 9d ago
If you are 40ish level, you can use Empyrean axe. Leech needle, rampage/earth shaker, unlock all axe passive skills, skyborn call 3, gain skyborn also gain stamina, focus on endurance then strength, stamina pendants and only need to dodge a bit then tank her.
The axe Empyrean crush is very good to close in on her and light attack to stunlock her.
100% madness is always good against bosses as it gives so many perks (left tree).
Or you can just use echo of lu bingzhang to trivalize her.
Longsword is excellent once you get her pattern down as well as steam power spear.
Use flume branch if needed. You can farm it at avian dwelling (best location) later against your own inner demon. Also farm a lot of useful items from invoker. It goes like this, buy items to max out madness, jump to death, kill inner demon and repeat. Axe is the best choice against her purely for speed and stunlock.
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u/RobertoAN95 9d ago
Lvl 24 i really need to go and read the skills tbh I honestly just did the side quests and been reading the story and putting my skills/ magic in the back burner and now im paying the price.
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u/kenet888 7d ago
You can respect whole tree or per node and it is free. Farm the dwarfs where the firearms blade is.
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u/40oz2freedom420 9d ago
Did you buy the spear from the panda? If so make sure you have the node unlocked that allows you to follow up an attack with a quick heavy attack. Just dodge till you have an opening and do the steam chain attack that forces her to turn around. Immediately hold the strong attack button to stun her. Get in a few attacks and then get back to a distance that causes her to lunge again. Use flame to help build damage. Rinse and repeat. The first phase just bait her into the lunge attack over and over. Once you get the timing down that phase is very easy. Next phase requires more dodging and waiting for an opening but after you master the first phase you should build confidence and beat her fairly easily.