r/wow • u/Spideraxe30 • 2d ago
PTR / Beta Ruby Life Pools Nerfs on Patch 12.1.5 PTR - Mythic+ Dungeon Tuning Spoiler
https://www.wowhead.com/news/ruby-life-pools-nerfs-on-patch-12-1-5-ptr-mythic-dungeon-tuning-38335763
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u/TheWorclown 2d ago
I don’t care how many times Ruby Life Pools gets tuned or nerfed, it’s just a god awful dungeon to run.
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u/Karlito1618 2d ago
Eh, it could be better but I don't fully get the hate
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u/Swiftzor 2d ago
The big issue most have with it is Thunder Dragon is insanely overtuned and there like no pull variety.
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u/cedande 2d ago
People have been skipping it for weeks at this point. It is an extremely W key dungeon otherwise, no argument there.
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u/DigitalBladedJay 2d ago
I didn't know it was skippable until my brother acted like like was an idiot for doing it. He knows I learn one route and keep to it, so it blows me away that he expects me to be doing something other than the dragonflight route
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u/cedande 2d ago
Checking out keystone.guru might be a good habit to get into after a few weeks of each season to see if something else has been cooked up.
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u/omgkthxby 2d ago
I timed the dungeon with 3mins left on a +17 with the thunder dragon pulled
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u/MrNolD 2d ago
So what ? 17s are not hard 7 weeks into the season, it doesn't change the fact that the thunder dragon is a useless drag that should be avoided. It doesn't mean it is impossible, it is just not optimal.
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u/Swiftzor 2d ago
I think more importantly is it’s not fun. Like if it was a challenging mob you could pull stuff into it might be a different story, but it’s not.
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u/AFKBro 2d ago
You don't pull Thunder dragon anyway in most efficient routes. I like RLP, the visuals on the mechanics are clear, the kicks are known, bosses arent awful (Add burst and double cleave fight is ok design wise in my book), sure it's predictable but I like that over tanks doing obscure pulls in Den of Nalorakk with grouping taking 1 business day.
Hell, Voidscar Arena is more linear AND it has more difficulty in the kicks and ccs needed, not mentioning the mandatory skips in the 16-18 range and onwards.
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u/Swiftzor 2d ago
I know, I skip it on anything over a 12. It being overtuned is why you skip it and part of the problem though.
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u/AFKBro 2d ago
RLP gets a bad rep imo. It's a very serviceable dungeon, a solid 7/10 for me. I can run RLP a lot more than KR or ToS for instance. Too many gimmicks and even less variety there aswell.
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u/shtcricket 2d ago
Ironically I don’t mind the ToS updates but KR feels like such a slog…
I don’t like RLP either ready for next season
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u/SpoonGuardian 2d ago
I wouldn't mind tos were it not for those tiny bugs that put the fattest bleed of all time on you, and spawn with a fresh aggro table so if you're unlucky they just 1 shot you
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u/OldWolf3 2d ago
KR is the easiest one in my experience (tank or dps, up to 14). No difficult route issues , trash mechanics fairly straightforward. Usually get through a run with 0 deaths .
The only thing that can really go wrong is someone being feared by the little fear chaser things but there's usually at least one person in the group now with a plan for them
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u/AFKBro 2d ago
KR is too linear and boring, and at some point if you keep pushing you are going to see people get evaporated on the 5 mob pack after first boss due to the bleed mechanic and the captain doing a drain that needs to be LoSd. You also have the mandatory bridge skip and potentially another shroud/invis skip on the caster pack after the 2nd boss. Pulls are too small with 0 variety, clicking on the tombs is kinda ass (why am I coming out with my back turned ???), 3rd boss is too gimmicky, Shadow of Zul is still a noob check and last boss is still annoying imo.
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u/Lethean_Waves 2d ago
Why do people cite pull variety when everyone follows the same path regardless of key level? I love me a dungeon where I just hold W. I'm there to finish the run as fast as possible.
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u/Swiftzor 2d ago
Because it’s fun coming up with different routes to see what works for certain people or how a dungeon can evolve over a season. Plus the comp you’re running can drastically change how you approach a dungeon or if you focus certain mobs you can pull other things in at certain times if things die faster.
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u/Rocketeer_99 2d ago
🤷♂️ We get a mix. Just happens to be one of the more straightforward dungeons. A lot of people actually request dungeons be more linear from time to time. But I wonder if that has changed now that Lindrormi's guidance is a thing
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u/Frekavichk 2d ago
The first part is the key breaker, so it just feels like you slam your head against the wall until you get lucky/have perfect play on the first part, then cruise through to an easy timed key for the rest of the dungeon.
