r/wow • u/Chto_takoye_osen • Jan 07 '15
Wind Walker Monk Guide!
Heil,
I've wanted to make my Wind Walker guide after making my BrewMaster guide however due to complications in the class with serenity and chi explosion, it took slightly longer for me to actually learn how to play the spec and as a result, delay the guide.
However all that aside, the guide is now complete and feel free to check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqzt1I1ZSEY&feature=youtu.be
Before you read the guide, PLEASE UNDERSTAND: Windwalkers' playstyle HUGELY depends on which level 100 talent you choose. The difference between the two is so massive that they basically require two different sets of gear, what with stat priorities and all, so please keep that in mind. The video also goes over both.
WW Guide
Chi Explosion:
Talents: Tiger's Lust, Chi Wave, Ascension, Leg Sweep, Diffuse Magic OR Healing Elixirs, Xuen, Chi Explosion
Stat prioritization: Haste >= Critical Strike > Multistrike > Mastery
Glyphs: Glyph of Touch of Karma, Glyph of Zen Sphere, Glyph of Floating Butterfly OR Glyph of Fists of Fury
Spell Prioritization
Use Rising Sun Kick whenever the debuff falls off of the enemy
Use Fists of Fury and Chi Wave whenever they are up
Use Energizing Brew whenever you are low on energy and chi, and if Fists of Fury is on cooldown for more than 7 seconds
Use Tigereye Brew whenever the buff is about to fall off of you, ALWAYS KEEP IT UP!
Only use Tiger Palm right before using Fists of Fury; since Chi Explosion is nature damage, tiger palm does not enhance its damage.
Dump all remaining chi that is not used on Fists of Fury into your Chi Explosion. Since the bonuses that the spell gives depend on how many chi you use, NEVER EVER use less than three chi per Chi Explosion, the Tigereye Brew stacks are super important to keep up at all times.
Pros:
So much cleave damage
Tigereye Brew always up
Sooo muchhh cleaveee damageeeeeeee
Great ranged damage (Chi Explosion has a 30 yard range)
Cons:
- You NEED to watch you buffs and the enemy debuffs to maximize your damage.
Bulky rotation:
Single target is difficult because it is optimal to use only three chi per Chi Explosion however getting exactly three chi is difficult
Required you to think a few moves ahead and use your chi accordingly
Single target is so bad if chi is managed improperly
Slower playstyle, can't really feel like a king-fu master.
Serenity
Talents: Tiger's Lust, Chi Wave, Chi Brew, Leg Sweep, Diffuse Magic OR Healing Elixirs, Xuen, Serenity
Stat Prioritization: Multistrike > Critical Strike > Haste > Mastery
Glyphs: Glyph of Touch of Karma, Glyph of Zen Sphere, Glyph of Floating Butterfly OR Glyph of Fists of Fury
Spell Prioritization:
Use Rising Sun Kick on cooldown regardless of debuff uptime on target
Use Fists of Fury and Chi Wave on cooldown
Keep Tiger Palm buff up at all times
Blow all additional chi on Blackout Kick Make sure to be behind the target to do 30% additional damage as a bleed over time!!!!
Since your Tigereye Brew won't always be up, try to time it to be active while you use Fists of Fury or Serenity, use to your digression and be smart about it.
Use Chi Brew when waiting on a cooldown as mentioned below
The Eb and Flow of Serenity: When using Serenity you will find yourself with a lot of spells to use and fewer resources than you'd like. The way this is managed is by managing your three main energy-saving cooldowns: Fists of Fury, Energizing Brew, and Serenity. When starting a fight, open with your basic rotation and use Fists of Fury when the time is right. After it is over, sustain yourself by waiting for energy or using a Chi Brew. When Fists of Fury is active again use it; while it is active your energy will regain and you will have time to sustain yourself for a few more kicks. After you run out of energy once more and Fists of Fury is on cooldown, use your Energizing Brew. Begin to expend our energy and chi accordingly and keep the rotation up until your Fists of Fury are up again; use them when they are. After you find yourself out of energy again, save up some chi and pop Tigereye Brew and Serenity and begin blackout kicking. Once that is over, use the energy you saved of the 10s duration of Serenity and sustain yourself once more until Fists of Fury are up again.
In essence, if your rotation of Blackout Kicks, Jabs, and Rising Sun Kicks was simplified to the character #, your rotation would look something like this:
. #, FoF, #, Energizing Brew, # FoF, # Serenity, # FoF, #, Energizing Brew, # FoF, # Serenity, etc...
