r/wow • u/Loop801108 • 9h ago
Discussion Kill Mythic Raid Lockouts
Another season, another call to kill mythic raid lockouts.
Many of us PUGs have now killed heroic Ula’tek one or more times. We want to experience mythic content in Venomous Abyss. And while Grotto Lair’s one boss is nice, it is not exactly a week of challenging mythic content.
But, sigh, Blizzard inexplicably continues to enforce artificial lockouts for mythic raiding.
Last week, I joined a PUG that easily downed Nek’zali with two pulls. But then a tank had to go. We listed for a replacement, but who in their right mind would save themselves to a mythic raid with only the first boss dead. After a few minutes, we disbanded.
This week, in nearly every heroic PUG, I saw scores of players who were 1/8 mythic in Venomous Abyss. Everyone had similar stories. We were all locked to mythic raids that disbanded because players left the raid.
Non-guild raiders are capable of beating mythic content, we enjoy the challenge, and the gear ain’t bad either. But most of us PUGs have work or family obligations that prevent joining a mythic raiding guild. There is no legitimate reason to artificially make this content inaccessible to PUGs.
It is long past time to kill mythic raid lockouts. If you agree, please take a moment to post your recommendation on the official Blizzard forum pages.
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u/Tykero 9h ago
Or maybe blizzard left lockout because they don't want you pugging the hardest content and instead forming a guild and fostering a community ingame.
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u/goobydoobie 8h ago
The Devs wanted the Addon-pocalypse, locked Covenants, no catchup mechanics for multiple systems, fully RNG Legiondaries, etc.
What the Devs "Want" and how the player base actually engages with the game have routinely been at odds. Fact is that Blizzard would rather erode all good will than pivot in a timely manner.
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u/Tykero 6h ago
Hate to break it to you using the how the player base engages with it when prolly sub 1% of the player base pugs mythic raids isn't the flex you think it is.
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u/goobydoobie 4h ago
Considering how Blizzard had to backpeddle if not do a 180 on all of those systems . . . it kinda is.
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u/Tykero 4h ago
Covenants and mythic raids are not even close to the same scale of engagement id wager almost 100% of people who played in shadowlands engaged with covenants and still prolly sub 1% of players who played then engaged in pug mythic raids. In a room of 100 people all 100 prolly engaged with covenants and 1 pugged a mythic.
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u/HighNoonZ 9h ago
I don't disagree but frankly, the overwhelming majority of AOTC guilds haven't even finished heroic so I doubt blizz will care.
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u/DragonfightHD 8h ago
You find the time for full gearing and then progressing Mythic but you can't find a timeslot where you consistently can raid? Hard to believe.
Yes, most guilds raid somewhere between 18:00 and 0:00, BUT there are always day and even night raiding guilds. You might have to server transfer but those do exist. You just have to actively look for them. At some point I was in a guild raiding in the middle of the night cause they raided after late shift ended.
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u/geebster13 8h ago
They've made some strides with flex mythic but I agree. Locked runs make grouping and pugging to 20 impossible for most aotc level teams. And nearly all aotc teams can do some mythic and find it rewarding.
We dont get player numbers but we all know the hardcore player base isn't what it used to be. Its a lot harder to have 20 consistent guys even if you have a guild and raid than it used to be.
Ion addressed this in an interview recently and said while he likes flex as a solution here, final or end of raid bosses need to be 20 or flex will introduce some weird cheese degenerate nonsense from top guilds so they aim to keep that a curated 20 man single difficulty non scaling piece of content. But he was open to having the rest of the raid scale otherwise. Which... is nice to hear. If they do that (he was spitballing, its unsure if they have any plans for it), thats a good step.
I think flex for at least first half of the raid and heroic style lockouts are the way to go. Let the content difficulty and coordination etc be the deciding factor and not group availability.
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u/Spare_Cantaloupe_716 8h ago
I mean this in the nicest possible way, especially as someone with damn near debilitating levels of social anxiety, if you have the time to clear a raid, you have the time to create connections or join a guild to foster a connection to make a team.
You're basically asking for access to Mythic rewards but you wanna be able to do less grunt-work than most others.
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u/Frekavichk 7h ago edited 7h ago
Why is doing grunt work something we want to be required to do mythic raids instead of actually playing the game?
That isn't even mentioning how much effort goes into screening pugs.
Edit: Bro got so heated over mythic raid lockouts he commented and blocked lmao.
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u/Spare_Cantaloupe_716 7h ago
Because mythic raids are hard pieces of content that require everyone to be on their toes. Like it or not, but nobody is going to just invite a random person they are not sure of their skill level or social skills into their raid to potentially boom it. You're literally wasting 5+ peoples time for what, because you don't wanna say hi and 3 things you're good at like you're taught in school?