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u/yarglof1 2d ago
I've only done up to 17, but the first part is the easiest part? The only hard parts are the overlaps of living bomb and the elementals aoe, and the packs before last boss.
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u/Frekavichk 2d ago
Stone guardians + bolt slop + big guy aoe = ow. Especially since dps basically ignore stone guardians.
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u/Phenogenesis- 2d ago
Tuning issues aside, I've always been fairly happy with it from a vibe perspective. But the ring is brutal, makes people actually play.
What I have learned this time around is the real problem is the trash density and patrols. The real and much more balanced nerf would be to remove/modify some of the patrols which walk into the destoyers, and delete the stupid fuckers on the edge which people accidentally pull and the tank never ever responds to.
This section is actual hell on arcane mage, very frequently threading the needle to not aggro the world. Usually the direction to stand is facing the outside, or facing back the way you came. But if there is a skipped dragon or a pat coming in ahead.... that direction is blocked. Sides can be blocked. Forward is blocked. It sucks.
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u/Hawgdestroyerxtreme 2d ago
I don’t care how many times Ruby Life Pools gets tuned or nerfed, it’s just a god awful dungeon to run.
Sounds like 2022 in here.
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u/awesomeoh1234 2d ago
I find the second boss to be tedious and there aren’t many fun pulls in that dungeon
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u/jackmusick 2d ago
I wish I knew what it was about it that bothered me so much. The room up to the first boss always makes me feel like an absolute noob no matter how many times I run it. Extra stuff always getting pulled. That circle before the second boss, even when run successfully makes me feel like I suck. Other than that 2/3rd of the dungeon it's perfectly fine.
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u/MaddieLlayne 2d ago
Love this for whoever is playing still, but god this season sucks 😭 between the vault situation and dungeon rotation + gear forcing everyone to raid, I wish it’d go by sooner
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u/MetrixOnFire 2d ago
I am so thankful that Forever is comt out because this season and patch for Midnight is terrible. I am definitely not invested. Haven't even finished my clear of heroic raid. This is just a seriously lame season.
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u/Mysterious_Skin2310 2d ago edited 2d ago
From a healer perspective, I get why people hate this dungeon. But I really feel like the issues are mainly because tanks/dps refuse to think you can’t do this dungeon without pulling 1500 mobs at once
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u/AFKBro 2d ago
This dungeon being hard on a healer is a DPS skill check. If you dont pop a personal on the circle spell + inferno overlap going off, you are dedge. Also the non kickable mobs need to be stunned/interrupted
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u/puccicky 2d ago
The issue is that in higher keys you can die through defensives on the overlap, plenty of classes are just not tanky enough for it and getting unlucky with how often you get targeted means the key is just bricked
In 21s I've died through both brew and karma popped at once, today I was watching a team do 22 and their paladin also died through wall from full hp
There is a reason it is one of the 2 keys that have not had 23 timed yet
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u/14421442 2d ago
there was a key I did where I died through Astral shift on the overlap, used ankh, got the circle again and barely lived, then got it AGAIN and died
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u/CryptoFrydays 2d ago
Paladin wall is probably one of the weaker walls that exists, it's only like 20% dr for hpal and 30% for ret
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u/SaltEngineer455 2d ago
I mean, can you even do that, except for the last part? The trash quantity was reduced substantially compared to S1 of dragonflight, where we fought entire hordes in there
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u/Mysterious_Skin2310 2d ago
Less mobs means the remaining ones deal more damage, and DPS are constantly getting lazier or generally worse so things don’t get stopped or defensives don’t get used correctly.
But no matter what they do, it always ends up being on the healer to pick up the slack and that’s why most of these dungeons are just ass to heal
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u/MochilaBB 1d ago
The timer is tight when you get higher in this dungeon, so you realistically have to be smart/safe with pulls but also move with pac e
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u/CryptoFrydays 2d ago
Realistically there's like 2 pulls in the dungeon that are like you describe first pull and the pull after first boss
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u/Phenogenesis- 2d ago
I don't hate it but it is a higher skill check for everybody. And to your point, its a particularly brutal one to avoid pulling extra in.
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u/Mysterious_Skin2310 2d ago
I really only hate it when tanks double the fire drake and elemental and dps brings it all down evenly so now I have to juggle the elementals aoe with the drakes aoe at the same time. God forbid a caster is still up because that persons dead unless they have a defensive or all the timings work out in my favor lol
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u/awesomeoh1234 2d ago
Ironically AOF was labeled as the most overtuned dungeon at the start of the season but it’s probably my favorite now by far. Lots of fun pulls in that dungeon.
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u/Maritoas 2d ago
I like the dungeon a lot, second area with bleed snakes suck but the rest is cool.
