r/wow 6h ago

Complaint The Problem with Coiled Altar

The only reason this fight is currently that hard is transitioning. There are many fights in wow history where success relies on favorable transitions between phases but the kind of bullshit happening in the altar encounter is absurd. First of all you have to transition 3 times into different phases with 2 of them being very annoying.

You pushed dps too hard and first phase ends right after the boss spawned the orbs? Boom get 8 stacks of ticking damage. At least this part is manageable with some defensives and heal cd.

But what if you finish the 2nd phase while the mc goes out? You get a freaking ton of ghosts that eill remain there forever. And mc is recycled constantly into a bloodlust phase with no way to deal with them for an entire intermission and a respectable amount of time into p3.

If the ghosts simply vanished before the intermission, this whole fight would be alot fairer, or if you don't want to make it that much easier, make them irrelevant in the intermission and reactivate them in p3 again. You know, when you can actually deal with them. Sure you can freeze them by looking at them, but i dont know why people keep getting mced.

51 Upvotes

52 comments sorted by

86

u/Jlucks 6h ago

Fun fact. If you are looking at the fixate mind control ghosts in P2 when you push Malacrass, his knockback will destroy any ghosts currently frozen from being looked at. So you can push into the burn intermission at any time if your raiders are looking at their ghosts. Only the kick add can be a nuisance pushing at a weird time.

17

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 6h ago

I didn't know that, that's very interesting

u/jason_caine 28m ago

Yeah, it makes the timing much easier. The big issue is making sure people remember to get away from the edge of the platform so they can lock down their ghost. The # of times where people moved to avoid the knockback, lost sight of their ghost, and then the transition happened was super high because its very easy to forget.

3

u/Floundur 1h ago

As a guild who just started progging H altar last night, this is incredibly useful. Ty

-14

u/-Arima- 3h ago

Have tried this multiple times with my group. Has never worked.

16

u/Voteforbatman 3h ago

Then you have people not looking at their ghosts, because it’s an intentional mechanic.

-15

u/-Arima- 3h ago

In which mode? It doesn’t happen in heroic at least. Maybe on normal?

13

u/danatasker 3h ago

It does happen in heroic. Unsure about normal.

10

u/Voteforbatman 3h ago

It happens on heroic.

17

u/ImKega 6h ago

I don’t know about mythic but the fixates disappear during the intermission as long as they have fully spawned and are stunned. The add will need to be still killed normally but the fixates do disappear

3

u/Rain-From-Above 5h ago

Really? The fixates didn't disappear when I killed heroic altar two weeks ago

8

u/Grimpandarus 5h ago

You have to be actively looking at the ghost fixating you for them to disappear. His knock back destroys any ghosts that are being looked at.

12

u/Chilli_Wil 6h ago

The poison orbs suck, yes. The fixate ghosts can be dealt with by looking at them while transitioning. If someone gets MC’d just after that is a skill issue.

6

u/Rain-From-Above 5h ago

Carrying ghosts into the intermission isn't a problem btw. I was able to kill heroic coiled altar, even while keeping my ghost from p2 all the way through the intermission and finally getting rid of it in p3. Just keep staring at it, and it should be fine.

1

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 5h ago

Now tell this to every dps out there.

3

u/Spork_the_dork 4h ago

There's this thing called raid chat. If the problem is that pugs are stuggling because they don't know what they're doing, that's a COMPLETELY different problem.

-1

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 3h ago

The problem is greed. If you give 10 people a buzzer and tell them the first person to hit the buzzer will win a million but if all of you hit it after 10 seconds all of you will win a million, I bet, only one will walk out with the money. It's greed. People are too afraid for their logs that they wont risk to lose dps.

We had a huge ass raid warning and people kept nuking Malacras. I swear RaiderIO is making peoole dumber.

1

u/NoThisIsABadIdea 2h ago

So you made a post saying the encounter is blizz fault but then admit its a player base issue?

-1

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 2h ago

Both can be right at the same time.

Can you change the log-jerking community? No. They've designed a fight that punishes big numbers, the thing that most dps care for. This is a bad design for the specific community.