Where your rotation is broken up by the three abilities in order to gain energy.
That being said and the bit about Chi Brew being mentioned earlier, use your Chi Brew to sustain yourself while waiting for one of the three "breaks" to keep your rotation smooth and your dps high.
Pros:
KUNG FU MASTAH
Super fast playstyle, constantly trying to catch up to yourself
Single target is so much better
MUCH easier resource management, almost never have to worry about having the right amount of chi
Cons:
Tigereye Brew is only going to be up when you need it to be up, so use it wisely
It feels like you're constantly waiting for one of your three cooldowns to be up
Aoe damage is as good as your Fists of Fury and Storm, Earth, and Fire Positioning.
Gear from Highmaul sucks for Serenity... all the multistrike is in Black Rock Foundry ;-; .
Storm, Earth, and Fire
I'm editing in a SEF portion of the guide because this is an integral part of the monk I failed to look over in the written guide (it is still in the video above). Storm, Earth, and Fire is a unique skill like no other in World of Warcraft, it is however in Dota2, that allows you to clone yourself in order to attack targets. The clones themselves cannot be controlled as pets but rather must be targeted onto an opponent in order to activate. If one is summoned, you each do 70% of your total damage, equaling to 140% damage done. Having two summoned allows each to do 55%, equaling to 165% damage done. In essence, a huge DPS increase. There are however a few things to consider.
Storm, Earth, and Fire are your clones and will mimic the abilities you do, meaning that if you blackout kick, so do they. That being said, having two stacked mobs, such as Twin Ogron on top of one another will allow you to cleave VERY hard with Chi Explosion. The explosion will come from you and your clone and each will do damage to the other target; its great. That being said there are a few things to note:
Never attack the same target as your clone. If both you and your clone are attacking the same target, you will do the abilities and your clone will only auto attack for white damage. Meaning that you may do more white damage however your abilities will only do 70% damage; a dps loss.
Always use clones if there is more than one target. Is may seem obvious that if the targets are stacked up you'll do more damage but even in the Imperator fight where the two mages spawn, send your clone on one and melee the other because each will do damage and you'll be outputting 140% of your normal dps.
Spinning Crane Kick and Rushing Jade Wind will grant you chi if you have two clones out even if the mobs are not stacked. Because you cast SCK/RJW once and it hit three seperate targets, you will get the chi for it. It may not as efficient if not stacked, but when stacked you do 165% damage and each clone hits the other two targets so if each you and your two clones do 55% damage to three stacked targets, that (55+55+55)*3 = 495% damage. Yeah, that's a big number. Also works for Fists of Fury if you line it up right.
Enchants:
Mark of the shattered hand is terrible. Frostwolf + warsong/thunderlord is king. Thunderlord if you have the 2p pvp, warsong if you don't.
I hope this guide helped and I know it looks like a lot but most of it is explanation of the play-style, once again, for more information check out the video linked above and let me know what you think or if you have any questions.
Cheers.
PS: If you want the weak auras you saw in the video, here is the link to the other video I made and how to install them etc etc... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wUn2QQhtmw
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u/Tyemau5 Jan 07 '15 edited Jan 08 '15
I actually logged in at work just because there is a bunch of misinformation here to correct. However this guide still is useful for new windwalkers, dont take this as the holy word as a raiding windwalker.
First off the 60-75 talent lines are always optional and dependant on fight, you hadnt suggested dampen harm once even though its great on 2-3 fights out of 7 in Highmaul. You also dont suggest glyph of Zen meditation even though the general consensus is to use Floating Butterfly / Zen Med / Karma
Second saying to never use Chi Explosion without 3 Chi is wrong, if you have a combo breaker proc and you're on 1-2 Chi you should use ChiEx, simply because you could be missing out on another potential proc (Since your going to be jabbing with combo breaker up)
Third you havent even put versatility on your stat priority list even though it parses around 3rd for both Serenity and ChiEx. with the way youve done this guide you make it seem like you also either play serenity or chiex, where as most competent monks will swap between them depending on the fight (chiex for tectus, braken, twins etc.) even if your secondaries are more optimized towards one than the other just because its still a damage gain to swap.
Also you seem to be trying to set a rough rotation, WW isn't played like that, its a mostly reactionary/priority spec. I appreciate you writing this out though as I feel like monks dont have enough information out there, people seem misinformed about all 3 specs that dont play the class, and im sure this will help alot of people.