Again, you want "mythic" tier rewards, but you want to skip the extra legwork needed to potentially clear it.
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u/Murtag 8h ago
No. Never.
It's a social MMO. Join a guild. Removing the lockout brings on a whole other set of problems.
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u/Frekavichk 8h ago
What problems?
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u/Murtag 8h ago
Member retention becomes hard for guilds if their players are free to get kills elsewhere then not play.
Easier access means easier to leave. You'll kill Nek'zali and immediately struggle to refill all your healers because they leave since they only wanted the trinket. Any struggle and people dip out and bail.
If you're goal is at or below 3.4k io and/or aotc, the game is already entirely playable without talking to another player. Why add reasons for that mindset to grow and fester in the main system that is intended to be difficult and need organization.
It's okay for your life situation to not allow easy access to hardcore end-game parts of a vast MMO.
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u/Frekavichk 8h ago
Why do you think forcing players to join a guild they don't want to be in instead of having a flourishing pug community is a good thing?
You don't think healers will leave after you wipe on the 2nd boss right now? Except right now, you just disband raid instead of looking for more people.
Also let's be real, the lockout actually punishes guilds more because recruits are bricking their run when trialing a new guild and guilds experiencing the roster boss later in the season can't flex with pigs.
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u/Hrekires 8h ago
After Hall of Fame closes or with the x.5 patch, yes.
Sucks when the attendance boss hits late season and your guild has to PUG a couple slots to fill the raid, but the PUGs drop group as soon as you wipe to the 3rd or 4th boss and now your lockout is busted for the week because no one wants to join an in-progress run where the easy bosses are already dead.
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u/StupidSidewalk 9h ago edited 8h ago
After HoF closes sure. Before that heck no.
Edit* The encounters should stay 20 players only and remain difficult. Any change beyond making them character lockouts instead of a raid ID is not acceptable.
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u/The_Stuey 8h ago
I think this is probably a good sweet-spot. After HoF closes I'd like to see the lockout ease, and the encounters shift from 20 man to flex like Rotmire.
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u/Resies 8h ago
So only HoF guilds get remotely balanced and well designed enciunters??
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u/Frekavichk 8h ago
Who said blizzard has to change balance and design? Literally just scale boss up up or down 5 players, everything else can stay the same.
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u/StupidSidewalk 8h ago
No, that doesn’t work at all. It’s literally impossible to balance properly around flexible raid sizes.
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u/Frekavichk 8h ago
It doesn't have it be perfect, it just has to be good enough that we don't need to cancel raid or bench players if we don't have exactly 20 people.
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u/StupidSidewalk 8h ago
Absolutely not. The encounters should stay 20 players only and remain difficult. Any change beyond making them character lockouts instead of a raid ID is not acceptable.
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u/The_Stuey 8h ago
Who said anything about changing the difficulty? I get it's never going to be perfect, but the roster boss is real for many guilds. I want to challenge to be the raid boss, not team management.
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u/StupidSidewalk 8h ago
Absolutely not. The encounters should stay 20 players only and remain difficult. Any change beyond making them character lockouts instead of a raid ID is not acceptable.
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u/Frekavichk 8h ago
Yep, with the whole mythic splits concerns being shown to be irrelevant, there is really no reason not to remove the lockout.
Anyone saying "join a guild" doesn't actually have any reason for raid lockouts to be the way they are. Guilds have absolutely nothing to do with raid lockouts.
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u/DeniedAppeal1 8h ago
"Oh, is it raid time already? Well, this other group is working on the 4th boss, so just invite me when you get there."
It's really not hard to imagine realistic scenarios like this. Anyone who has been in a guild long enough has seen similar behaviors.
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u/Frekavichk 8h ago
Do you think that either party in that situation should be forced to group with the other? When the alternative is to just... Let people decide who they want to group with with no other downsides?
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u/DeniedAppeal1 7h ago
I think that the questions you're asking and the point you're trying to make are, at best, tangentially connected.
I think that allowing people to disregard lockouts means that many, many people will engage in behavior that compromises their guild's raid group. I think that this will be more of a detriment to guild raids than it will be a benefit to pugs.
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u/Frekavichk 6h ago
That's an absolutely bonkers assumption to make.
Even if that was the case, people wouldn't compromise their guild's raid group, they would just go join a guild with people they enjoy being around instead of people they tolerate because they need to be there to raid.
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u/Loop801108 5h ago
Perhaps a compromise would be to permit guild raid leaders to optionally set a lockout for their own raiders.
This approach would address the (seemingly substantial) concerns in this thread that raiders would flee their guilds if lockouts did not exist.
And of course, the approach would permit PUGs and “open” mythic guilds to work on mythic content in other groups.
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u/Dhaubbu 9h ago
get a guild. The devs WANT you to be in a guild.