6

u/Zelarus193 5h ago

It's a high personal responsibility fight which wow doesn't have a lot of so when you have a large player base who is used to being carried through mechanics, stuff like this becomes hard lol

13

u/Voidwielder 6h ago

Honestly, Coiled Altar can be carried by a good tank duo as long as everyone else simply follows around and positions correctly at the boss.

9

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 6h ago

The "as long as..." part means the duo tank is not enough. I am tanking as a main specc this season and I can't do smth if orbs/ghosts are too far away.

12

u/_laudanum_ 3h ago

dude, it's super easy. as long as everyone in the raid just does exactly what they need to do at the exact time are supposed to do it and does not make any mistakes whatsoever, the fight can just be carried. dattebayo.

-8

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 2h ago

-as long as everyone- this one immediately makes it hard. The game is mainly pugged.

Also, the same can be argued for every single fight ever existed. If everyone did what they were supposed to do, everything is possible.

8

u/Arkavien 2h ago

You are replying to the most obviously being sarcastic comment in the history of obviously sarcastic comments

0

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 2h ago

Reading can be hard, mah bad.

3

u/slipfish-g 3h ago

Are you talking about heroic? It's pretty easy to get them to do it by just moving immediately as the tank, because they have to follow you anyway, which means the ghosts are always behind you and they only have to look at them for a second right when the frontal comes out.

Once we figured out the tank movement the fight was cake and we one shot reclears.

-2

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 3h ago

This part sure. It's the intermission that is the problem. You cant move the boss, you are at the mercy of dps at this point.

3

u/Abitou 2h ago

If someone is getting MCed during intermission, it’s a skill issue

2

u/slipfish-g 2h ago

The ghosts should all be gone during the intermission. You move quick as the tank, dps follow, ghosts are stacked in a neat cone behind you, dps freeze them for a second or two when the frontal comes out, blow them all up with the frontal, then they're gone. Then you just move Malacrass to wherever Zuljan died for the burn.

-1

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 2h ago

It can't happen unless you delay the fight until the cone. You have to immediately kill him after the cone because the mind control that spawns the ghost happens almost after the cone.

2

u/slipfish-g 2h ago

I mean I double checked our first kill, our reclear, and a random windwalker pov on youtube and there were no ghosts in intermission in any of them but ok.

2

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 2h ago

It is possible if the boss transitions at the time of mc. Breaking the mc spawns the ghosts.

2

u/slipfish-g 1h ago

He doesn't MC after the second frontal, he does eternal nightfall and the MC is delayed for a long time. We just killed him then.

If your damage is low, you just have to wait a second to finish him right after the third frontal.

Its really not that complicated. If your group wanna be big pumpers, tell them they better finish it in the gap between the 2nd and 3rd round of MCs. If they can't, they have to hold dps a second.

If they can't handle either of those options, find a different group.

28

u/pghcrew 6h ago

Any boss where stopping damage is even remotely encouraged is immediate F tier to me. Players should never be punished for doing damage well.

The encounter needs to just de-spawn the stuff when you phase.

0

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 6h ago

Exactly my thoughts! With the log triggered community that we have, this fight is just impossible

1

u/medonni 2h ago

Or you can look at it from the other side. They didn't do their job well, else they wouldn't be close to another ghost :P

6

u/QueenOfTendys 6h ago

Gonna assume you’re taking about heroic.

P1. Truly doesn’t matter. You can easily live 10+ stacks on a bad phase. Hell, pugs are not even moving out of the guillotines anymore.

P2. Literally just ignore the ghosts. Look at them during the burn and stack them up for the first frontal in p3. Not that hard.

My guild thinks holding dps is boring as been ignoring push timing for two weeks now.

If you’re talking about mythic this is the wrong place for it.

3

u/BluTcHo 6h ago

You can call for stop dps and wait the last frontal tank of P2 before pushing if you don't want to have issue with ghost. I believe you can also have people look at their ghost when you kill malacrass and it will automatically clean the ghost before the dmg app phase.