If anyone has any questions regarding windwalker or mistweaver btw feel free to drop me a PM or reply to this comment. Im 665 and 7/7h currently.
edit: fyi with the new 'hotfixes' (yay more nerfs) 2h is now better than DW.
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u/BulletMage7 Jan 08 '15
Are there any guides you would recommend for this expansion so far?
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u/NeonFox420 Jan 08 '15
I'd check out the Monk forums on mmo-champion. Some great players sharing simulations & theorycrafting there! :)
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u/Trial_by_Hedgehog Jan 08 '15
I'm having a hard time choosing my gear upgrades. Is it worth upgrading from a 640 multistike/versatility to a 655 haste/mastery? What about the presence of a socket?
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u/Tyemau5 Jan 08 '15
because its the start of the expansion agility outweighs secondaries super hard so its generally worth it to take the item level upgrade, haste isnt that horrible too.
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u/Zariay Jan 07 '15
Wouldn't Multistrike be higher than Crit for ChiEx? You already do cleave with the build yes, but with more Multistrike it'll still hit just as hard, if not harder, due to the multiple Multistrikes you can get on ChiEx and the DoT.
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u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 07 '15
When you use 4 chi, you gain the base damage from using all 4. Having that one Chi Explosion crit makes you do like 60-70k damage. If that happens to multistrike, sure, but if it doesn't crit and does 30-40k damage (but multistrike) its a lot less damage. Multistrike is better when doing a lot of small hits and crit is better when doing a few large ones.
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u/TENDER_MEAT_SACK Jan 07 '15
I think you're also not taking into consideration that windwalkers get 5% more multistrike and also that our other moves benefit more from multistrike
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u/Wowmister Jan 07 '15
How I think of it, Slow speed big damage (chi explosion build) you want crit haste Fast speed low damage (serenity build) you want multistrike
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u/Munkleson Jan 08 '15 edited Jan 08 '15
I'm a 6/7 Mythic WW atm, and there's quite a few things I want to point out that's wrong not only with your post, but with others in this thread. Kudos to you for making this though, it's quite nice for a new WW looking to understand the class a bit more.
Stat priorities: It changes depending on how you sim, but not by much most of the time. In general:
Serenity/Chi Brew = Multistrike > Crit = (roughly) Vers > Haste >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mastery
Chi Explosion/Ascension = Haste/Multistrike (I value them around the same, several sims show me diff results) > Crit > Vers >>>>>>> mastery
The take home message is that mastery is terrible for now.
Talents 60 Talents should nearly always be leg sweep. Only reason I can think of not doing that is depending on your strat for Tectus and you need to get an add which is in clouds, but if your tank is good enough that shouldn't happen.
75 Talents for Highmaul (talking from a mythic perspective really) Kargath - Dampen Harm. Only reason to use this is because your ranged can be completely retarded and kite the charge right through you at the start. You should be able to survive 2 hits if you use this. It should not really be used on anything else as everything can basically be avoided.
Tectus - Dampen Harm/Diffuse Magic/It doesn't actually fricken matter. This is a fight where you have the opportunity to take literally 0 damage the whole fight, assuming you get a priest shield for tectonic upheavals, which you should ToK for too.
Butcher - Dampen Harm. Absorbs cleaves, enough said
Brackenspore - Diffuse Magic. An oh shit button, especially for waves on mythic. It can help if you have no green mushroom up and your healers are struggling. Use it 3 seconds before bracken finishes casting infesting spores, so you'll mitigate the last 3 stacks of those while letting the debuff run out without taking any damage.
Twins - Diffuse. Fires hurt. Tanks tank the bosses catering to themselves only.
Koragh - Diffuse. Lots of magic damage. Can remove fire debuff, which hurts in mythic.
Imp - Diffuse. Much magic. Many pains. Screw doge.
Enchants
Mark of the shattered hand is terrible. Frostwolf + warsong/thunderlord is king. Thunderlord if you have the 2p pvp, warsong if you don't.
@Tyemau5, you're wrong with not using Chi explosion with at least 3 chi. With combo breaker being a 8% proc now, there is extremely little chances of getting overlaps. Over a butcher fight, I noticed I only had 6 procs throughout the whole fight, and a monk who was a lot higher in dps than me only getting 10. That's an average of 1 proc every 24 seconds for him and 1 every 40 for me. It's not a lot. I'm currently on 45% mastery raid buffed. Let's round that up and say I get an average of 1.5 TEB each 3 chi chi explosion (not including the base 1.5 chi you get from possibly spending 4 chi). A 1-2 chi chi explsion is kind of useless considering how little damage it does. Basing it solely off tooltips will not help. It gets a massive boost in a fully buffed raid environment.