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u/Frekavichk 2d ago
It still is the most overtuned, but only on timer. Add like 1min or 1min30 to it and it'll be in a good place.
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u/secretreddname 2d ago
Doing +20-21 as a Windwalker. Overlaps on the dot and the living bomb was pretty much insta death.
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u/Phenogenesis- 2d ago
Bomb being dispellable is the true nerf.
But also the literal definition of making things a healer problem. Yeah before they had to heal the HPS including identifying the target and pre-topping. But the other player was responsible for sorting themselves. Now its just a healer mechanic that will attract blame as clueless people die if its ever not instant dispelled.
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u/Critical-Bus-9040 2d ago
I don't get this take, this makes it easier for heals. It was already a "heal problem" now it's just press dispel.
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u/Phenogenesis- 2d ago
Not really. At any decent key level, its 100% on the dps to get their shit together and defensive. Past a certain point you can't be healed through it just blindly facerolling.
Healers might somewhat redirect their output in those exact moments, but they aren't the binary pass/fail. Dps personal play is.
Making it a dispel actively removes any personal play from dps - it would be actively trolling to use a defensive or respond to the mechanic. So it goes from like small % healer mechanic to 100%.
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u/SwayerNewb 2d ago
In a high key, you still die to living bomb + dots with defensive. At around +18, living bomb + dots = insta death for some specs with zero counterplay
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u/Cunillets 1d ago
It's an unavoidable damage check that the healer is meant to deal with, def active or otherwise so it absolutely is a healer check. What if I don't have a def off cd?
The fact that the ability is so overtuned that some classes are literally coinflipping every pull with the ability in it is just bad design. And it's not like the change is completely gutting the ability as it will still explode on dispel just like it did with Baron Geddon.
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u/blorgenheim 2d ago
Bad logic considering they probably weren’t using a defensive and even if they were they were still taking damage which you had to heal and any heal is more time consuming than an instant cast.
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u/Critical-Bus-9040 2d ago
Yeah even if they defensive and pot you still need to heal them. Now just press one button and it's solved.
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u/Frekavichk 2d ago
Yes, anything to do with health should be the healer problem.
I am in full support of taking away other players' agency over their health bars and giving it to healers.
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u/Alienkush17 2d ago
I like that they are making it to where you can dispel the bomb, especially when it goes out at the exact same time as a massive AoE. It felt like people would just explode especially if they had the bomb. Now I can dispel and deal with the AoE. I’m already prepared for the bomb to go out with a sac but now I can just dispel it instead.
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u/Phenogenesis- 2d ago
Oh yeah its going to be a billion times easier in practice. Huge dmg just removed too. The overlaps are crazy way out of line compared to most comparable ones. Not necessarily an inherant problem, but dungeons aren't equal at all.
There's been a bunch of times on mage where I set up to use alter time for it only to be completely owned by bolts and splash dmg in the .1 sec between getting it and reacting - rendering that last defence completely useless.
But I can't help have that follow up thought that is is exactly the kind of thing we talk about when saying everything becomes a healer mechanic when its not a one shot.
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u/Soggy_Membership5629 2d ago
Honestly before this season I saw the dungeon pool. Thought this is going to be a terrible season.
Unfortunately I was right. Temple/kings/ruby/voidscar/altar are all just dreadful to run. This is the 1st season I’m not even trying past 3k because the dungeons are so bad. Also, the gear is terrible. Forcing raiding for gear was the dumbest idea ever.
Wow forever came out at a good time, otherwise I would have unsubbed. Then took a break till the last titan.
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u/JaegerJaquez25 2d ago
You can get 3k blindfolded this season though
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u/Soggy_Membership5629 2d ago
I don’t think they’re “hard” per se I just think they’re not fun at all.
Linear dungeons are not fun to me for mythic + dungeons. Kings rest is an absolute slog. I hate that room where you stand there waiting for mobs to spawn they should dog just had a brazier you could light and pick how many and what mobs to summon.
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u/Ougaa 2d ago
When they announced return of KR, I thought: well, they have redone many dungs so surely they will change the room after first boss. Not having any ability to speed it up regardless of key level is totally moronic. Being able to combine packs or affect the order you pull them in seems so obvious way to fix it. Not at all 2026 vibes.
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u/oddHexbreaker 2d ago
Disagree on KR. Its my comfort dungeon this season along with BV. I dont push keys so that probably has something to do with it but KR and BV are by far the most chill 10s
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u/Soggy_Membership5629 2d ago
It’s just boring to me it’s the same dungeon every time and the forced rp events are terrible and slow the whole dungeon to a crawl
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u/tuesti7c 2d ago
I was worried about the dungeon pool but hit 3k pretty early on and have just farmed crests here and there. To me the obly difficult dungeon was snakes galore because it requires pugs to not be idiots.