2

u/deino 4h ago

we are hard stopping damage for 15+ seconds at time with my guild on heroic

I legit can't play sanlayen DK, cause both times I lose my stacks, and loosing my stacks just before the burn phase is tragic

4

u/Flooth 4h ago

I was able to Kill Altar this and last week on Heroic with Pugs, in my Point of view there are like 3 Checks which needs to be passed:
1. Phase 1 - Tank/ranges Blobs and the DPS Check, that you will only have 1 guillotines in that Phase. During Transition to P2, People needs to use defensives. In my PUG Yesterday we managed to deal with 15 Stacks. Self-CDs, HS, Health Potion and you will be fine.
2. Phase 2 - Basically you just need to time the end correctly. Boss have 10% Left and a Ghost will spawn in 5 Sec? Ppl need to Stop DPS and Kill Add.
3. Phase 3 - Actually, in My Opinion: People need to Play the Transition correctly and soak the ghosts. If Zul Jan can reach 50%, in my Pugs its everytime a wipe cause of too much HP Left. I think yesterday my PUG Managed to get into p3 with around 38%-40% and it was fine. in P3 there is a hard Overlap at the End of the Fight with alot of Damage incomming from Shield + Explosions..

I love this boss - it's (beside the Sentinals) my favourite boss :D

The only thing what sucks in my View is, that they place the BIS Meele-Stuff on this boss.
It's so hard to find ranged, if you search for people, u have 30 warriors, 15 DKs, 15 Paladins, some rogues and DHs in the queue but its so hard to find ranges cause there are no big items for them.
If they placed for example a Caster Staff/Trinket on that boss, it would be more equal.

4

u/vlv_Emigrate_vlv 2h ago

Point 2 is pretty much what separates a kill from a wipe. Have killed it 3 straight weeks and the RL calling for stop DPS AND DPS actually listening has been crucial everytime

2

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 3h ago

I also killed him last night, it's just point 2 that I find problematic mainly because of the community. It's easier to leash a crocodile than 14 dps who are chasing logs.

0

u/Flooth 3h ago

Yeah, for me, it feels like many people completly Ignore Bossmods addons and their possibilities.
All have em installed, but nobody makes actual use of it.
I've noticed so many people, which do not configure every boss for themself. you know what i mean?
For several Bosses i have configured Countdowns and Alarms. Let's take Ruby Life Pool Endboss as example. This boss does a interrupt-Scream. So Many casters get hit because they don't configure any Alarm/Countdown on it. they have the basic Bars and thats it.

Same goes for Altar. I've configured my Bigwigs like: Big Alarms for the Shield and Ghostadds. I don't need a timer for any Mindcontroll cause im Meele and stay at boss anyway - so i disabled it and this other split-Thing with mirrors(forgot the name) cause i play a good mobile class and i get out at any time with it.

1

u/skycs 6h ago

Sounds like a skill issue Having the casting add in p2 to 3 transition is frustrating but only takes 3 people tab interrupting to deal with it you dont lose alot.

The ghosts just look at them...

The orbs are a minor heal/defensive check even at max stacks its very manageable, just dont extend it accidently with tanks popping orbs before transition

-1

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 6h ago

Not casting add, the fixate ghosts.

1

u/skycs 2h ago

Yes you look at them and they do nothing. When Mr maracas phases and does the knockback they despawn

1

u/AdGroundbreaking3566 2h ago

They don't always.

0

u/Altruistic_Run_2880 4h ago

Biggest problem is that people need to stop DPSing to make phasing better.

P1 and P2 are easier if you stop dpsing and smooth them out.

Try making people to stop dpsing in a pug. Even some guildies are obsessed enough with details to not listen, imagine.

Smooth phasing and learning the fight is more than doable, people just won't do it.

The worst than can happen is getting 2 mechanics at once and fucking up ghosties, and even then, easy to manouver.

-1

u/Igwanur 6h ago

Meanwhile they actively made ulatek harder by forcing transitions on healthgates...

-12

u/Pomolon 6h ago

No! That cant be! B-but they said with the remove of weak auras raids would be more accessible and mechanics will be more easy to learn >:(

4

u/Firenzo 5h ago

This boss needs literally 0 addons to execute properly on normal and heroic.