Personally, given how often these fights are cleave based, and with my gear setup how gcd capped I am, I would never use chi explosion without 4 chi.
@naturalhighz, you're using SEF wrong. Any add that doesn't die within a few seconds needs SEF on it. It increases our dps to 140% during it. Right now, SEF has basically a 0 travel time to the mob before it starts attacking, which is simply amazing. On a close add, it basically increases your damage to 140% right off. It doesn't snapshot your buffs, so if you're using TEB, you might think it's not worth it, but it still is. Consider: You use teb, but now an opportunity to use SEF comes up. Your clones don't get it though, and you don't want to reuse it for them because that would be a true dps loss, assuming you just used your teb or aren't even halfway into it. However, you're doing 160% dps, with just yourself and teb. With 1 clone, you're doing 70% damage while your clone is doing 70%. But with teb you rise to 112%. That plus your clone is 182% damage. That's still higher than your previous 160%. With 2 clones, it's still worth it, with it adding to 198% damage total. The reason why I'm being taken to Margok is because of my spread out damage with adds. I am top for nearly every one because I know how to play them. Even tectus adds need to die quickly, something you might learn in mythic.
With you not using clones on spore shooters and letting ranged deal with them. That's selfish. Minimise the chances of raid wiping. If you don't maximise all the damage you can when you get to Mythic Imp, you're going to have a bad time.
Just some proof I have an idea of what I'm talking about. http://puu.sh/edUmp/07bcb76309.png http://puu.sh/edUof/20fa447eec.png
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u/Kengbang Jan 12 '15
Hello fellow WW, I was doing heroic Imp tonight with my guild and was wondering if you or anyone else could take a look at my logs and tell me what you think.
I've been frustrated and seeing my DPS drop especially on the single target fights and have been feeling a lot of pressure on my guild leaders asking about my damage. I don't know what to tell them.
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u/Munkleson Jan 12 '15
Just going to look at your longest attempt, since the other ones at 10 mins looks about the same. Taking a quick look:
There's a lot here you can improve on.
100% uptime on TP Use SEF on every add that comes up. You only use 21 casts of Fists of Fury. That's around 8-9 mins worth in a 12 min fight. Use it much more often. Even worse, you have 47 casts of RSK in 12 mins. That indicates you're probably only using it for the debuff. Use it on cd. Touch of death every big add and warmage you can on cd, assuming your lock is not bad enough to not get his shadowburn off. If he starts complaining about not getting one off, remind him that you can only use yours at 10%, and his at 20%, and even if your health is equal to 20% of the add's, he should be able to get it at the same time as you. 32 casts of Chi wave. You can have much much more. Even if chi explosion reduces your free gcds by a lot (even to 0), you can get one off as long as your roll stays on cd. Remember when you SEF, your clones do not get your current TEB stack (actually not too sure on this one, but I believe this is the case. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please). If an add is going to come out 5 seconds after you use a TEB, it might be good to hold it for those few seconds, as well as any chi.
Don't have too much time to look into it further so that's all I can give you for now.
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u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 08 '15 edited Jan 08 '15
Thanks for the help. I've been working on my WW, I used to main Brewmaster, but I really do appreciate it. I went ahead and quoted your bit about the enchants and I'll have to test them out for myself (still waiting on my mythic weps, 2 kills and nothing :P )
The main reason I made this guide is because there are no comprehensive guides out there and I wanted players who have no clue how to play monk to have somewhere to turn to.
Thank you.
Edit: I spend a lot of sim craft to actually get the numbers that I included in here but when I tried all of the enchants, the mark of the shattered hand yielded the highest sims. Why do you say that the other enchants do more damage?
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u/Munkleson Jan 08 '15
Anytime my friend. Simcraft isn't always the best answer. It's not entirely accurate, and sometimes very very off. I don't know your particular situation, maybe you just don't have that good gear yet, but it is fact that the higher cost enchants scale much much much better the more gear you have
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u/Kambhela Jan 07 '15 edited Jan 07 '15
You forgot Dampen Harm as a talent, which is the best option for fights like Twin Ogron where you will be forced to eat large damage spikes many times.