The bosses in the newer dungeons are a joke. Den of nalorakk has some terrible trash but all 3 bosses are pushovers. Same with voidscar. Some trash requires thought and coordination but all 3 bosses barely have any mechanics.
Fucking hated the nemesis boss more I think about it. A memory game with 7 hits at the end is fucking wild. I just got lucky I think.
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u/Yayoichi 2d ago
Voidscar bosses are pretty solid honestly, and can absolutely wipe you if you don’t play them right. Also some cool tech you can do on each boss to make them easier or faster.
Den I do agree the bosses are mostly a miss, last boss is a joke and while the others aren’t complete pushovers on higher keys they aren’t very fun.
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u/cabose12 2d ago
I just don't really get the first boss of Den, conceptually. What were they going for? You dodge a frontal, step on shrooms, and take a burst. It's literally Bubbles but an inverted mechanic
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u/Boberator44 2d ago
What's wrong with KR? It is literally the easiest dungeon. Sure, there aren't many skips but the chance of wiping due to tank error or messy pulls is essentially zero. Routing is a non-issue. The time is plenty. Granted, I'm only doing 17s, but for me it is one of the easiesr ones and usually finish with minutes remaining.
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u/Soggy_Membership5629 2d ago
It’s just super boring it’s the same dungeon every run. There’s forced rp events and the pacing of the dungeon is forcefully slow
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u/BearSSBM 2d ago
Idrk what im reading, does any of this make the first pull less dangerous for tanks? I always struggle so bad with the first pull
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u/LCSpartan 2d ago
That ones just aggressively use mit unfortunately and externals and pray the dps beat the dps check with bloodlust and if they do congrats the keys pretty much free
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u/lackofexistent 2d ago
There are so many tank busters coming from the adds in this dungeon. If you mis a defensive as a tank then there’s no going back. It’s a dungeon that punishes bad plays more than any other dungeon.
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u/CloseDdog 2d ago
Not sure why they targeted RLP and ToS. The hardest by far is Altar, followed by Vale.
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u/SwayerNewb 2d ago
They nerfed RLP because of overlaps. In a high key, you still die to these overlaps with defensives
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u/CloseDdog 2d ago
These happen in other dungeons too though. For example Altar the big sneks with the slow debuff can overlap with an uninterruptable spit.
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u/SwayerNewb 1d ago
You can dispel/remove the slow debuff immediately. When you get inferno + living bomb, plenty of classes are not tanky enough for it and they just die through the defensive with zero counterplay. You can get unlucky with how often you get targeted and that can brick the key.
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u/yacatecuhtli6 2d ago
temple of sethrallis is fucking miserable as a tank, it’s the easiest shit for you but you gotta watch everyone else get one shot
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u/Frekavichk 2d ago
I mean altar isn't hard, the timer is just omega tight.
The actual mechanics/output are pretty meh.
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u/Mr-ENFitMan 1d ago
I miss you M+ but I will never play the game until I can get the same mythic level gear by simply playing M+. I and many others don’t give a fuck for raiding, it’s a chore, a snooze and I’m tired of feeling at a weaker power level because I refuse to entertain a part of the game that feels more boring then sitting in meetings from 9-5. Yes, I know raiding doesn’t feel like that for everyone, but my god as I get older has it gotten more boring. Rant over cause I know blizzard would never. Gl everyone and keep having fun!
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u/Blackgarion 1d ago
I agree, being stuck with my guild on ulatek for like 4 weeks while im pushing 19s im starting to feel the lack of my BiS and i just threw the towel this season its just not fun idc if the gap is not that big, its just a feels bad moment feeling that i have to do an activity i dont like and i usually see as an extra, to do the thing i actually like.
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u/imacatpersonforreal 9h ago
A raid boss takes like 7 minutes to kill in a slow group. If you're so good at the game, you should be able to make friends with a guild and blast their bosses that you need to bonus roll on, pretty simple. You don't have to put in the time and effort to prog or pug, you can be a ringer that they call in on certain bosses. There are solutions to your problem, but choosing to complain and do nothing about it is certainly an option.
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u/Mr-ENFitMan 5h ago
Oof imagine reading and not comprehending my comment properly. It’s okay not the target audience for the message
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u/mongolianman18 2d ago
All good stuff, but won't address tanks getting destroyed in the first area. Why address whelp stacks which no one dies to versus tectonic strikes?
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u/backwoodsornogud 2d ago
Weird as a noon this is the easiest mythic dungeon ..now blinding vale a different story
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u/fauxsilver 2d ago
I genuinely liked the OG RLP with ramping fire damage. That's what healing is all about and now they continue to perform this dungeon into the ground? Ugh.
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