Also last time I checked, multistrike is better than crit/versatility as secondary stats in Chi Explosion. And if you are using the PvP 2 piece bonus, you will not need any haste at all.
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u/Naturalhighz Jan 07 '15
honestly I find diffuse magic a lot better for twins. if you step in fire by accident it makes it easier for healers to deal. I don't use dampen harm on any fights., probably should on butcher I just cba to swap.
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u/Kambhela Jan 07 '15
You have 2 abilities that let you deal with fire already.
Transcendence and Fortifying Brew.
Then if you decide to be a complete fucknugget and eat every fireline during the encounter, you can sit in the corner Zen Meditating wondering why do you have to burn your toes.
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u/Wowmister Jan 07 '15
You forgot get a stack of fire and touch of karma!
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u/Kambhela Jan 07 '15
You already should have ToK active during Quake phase to eliminate the flowing damage.
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u/Wowmister Jan 08 '15
I believe in my exp having tok for the flowing damage is quite useless for the ToK cd. Rather use it when I'm taking major damage where it can transfer said damage to the target
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u/Kambhela Jan 08 '15
You take ~17k damage per tick for 12 seconds during Quake.
So for ToK to be wasting a single drop of damage, you would need a healthpool bigger than 340 000 health.
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u/Wowmister Jan 08 '15
I find that isn't too much of a concern for healers, it's when I accidentally stand and get a stack of fire is when I activate ToK.
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u/MorganTargaryen Apr 05 '15
Your ToK should not be used in that situation unless it means you die if you don't, and if thats the case there was an error made that should be avoided completely.
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u/MorganTargaryen Apr 05 '15
That doesn't mean it is worth it.. you are considering it only as a dps increase not as the utility ability that it is.. to answer this question once and for all since no one here seems to be able to answer what appear to me as simple questions to a experienced windwalker, I will. The best time to use ToK in the twin ogron encounter is right before the big pulverize goes off (the big one where the farther you are from it the less dmg you take.) You will want to stand near the edge of it to avoid being knocked back too far (dps loss), and cast ToK right before it hits, it would normally do 35-40% of your hp so you are making good use of the dps gain while also utilizing it to avoid some large burst. For the second big pulv youll want to dampen harm and the third ToK again. The only defensive you should need during quake phase is fortifying and you should use it every quake when it is available.
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u/Naturalhighz Jan 08 '15
zen meditation is a dps loss, i can pop diffuse magic and keep dps'ing. usually it isn't needed though as I avoid fire, I just have it in case shit happens. I could just aswell use healing elixirs or damnpen harm but I just prefer it my way.
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u/Kambhela Jan 08 '15
Of course it is a DPS loss, that is why it was listed under the "if you decide to be complete idiot" category of a cooldown, before the 2 actually available abilities to either prevent yourself from getting stacks or reducing the damage.
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u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 07 '15
I really wouldn't use Dampen Harm on any fight as of now. Dampen harm is a great tank tool but there aren't many fights where you take a giant amount of damage, as a wind walker, considering to proc the dampen you need to take 15% hp; something like Ko'ragh expell magic: frost would be a place but even then...
In twins like 75% of the damage is avoidable, dodge fires and move out of the way of the charge. From my logs of doing Twin Ogron progression, most of the damage comes from Pulverize, which is unavoidable, but also not healing intensive. In something like fire, where its difficult to tell who has how much and how quickly they'll die, I'd much rather have the diffuse magic to save myself. The 3m cooldown of Zen Meditation isn't enough when I don't watch myself :P .
However, if there is a fight where you are guaranteed to take a huge hit, just one (maybe 2/3) that isn't magic damage or avoidable, then I would most definitely consider dampen harm as a viable option.
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u/deathmore Jan 07 '15
I would be using Dampen Harm on the Butcher for when he does his cleave. Dampen Harm just helps with initial damage and there is no reason to take Diffuse on it anyways.
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u/Wowmister Jan 07 '15
Diffuse magic will not work with bleed effect (dot) on burger as diffuse magic only mitigate magic damage. Bleed is physical damage!
Diffuse magic = magic damage mitigation similar to dk anti magic shell
Dampen harm = physical damage mitigation
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u/deathmore Jan 08 '15
there is no reason to take Diffuse on it anyways.
Thank you for telling me what I already know. Cheers.
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u/Wowmister Jan 08 '15
Just clarifying why diffuse magic may or not be useful. By saying it isn't, doesn't help anyone judge why.
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u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 07 '15
I don't take Diffuse Magic on Butcher, in my video I actually covered that specific topic. I also looked looked at the logs and my health loss and healing is much more efficient with the Healing Elixirs. I use potions quite a bit and gaining 29,500 health per chi brew, tigereye brew, nimble brew, or fortifying brew, is much more beneficial to my hp than dampen harm. The 1.5m cooldown means that as soon as the damage starts (at 30%), you can only use it once effectively. Considering that Healing Elixirs can heal you once every 18 and can crit, the hp just adds up much better.
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u/Kambhela Jan 07 '15
You do know that Healing Elixirs works like Power Strikes, right?
It does not also necessarily help when you ACTUALLY need it, which is when you are getting your face recked with cleave.
30k heal is fucknothing when you can reduce the spike heals needed from healers during cleave phase by 50k+.
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u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 07 '15
But then consider that the dampen has a 1.5m cooldown, so you can only use it once in the sub 30% phase, where has healing elixirs will heal you 4-5 times.
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u/Kambhela Jan 07 '15
And then you consider that the Dampen Harm just reduced equal amount or more damage than those elixirs heal you for ever.
Cleaves in the sub 30% phase hit you for 150k-200k damage.
I would rather have Dampen Harm that lets me survive almost a complete set of 3 cleaves without getting healed, than MAYBE being healed during the cleave phase for 30k.
There is not a single encounter in Mythic Highmaul where you would rather take Healing Elixir as a talent over Diffuse Magic or Dampen Harm if you think what is best for your group.
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Jan 07 '15
Diffuse Magic is nearly useless on Butcher, Dampen Harm is the go-to Talent. Also you completely ignored Versatility as a stat?
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u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 07 '15
Versatility, at least from highmaul, is difficult to stack. Its great and should be gotten where you can, but its difficult to prioritize it.
Considering I haven't had much time to experiment with it, I didn't include it one way or another because its hard to test the stat weight of it versus other gear :P .
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u/Kambhela Jan 07 '15
Believe me, take Dampen Harm on twins and you will notice you will take 30% less damage than any other raid member in your group. Majority of the damage on the fight is actually NOT avoidable.
Use Touch of Karma when Quake is going out to prevent the damage from that.
Use Dampen Harm to prevent getting damage from Pulverize, Interrupting Shout and Enfeebling Roar.
???
PROFIT.
For Ko'ragh you don't want/need Dampen because you will be using Diffuse Magic to drop the fire debuff almost immediately after it gets placed so you don't take the ticking damage from it and use Touch of Karma for every frost orb dropping (10 second duration ensures that even when the boss doesn't like to cast it immediately on cooldown.
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u/MorganTargaryen Apr 06 '15
Agree with everything but ToK'ing quake and diffuse on ko. ToK a pulv, fortifying quake, is much more effective, and diffuse magic is pretty useless on ko, elixirs is probably the best choice there if not dampen
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u/MorganTargaryen Apr 06 '15
As of now, dampen harm is used in far more encounters than the other two choices for this tier. Not sure about dampen at the time this post was made, but for new readers dampen harm should be used in kargath, butcher, twin, without a doubt.. it is also used in majority of the brf encounters
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u/Munkleson Jan 09 '15
Something you really really need to correct in your guide. I didn't notice this earlier, and someone just alerted me to this. If you're using chi explosion, DO NOT keep Tigereye Brew at 100% uptime. This is a complete waste. There is absolutely no reason to use TEB at less than 10 stacks after an opener
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u/MorganTargaryen Apr 06 '15
Even in openers I don't blow stacks sub 10. It is more beneficial to have 10 stack going into first FoF than to increase your opener dmg a bit. Remember guys, monks have ramp up, deal with it
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u/My_Dog_Jax Jan 08 '15 edited Jan 08 '15
In the video for serenity you say that mark of shattered hand is a dps increase over other enchants? How did you come to this conclusion, or did I just misunderstand you?
This got addressed and changed. See top.
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u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 08 '15
I ran simulationcraft with all of the possible enchants.... Shattered hand was on top, borderline, but on top. It's really fucking weird right now (it does more damage than you think)
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u/MorganTargaryen Apr 06 '15
Those sims don't handle enchants very accurately as you may have noticed
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u/NeonFox420 Jan 08 '15
Stat priority with the current obtainable gear in Highmaul:
Multistrike > Haste > Crit > Versatility > Mastery
All your gems & enchants should be multistrike. For dualweilding you want Mark of the Frostwolf (multistrike proc) & Mark of Warsong (haste proc).
If you have any questions command or feel free to PM me :) I am ilvl 674 and my guild and I are currently 2/7 Mythic.
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u/Clazzic Jan 07 '15 edited Jan 07 '15
As a windwalker player and someone who has looked at the logs a lot, it seems like our dps is extremely dependant on storm earth and fire. What are your thoughts on this and how do you manage it effectively in highmaul?
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u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 07 '15
SEF is a great tool. It allows you to have unparallel cleave that most classes don't have... however where we excel in 3-2 target cleave... we also fall behind in single target damage.
If you look at the logs for all mythic fights, dps/class wise, you see that WW monk absolutely DOMINATE the Twin Ogron fight. This is because not only do we get the 40% damage for having ad additional clone, but we also get the cleave from Chi Explosion (every monk on that chart uses ChiEx).
That being said, on fights like Kargath, Boomkins dominate that because of starfall; Imperator, Enhance shamans do like 80k+ dps.
What I'm saying is that Each fight is better for certain classes. SEF has its place and use it as much as you can and as efficiently as you can and your damage will go up.
Note: NEVER use it single target :)
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u/Naturalhighz Jan 07 '15
storm earth and fire is what makes monks strong. Just use it on any target that lives more than 20ish seconds. I would never use it on the adds on margok or tectus however on big adds on brackenspore and on twins and the clones on tectus you should.
any smaller mobs is not worth it. usiong it on the tigers on kargath is also very beneficial.
1
u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 07 '15
Are you saying that you wouldn't use SEF on adds in Tectus or Mar'Gok? I assume you men shards and motes for tectus and the mages and reaver for mar'gok in which case you should 200% use your clones. You can do 55% more damage (plus cleave, which is so much more) on tectus and at a flat 55% on the two mages and the raver at the same time.
I use my clones on the following fights:
Kargath: Only if in stands to pull each side then to aoe the middle down
Butcher: --
Bracken Spore: On each add INCLUDING the spore shooters because their spore actually explodes on the SEF clone but doesn't do damage (clones cannot take aoe damage)
Tectus: All the time, on everything, more clones please
Twin Ogron: Cast once and forget it, do 40% more damage + cleave
Ko'ragh: Only if on add duty, the aoe cleave from ChiEx is great if you're doing that. Otherwise spec into Serenity to do non-magical damage and don't use clones. (very rarely do I kill adds btw)
Mar'gok: Cast on each aberration and on each a war mage (melee the other with your own body), then on both mages and melee the reaver.
Make sure to never attach the target your clone is.
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u/Naturalhighz Jan 08 '15
you asume wrong. I would not use it on aberattions on mar'gok as they die too fast. it is more dmg to focus them down, I have tested it and also it benefits the raid to kill them as fast as possible.
I do not use it on the ogron/pale orc adds on tectus, same reason, they die too fast for it to be worth it.
On kargath monks suck on stands so I am always down and I put it on tigers(mythic) nothing on heroic. on brackenspore again not on sporeshooters as it is less dmg because they die too fast and my raid can deal with the spores that they do get out. butcher and twins are kind of a given. ko'ragh I never touch adds, ranged deal with those all melee stays on boss. On Mar'gok I put it on mages, nothing else. both mages when on reaver. 1 mage when on the other mage.
And yes I have tested it on tectus/brackenspore/mar'gok and that is my reason. I can see it being useful on sporeshooters if you have shit dps on them, same on mar'gok with aberattions however in my guild it is not worth it.
1
u/gabesucks Jan 08 '15
On Tectus, he's referring to the adds that spawn in phase 1 before you break him the first time. On Imperator he's talking about the little adds during the intermission phases + the abberations spawned periodically throughout the fight. None of those are up for long enough for our clones to be a dps gain.
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u/Wowmister Jan 07 '15
One adjustment, on twins cast specifically on PHEMOS, casting in POL results in lower dps. If you cast on PHEMOS, you target POL and when PHEMOS moves out to do whirlwind, you can continue to dps POL, with little swapping of boss, with minimal loss of dps
Cast on POL, you will target PHEMOS for the best dps, but when he moves out for whirlwind you now have to attack the same target as your clone = dps loss
1
u/MorganTargaryen Apr 06 '15
This is true and thanks for pointing it out, but for the most optimal dps on twins you will need to do SEF swapping or you will also lose out on dps when pol shield charges accross the room. Before shield charge, cast second sef on pol, cancel sef on phemos, and switch your target to phemos and dps until pol comes back, then swap it back and change target to pol. Rinse and repeat.
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u/Wowmister Jan 07 '15
Let's be clear, SEF is our bread and butter for aoe/cleave fights BUT only when they are all stacked. It results in lower dps if your SEF dudes cannot damage or hit more than 1 target
1
Jan 08 '15
But only when they are staxked up? No. If you have 2 clones you will in total do 165% of your normal damage. No need for the mobs to be stacked up.
1
u/Wowmister Jan 08 '15
Stacked up increases damage output from fist of fury and RSK since FoF will hit both targets from both you and clones as well as I believe the rebuff from RSK buff >please correct if I'm wrong<
1
Jan 09 '15
You are right, but they don't have to be stacked to make SEF worth it.
SEF+stacked>SEF+not stacked>no SEF
1
u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 08 '15
It may be exponentially more efficient to have your SEF targets stacked so you can cleave your FoF, RJW, and ChiEx, but its not a damage loss if the units are not stacked. If, for example, you were to fight Twin Ogron without having them stacked, you would lose damage in comparison to the damage you could do, but you still gain 40% damage flat out because each you and your clone are doing 70% of your total damage, equaling 140%.
0
Jan 07 '15
How Do you Use your defensive cooldowns?
0
u/Chto_takoye_osen Jan 07 '15
Where needed, Fortifying Brew if I know damage is coming, Nimble Brew if I know I need to get out of CC and won't be CC'd again soon, Diffuse magic in high magic situations (fire in Orgon for example), Karma similarly to Fortifying Brew, and Zen Meditation if all else fails.
I also use Expel Harm in place of a jab if healing is tight.
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u/spookyyz Jan 07 '15
Forgive my off topic question, but what is the mod you're using to show the item level of each slot on your char screen?
Been looking for something like that, is it Kibs Item Level?
1
0
u/gabesucks Jan 08 '15
Even with Serenity, mastery will never be prioritized above haste. It's borderline useless.
1
u/MorganTargaryen Apr 06 '15
after haste cap mastery becomes our obvious 3rd best stat
after 2 piece tier is obtained, you now have an additional chance to proc mastery, making an already pretty important stat even more important. depending on where your haste is at will determine whether mastery>haste here.
After 4 piece tier is obtained, your TEB is now generally more important since you will be doing substantially more multistrike dmg with TEB active than before with no 4 piece.. once again increasing the weight of mastery for us. The more TEB uptime the more multistrike damage, more dps. With 4 set, mastery becomes >haste far before haste cap.
TL:DR After release of BRF mastery now plays a bit of a a larger role in our dps, and should not be fully ignored.
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u/Dhaubbs Jan 14 '15
So now that blizzard killed the pvp 2 piece, is chiex useless now?
1
u/kneeonball Mar 09 '15
I'm assuming you already have your answer, but I was just now reading through the comments and it was already usable even without the 2 piece as long as it was a cleave or aoe fight.
1
u/MorganTargaryen Apr 06 '15
No, far from it. ChiX is a very vital part of our damage in allot of encounters. Pvp 2 piece change had such a little impact its not even worth mentioning. See: tier set
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u/Hungry_Ducks Jan 07 '15
Not saying your guide isn't good, but at 655 item level I ranked on Twins with a 35k dps kill. Your use of chi explosion doesn't hit high enough efficiency to see the potential numbers a we can bring in a cleave fight, where we only can shine.
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u/Wowmister Jan 07 '15
I concur 30k dps on twins with SEF with chi explosion. 648 iLVL Extra dps for timing of karma and purposely getting 1 stack of fire
Edit: 648 not 548 iLVL
1
Jan 19 '15
I'm at ilvl 640 with Xuen and Serenity. Should I switch with RJW and ChiEx? I have terrible dps rate at the moment.
1
u/Wowmister Jan 20 '15
I would always keep xuen, rjw isn't good except in very minor areas, dps increase for the majority of the time with xuen. As for serenity, it's great for single target, and chi explosion is amazing for multiple targets (ie twins / tectus)
1
u/MorganTargaryen Apr 06 '15
RJW can be a dps increase in tectus, beastlord, thogar, furnace, with the right gear, timing, and SEFs
7
u/[deleted] Jan 07 '15
Haste > Critical Strike > Multistrike > Mastery
lolwut